What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Le Junk]

1,. Thanks for proving it is reagent ( 3 M's) only and not definitive with regard to substance or mg content -- with Marquis, mecke, and mandelin reagent tests -- you CANNOT exclude PIPERAZINES as a component== period, nor can you distinguish between MDA and MDMA or MDEA and MDMA ( you need a simon's or Froedhe test)

Using these 3 reagents only -- there is no way to definitively say it is ONLY MDMA or even ONLY MDXX


2. High 2 days later makes one think it is MDA plus some unreactive compound -- which it COULD BE because MDA and MDMA will have the exact same profile with Marquis, Mecke, and Mandelin

3. British Columbia is the source of the majority of US MDMA

4. The BLACK result versus purple plus the length of effect makes one think it could be 5-APB or 6-APB as well as MDXX

It's not just 3 reagent testing. It's full GC/MS testing which will identify all substances. GC/MS will separate MDMA from MDA from MDE etc. The only difference in testing between US pills and European pills on edata is the listing of mgs of each substance. But the full GC/MS testing is done on all samples. They additionally test with the 3 reagents, but always use GC/MS as well.

 

[consumer]

I give up on this thread. Shugenja and his aggressive closed mind has killed any reasonable discussion. Clearly anything but what he says is incorrect. / leaves thread

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's not just 3 reagent testing. It's full GC/MS testing which will identify all substances. GC/MS will separate MDMA from MDA from MDE etc. The only difference in testing between US pills and European pills on edata is the listing of mgs of each substance. But the full GC/MS testing is done on all samples. They additionally test with the 3 reagents, but always use GC/MS as well.

I stand corrected on the GCMS -- after realizing how the data was presented

 

[Jabberwocky]

I give up on this thread. Shugenja and his aggressive closed mind has killed any reasonable discussion. Clearly anything but what he says is incorrect. / leaves thread

I stand corrected on the GCMS - after realizing how the data was presented

 

[Jabberwocky]

I know there's no mention of mgs with regards to US pills, but the fact I was literally still high 2 days later tells me the mgs are high.


Le Junk

WHich means it's not the r-isomer

so all the BS about different MDMA is exactly that BS

if it was all MDMA it would be 359 mg

if half was binder -- 180 mg

regardless 2 days from ~200 mg = bomb ass E -- not bunk r-isomer

 

[consumer]

Why is this funny?

 

[Le Junk]

WHich means it's not the r-isomer

so all the BS about different MDMA is exactly that BS

if it was all MDMA it would be 359 mg

if half was binder -- 180 mg

regardless 2 days from ~200 mg = bomb ass E -- not bunk r-isomer

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree then. If the lab tested MDMA I'm taking is pretty much free of love and empathy, has a horrible comedown with a crackhead afterglow, I'm saying the MDMA I'm taking is made incorrectly. Whether it's the r isomer or whatever. Something is definitely wrong.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Perhaps some clarity said it before saying it again. The OP and subsequent posters don't say all MDMA is now different. We say some or at least the majority of pressed pills that are theoretically European origin are off.

GCMS lets get things straight. It's not foolproof. It only searches for what is in the data bank not what maybe in the pill / powder.

What we are all trying to work out is why?

Price has dropped FACT
Dosages have gone through the stratosphere FACT
Tests show MDMA by reagent and GCMS
Some refuse the racemic argument, the only theory

I'm happy for shugenja they have maintained there quality. I'd ask have they tried a euro yet?

What we do see purely as anecdotal is reagent difference between pills and powder tested as MDMA GCMS. I'd welcome thought on why a marquis can and does go so many different colours from GCMS tested product as clearly no one here has access or able to perform anything else without putting faith in a GCMS by third party.

Who knows? could be that if I were a large scale manufacturer I'd have my own GCMS and be designing my "drug" to pass. It's human nature to find a way to beat the test. More so when millions of dollars are involved. Ever heard the term designer drugs?

Brits flapping in toilets? FUBAR.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree then. If the lab tested MDMA I'm taking is pretty much free of love and empathy, has a horrible comedown with a crackhead afterglow, I'm saying the MDMA I'm taking is made incorrectly. Whether it's the r isomer or whatever. Something is definitely wrong.

Taking 200+ mg (or more) of MDMA is known result in a much more stimulant like effect and much less empathy, as well as significant comedown.

Take into account the metabolic differences post 45 (seriously it has an impact) and it can easily account for your experience.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

shugenja thinks that mechanistic organic chemistry, subjective drug effects, and pharmacology are all concrete black and white things that can be easily understood and predicted by things he cut and pastes from the internet.

I'm not going to predict for you want glycidic impurities could be complexing with reduction catalyst or the reaction substrate. You cannot predict such things based on pushing arrows and reading phrases from chemistry articles....you seem to think that chemistry is that simple and predictable,,,you are severely mistaken.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree then. If the lab tested MDMA I'm taking is pretty much free of love and empathy, has a horrible comedown with a crackhead afterglow, I'm saying the MDMA I'm taking is made incorrectly. Whether it's the r isomer or whatever. Something is definitely wrong.

have you read the last two pages of this thread? I don't think he's capable of even agreeing on the fact that you both disagree

 

[TruthSeeking]

I really enjoy this thread even amidst the bickering and disagreements between the major contributors. My science and chemistry knowledge is sub-basic although have had hundreds of conversations with many consistent users of current products and it seems to affect everyone much differently. Most do not even understand the differences nor really care (IE: EDC 2016 experiences walking around every day at the festival noticing over half of the crowds seemed very zombie-esque and even my own tribe looked very zoned out and anti-social).

I'm sure you all have read this article many times before but I thought it was rather interesting and always makes me laugh outloud while reading. I hope someday we are able to recreate this era of supposed never ending nirvana.

https://www.playboy.com/articles/ecstasy-was-legal-in-1984-and-it-was-glorious

 

[Jabberwocky]

shugenja thinks that mechanistic organic chemistry, subjective drug effects, and pharmacology are all concrete black and white things that can be easily understood and predicted by things he cut and pastes from the internet.

I'm not going to predict for you want glycidic impurities could be complexing with reduction catalyst or the reaction substrate. You cannot predict such things based on pushing arrows and reading phrases from chemistry articles....you seem to think that chemistry is that simple and predictable,,,you are severely mistaken.

Chemistry is a deterministic, discrete, science -- if you state otherwise - you are a fool. NaOH + HCl in the proper molar fractions will always = Salt water and never equal something else

Elements can only form compounds according to a finite set of reactions, in a finite set of combinations.

This is not a point open for discussion, it is settled science.

 

[Jabberwocky]

have you read the last two pages of this thread? I don't think he's capable of even agreeing on the fact that you both disagree

Man up and propose an actual catalytic reaction and reaction product that will skew the isomeric ratio from any non-explosive MDMA synthesis.

All this BS about isomeric ratios.

It's more likely someone got ahold of r-MDA (which has a published, reasonably trivial synth) and used it as the base for MDMA synthesis -- resulting in r-MDMA -- but even that is really unlikely as the MDA itself could easily be sold.

 

[Jabberwocky]

shugenja thinks that mechanistic organic chemistry, subjective drug effects, and pharmacology are all concrete black and white things that can be easily understood and predicted by things he cut and pastes from the internet.

I'm not going to predict for you want glycidic impurities could be complexing with reduction catalyst or the reaction substrate. You cannot predict such things based on pushing arrows and reading phrases from chemistry articles....you seem to think that chemistry is that simple and predictable,,,you are severely mistaken.

Why not?

You have a methylenedioxy phenyl-acetone substrate, and only a short list of catalysts that won't explosively react with methylamine, nitromethane, and/or ammonia.

possible epoxide, possible carboxylate, and possible alcohol reactions are well documented for all metals -- it's not theoretical

oxygen and hydrogen affinities are well defined and documented for every species that could evolve

stop playing dumb -- you know I'm correct

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Man up and propose an actual catalytic reaction and reaction product that will skew the isomeric ratio from any non-explosive MDMA synthesis.

you think that all of mechanistic organic chemistry can be known and predicted by pushing arrows and applying chemical theory....

I am saying I believe that things can happen during chemical reactions that people were not expecting.


I wonder why people even try doing chemistry if everything can be known and predicted beforehand. They should probably shut down all research labs and just have shugenja tell them whether or not a reaction is possible

 

[Jabberwocky]

you think that all of mechanistic organic chemistry can be known and predicted by pushing arrows and applying chemical theory....

I am saying I believe that things can happen during chemical reactions that people were not expecting.


I wonder why people even try doing chemistry if everything can be known and predicted beforehand. They should probably shut down all research labs and just have shugenja tell them whether or not a reaction is possible

Propose something that could happen from your proposed substrate(s), catalyst(s), and other compounds.

Seriously -- falsify my argument -- that's what science is about.

The issue here is that

1. There are not that many catalysts that will support the MDP2P - MDMA process, that have a reasonable yield (hell there are not that many period) -- these "clandestine yahoos" who according to you cant decant and use filter paper, wouldn't stray from known synths for fear of losing all that precious MDP2P.

2. People perform synthesis -- because they know what is going to happen -- see#1 nobody is doing experimental chemistry -- they are using known synths

3. I'm still waiting for an example of a minor contaminant forcing all molecules in a solution toward one stereo-isomer (in a catalytic reaction they cannot actually be part of), instead of the molar fraction of the reaction relative to the contaminant -- if an epoxide or carboxylate bonds to the metal -- it can't catalyze the reaction between MDP2P and methylamine

 

[LucidSDreamr]

any O lone pair of pmk/glycidate derived material....donating into an empty metal d orbital during the reduction step of the reductive amination,

if you don't believe that an O lone pair can donate into an empty d orbital of a metal....I don't know what else to say to you. I'm not going to propose the exact structure of a catalytic intermediate because its FACT of chemistry that you cannot prove any mechaism....only disprove mechanisms...therefore its on you to disprove why this isn't a possibility....not up to me to prove an exact mechanism and intermediates.

again...call all mechanistic research labs and tell them to shutdown since there is no point to researching mechanisms since everything has a limited number of possibilities...all predictable based on textbooks and chemical theory

 

[Jabberwocky]

any O lone pair of pmk/glycidate derived material....donating into an empty metal d orbital during the reduction step of the reductive amination,

if you don't believe that an O lone pair can donate into an empty d orbital of a metal....I don't know what else to say to you. I'm not going to propose the exact structure of a catalytic intermediate because its FACT of chemistry that you cannot prove any mechaism....only disprove mechanisms...therefore its on you to disprove why this isn't a possibility....not up to me to prove an exact mechanism and intermediates.

again...call all mechanistic research labs and tell them to shutdown since there is no point to researching mechanisms since everything has a limited number of possibilities...all predictable based on textbooks and chemical theory

Lithium Oxide -- if formed would bubble out of solution -- it's ground state is a gas
Mercuric oxide -- a solid which decomposes quickly back to Hg and O2
Aluminum Oxide - an inert solid
Cupric Oxide CuO and Cu2O are stable -- other Cu oxide decompose back to CU and O2
Nickel Oxide -- won't happen below 400 celsius (only happens above 400C)
Platinum Oxide -- that's the actual catalyst is an obscure synthesis (Adam's catalyst) -- so the extra oxygen -- hopefully evolves out, forms a stable bond, or or Boom!


Do you want me to go through the epoxides and the carboxylates also

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I'm talking about the reductive amination step.....delivery of hydride to the imminium. lots of Rh and Ir catalysts than can accept LP electrons, please name every Rh Ir known in the scientific literature and all other known reductive ammination catalysts and please describe why they cannot accept LP electrons from oxygen.