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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

The UK in the EU: "Brexit"

Dracarys said:
The UK is at the moment, also in this perspective, somewhere in between america and Mainland europe. Without the EU it's likely going to be more like america. Because 1-this has Always been the REAL reason for tory brexit support, 2-stuff like the NHS costs money. For big international firms, a high tax zone with acces to 62 million (or less if the scots decide to leave, or rather, to stay) consumers is a less atractive place to do busines than a high tax zone with acces to 450 million. So to keep the economy afloat, the tories have the will AND the economic arguments to make this reagonomic nightmare real.
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Are you on with that conspiracy crap,again ?
 
MMT said:
Are you on with that conspiracy crap,again ?
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1-the tories, and especially your hero Boris, openly SAY this stuff. More markets, less regulation, calling the EU socialist. So i'm not speculating about anyone's motive here. 2-it's just economic's chap. NHS, welfare, labour-rights and all that socialist jazz... it costs money. When given acces to a 500 million consumer market, it's an investment. When given acces to a mere 62 million consumers only, it's a loss.
 
Bagseed said:
yet you are absolutely against your country helping refugees.
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That is a completely different topic matter, and worded incorrectly too. I'm not against helping refugees and your polar thinking is trite; I'm against allowing a mass influx of unscreened economic migrants into our nation from a culture that is wholly incompatible with our own. We help those in need, which we do plenty of. Anyway, different topic.

Bagseed said:
That is where this is going. Chances are it will be so gradual that you will be in the same boat as americans, waking up clutching a gun in a home you cannot afford, working a job that doesn't pay the bills while you wonder where all the unions went.
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You obviously don't live in the UK do you. It's like that now, minus the guns. I live in London and the property prices are absolutely insane. Cost of living has gone up tremendously in the past 10 years, especially for those at the bottom of the ladder. This has been decades in the making and it's called globalization, something the people who run the EU and its chums champion tremendously. Those big corporations you talk about.. love the EU. They love those with power and ability to be manipulated to apply it for their own benefit, whether in Westminster or the EU. That's corporations for you.

And to Dracayrs.. again, globalization has been decades in the making. And, again, some of its biggest champions are those who love the EU. Like Tony Blair for example, and all those who mirror his morally deficient liberal attitude to life (which seems to be the majority of the Labour and Conservative parties). Globalization is a connected to the subject of Brexit but it's not intrinsic - a very real problem, but to say either way remaining or leaving will make it worse.. greed is greed, and we all have a real problem with it in the West, which is ultimately what sustains globalization (which is just a code word for rampant consumerism based on no moral obligation beyond the self)
 
So, out of interest, whose unregulated political power has favoured/caused globalisation to a greater extent in the past - the left or the right?
 
-=SS=- said:
That is a completely different topic matter, and worded incorrectly too. I'm not against helping refugees and your polar thinking is trite; I'm against allowing a mass influx of unscreened economic migrants into our nation from a culture that is wholly incompatible with our own. We help those in need, which we do plenty of. Anyway, different topic.



You obviously don't live in the UK do you. It's like that now, minus the guns. I live in London and the property prices are absolutely insane. Cost of living has gone up tremendously in the past 10 years, especially for those at the bottom of the ladder. This has been decades in the making and it's called globalization, something the people who run the EU and its chums champion tremendously. Those big corporations you talk about.. love the EU. They love those with power and ability to be manipulated to apply it for their own benefit, whether in Westminster or the EU. That's corporations for you.

And to Dracayrs.. again, globalization has been decades in the making. And, again, some of its biggest champions are those who love the EU. Like Tony Blair for example, and all those who mirror his morally deficient liberal attitude to life (which seems to be the majority of the Labour and Conservative parties). Globalization is a connected to the subject of Brexit but it's not intrinsic - a very real problem, but to say either way remaining or leaving will make it worse.. greed is greed, and we all have a real problem with it in the West, which is ultimately what sustains globalization (which is just a code word for rampant consumerism based on no moral obligation beyond the self)
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Wow,you nailed it.
 
I would say that they are in some way responsive to one another. Currently, it is the left.

I don't think I fully grasp currently what globalization is. I think it's basically wanting to include the entire world, into the sphere, that can be influenced, and is of influence. It's wanting to sell to all markets. It's setting up regulations to make that go as smoothly as possible. The desire isn't diabolical, but it can have negative consequences on areas. The left would do this under "peace", but at the same time, might go to extremes to get what it wants. The left plays into interests of big business currently, and big banks. The right might try it's own kind of globalization, as it gains power, and expands. Although Nazi is really closer to the left, in some sense, people associate it with the right, and left and right have meant different things at different times, viewed differently... But Nazis wanted to expand, at least to a certain degree. Communism wanted to expand everywhere. By it's nature, as it has been explained to me, it would have to. It is "globalist", in a different way.

The above paragraph probably contains a lot of wrong.
 
I was not asking about "power" and "greed".

To reword the question, lack of sustainable development has been, to a greater extent, an outcome of political practices of either the left or the right.

Which of these, in your opinion, has most likely caused this reduction in fair trade, environmental conservation, and human rights?
 
"right". I listen to a lot of what would now be considered right wing, and some of the things they say make me step back. I'm with them a lot of the way, but when they complain about energy saving things, or water saving things, or make a mockery of climate change...I understand the ice ages and how there used to be a land bridge between Alaska and Asia, before SUVs - but that doesn't mean we operate with reckless abandon. These things are where I differ from often right-wingers, and libertarian right. There are other things, but I can certainly see the right discriminating based on certain things like race, gender, etc., before the left openly will.

I know you aren't asking me, though.
 
Vagina Lover said:
So, out of interest, whose unregulated political power has favoured/caused globalisation to a greater extent in the past - the left or the right?
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Elements in both left and right. That's the only truthful answer - greed and lust know no boundary, and tempt all men. The right seems to be burdened with a projected bad reputation, I don't know when that started but it certainly seems to have gained real traction in the last 10 years when I've been paying attention to politics. But the left is actually as voracious and contemptible as they make the right out to be, that's the irony of the situation. There's this snide assertion that if you're right wing you're a heartless brute, no wisdom, and I will admit I was guilty of holding this to be true not so long ago. I didn't even question it, and I don't know exactly where I picked it up.. no one told me to think it, but it certainly permeated my mind. Wider culture is my guess as to where it came from.

The thing is both left and right have qualities that are needed for a healthy and balanced governmental system, and thinking in the population. A certain amount of tension is required for progress. Balance and equilibrium, which we have right now albeit a fake one, is not healthy. Just listen to our Parliament "argue". They all sing the same tune. They've all become corrupted by greed. Therein lies the answer to your question. Something has happened in the 20th century which has reduced men who used to argue in our Parliament, passionately but with respect and in aim of progress, to cheap hollow shells who preach many things but all lack moral fibre and real conviction. They've become master orators, helped by speech writers and coaches, promoted with helpful TV coverage and clever media editing.

It's amazing to watch history unfold right now.. a huge chunk of the population has been infected with a certain liberal ideology and they don't even realize it. I certainly didn't. I would be far more concerned about that mass than anyone on the right or far-right. Unfortunately those who are hypnotized can't see it, obviously. Slight rant, but hopefully some food for thought.
 
Wow a thoughtful and balanced perspective. Nice.

History is rife with such situations as we are in now. The outcome is always the same. Humans are mostly the same and on an emotional level there has been no real changes in the species in recorded history. So expecting a different outcome is pretty unrealistic IMO. So relax and watch the show and have your fiddle ready. Rome WILL burn. The only difference I see is that now it's a global village. So it might all burn.
 
-=SS=- said:
Doesn't bother me as I don't demand foreign holidays every 3 months like a good middle class earner. We will adapt. Maybe become a bit less.. selfish? Maybe.
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This is on a par with the most thick-as-shit comment I've heard since the vote which was "Why should I be bothered about the pound? I don't want to leave England anyway." And yes, they said England. Like Wales has the fucking dollar or something.

Your comment is either plain snide or disingenuous in the extreme. One of the most tangible, easily measurable positive benefits of a growing economy has been, since the 1970's, the affordability of travel to the working class. It is the working class who will be hit by a 10% and rising fall in the pound. The middle class will see it as a hindrance. The working class as a crippling handicap. You are either some snide middle class wanker hating on the working class (in the name of patriotism) or some deluded prole (and I use the word advisedly) who can't see the benefit of travel being given the chance to broaden the mind.

I'm betting on the former as you 'alluded' to some city job out of nowhere recently. For years you've been a student haven't you? Make up your mind. Are you a 'good middle class earner' or just...a liar.
 
Traveling is a luxury that everyone now seems to take for granted. I'm quite content with going somewhere once every few years, working and saving for it. I couldn't give a toss about the inconvenience of increased travel prices or inconvenience of border checks or VISAs. You know back in the day people used to road trip it or do a simple holiday in this country, not this budget airfare travel wankery to a different place every 3 months to "enrich their mind". Give me a break. If you can't enrich your mind at home no amount of travel is going to make a difference to your rotten perspective. My grandparents used to take a caravan and trek it from Devon to the mountains in Italy, camp out and just enjoy the scene. How many people do that now, and not just airline it somewhere, eat fine food and do "cultural" things. Fuck off. It takes more than a week or two to even begin to understand a place.

I was a student, now I'm employed in my field. If you had been able to grasp by now that I don't give a fuck about what anyone thinks of me then you would know that why would I bother lying to you.
 
yep. other people should absolutely live by your rules and make the same choices as you. the absolute nerve of somebody even considering making a different choice than you!

alasdair
 
-=SS=- said:
Doesn't bother me as I don't demand foreign holidays every 3 months like a good middle class earner. We will adapt. Maybe become a bit less.. selfish? Maybe.
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LOL. Missed the point.

It's not about vacations. It's about where people are putting their money. Talk is cheap. When people are throwing cash at a problem, they tend to think more about it.

Both the EU and the GBP are down. But the GBP is down farther than the EU. People have less faith in the economy of the UK than the EU.
 
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