The UK in the EU: "Brexit"

[Deleted member 210577]

One of the precepts of critical thinking, as you alluded to, is to alter one's views and opinions as new evidence comes to light.

Would you, then, agree with the fact that it may not have been a good idea to vote for Britain to exit the European Union?

Depends on what you mean by good idea, in what context. If you're talking short-term economic impact, then yes I would agree it is a bad idea to brexit, though I understood this risk and believe it is worth it.. hell, even long term economic impact is a price worth paying to preserve democracy and sovereignty! Money doesn't bleed like people do. So we take a hit to our standard of living.. big woop.. we live like fucking kings anyway, even those who live with very little.

But beyond the economics what argument are you referring to? That's the only one I see that has actual merit to it.

SS why are you suddenly hiding your man-love for Peter Hitchens? If there's one person I've seen you quote more than anyone on here it's him. So now, when asked for a source or an inspiration, why so quiet on Peter Hitchens? You've posted up loads of his videos. It's the closest thing to hero worship I've seen from anyone for anyone on here.

Why so furtive about your love for him when asked?

Actually I did edit my post to include Hitchens, but then I decided to take it out again as I felt what I get from him is perspective rather than facts.. I don't consider him to be a source as such. Inspiration, maybe not.. more just a refreshing attitude in an arena that is dominated by the same shades of liberal left-wing blathers these days. Nothing to hide, I make no qualms about my appreciation for his perspective, though I don't agree with everything he says. One of the reasons I do like him is because he openly admits to having moved from far-left to socially conservative in his lifetime and communicates the importance of such a move, and the fact he shares my position of being a somewhat emotionally detached cynic.. he's old, he knows things are messed up and we're busy choosing the wrong future.

 

[TAVOR]

Within this thread its pretty much impossible to have a normal discussion, the same goes for discussion of politics in real life.
People on the left won't change their idea, just like people on the right wing spectrum won't change theirs.

Only time will tell what will happen to Britain after the Brexit referendum, I have no trust in the so called "economic experts" since they are pretty much deceitful puppets and have their own interests. But again they might be right all along...
As of now I believe Brexit was a positive outcome, however only time can demonstrate whether it was really a right move to do or a self inflicted failure.

 

[Vagina Lover]

One of the precepts of critical thinking, as you alluded to, is to alter one's views and opinions as new evidence comes to light.

Would you, then, agree with the fact that it may not have been a good idea to vote for Britain to exit the European Union?

Depends on what you mean by good idea, in what context. If you're talking short-term economic impact, then yes I would agree it is a bad idea to brexit, though I understood this risk and believe it is worth it.. hell, even long term economic impact is a price worth paying to preserve democracy and sovereignty! Money doesn't bleed like people do. So we take a hit to our standard of living.. big woop.. we live like fucking kings anyway, even those who live with very little.

But beyond the economics what argument are you referring to? That's the only one I see that has actual merit to it.



Actually I did edit my post to include Hitchens, but then I decided to take it out again as I felt what I get from him is perspective rather than facts.. I don't consider him to be a source as such. Inspiration, maybe not.. more just a refreshing attitude in an arena that is dominated by the same shades of liberal left-wing blathers these days. Nothing to hide, I make no qualms about my appreciation for his perspective, though I don't agree with everything he says. One of the reasons I do like him is because he openly admits to having moved from far-left to socially.

So, to answer the question, yes it may have been a bad idea to vote for Brexit, since you acknowledge there are scenarios in which this may very well be the case?

 

[Deleted member 210577]

So, to answer the question, yes it may have been a bad idea to vote for Brexit, since you acknowledge there are scenarios in which this may very well be the case?

Well if all you're concerned about is your bank balance, career.. in essence, your own greed, then yes it maybe a bad idea. Personally I don't care about any of that. I can't take any of that with me once this life is done and I recognize that the only way this world will ever get better is through sacrifice, and not self-indulgence. Some things are way more important than money, and democracy certainly is way more important. We seem to be the first generation/s that would willingly sign it away just to maintain the false pretense of lavish lifestyles, rationalized as being "progressive" and all the left-wing jazz that gets attributed to it (when actually it's all ME ME ME!).

If we take an economic hit, so what. It's a price I believe is worth paying to preserve something which is fundamental to the real progression of our society towards civilization. So to be blunt, no, I don't think brexit was a bad idea. I think it was a good idea for the long term future of this nation, and other nations who should reclaim their power.

 

[Vagina Lover]

So what makes your hasty generalisations any less jazzy than those you refer to as left?

Is it not self-indulgent to be more interested in rationalising your own stance, than to remain open to accepting that you may have made a mistake through voting for something that, on face value, is no more a good decision than joining the EU in the first place, assuming that that was the incorrect decision?

Were it not a different generation that initially supported joining the EU?

If so, then this generational discussion is irrelevant in the scheme of voting for Brexit, since all votes are essentially valued the same.

If you're referring to debt, and the tendency for younger generations to sink themselves into it more readily than previous generations, that appears to be more an outcome of quasi-right economic policy and the philosophy of rejecting anything that seems to have a "socialist" ring to it.

 

[MMT]

If we take an economic hit, so what. It's a price I believe is worth paying to preserve something which is fundamental to the real progression of our society towards civilization. So to be blunt, no, I don't think brexit was a bad idea. I think it was a good idea for the long term future of this nation, and other nations who should reclaim their power.

Pyramid schemes always nail the last ones who try to get out.

If you're referring to debt, and the tendency for younger generations to sink themselves into it more readily than previous generations, that appears to be more an outcome of quasi-right economic policy and the philosophy of rejecting anything that seems to have a "socialist" ring to it.

Wow,talk about having your cake and eating it too. LOL.

 

[Vagina Lover]

Wow,talk about having your cake and eating it too. LOL.

Does something in what you quoted reflect that idiom?

 

[Dracarys]

Well if all you're concerned about is your bank balance, career.. in essence, your own greed, then yes it maybe a bad idea. Personally I don't care about any of that. I can't take any of that with me once this life is done and I recognize that the only way this world will ever get better is through sacrifice, and not self-indulgence. Some things are way more important than money, and democracy certainly is way more important. We seem to be the first generation/s that would willingly sign it away just to maintain the false pretense of lavish lifestyles, rationalized as being "progressive" and all the left-wing jazz that gets attributed to it (when actually it's all ME ME ME!).

If we take an economic hit, so what. It's a price I believe is worth paying to preserve something which is fundamental to the real progression of our society towards civilization. So to be blunt, no, I don't think brexit was a bad idea. I think it was a good idea for the long term future of this nation, and other nations who should reclaim their power.

You're making a big mistake.

The EU is seen, by many americans as well as by the tories, as a socialist project. The reason many of the tories wanted out, is because they want MORE globalisation and LESS regulation. If you're on your own, environmental laws, labour rights, and social projects and institutions such as welfare and the NHS are expensive, and you're making your economy more vulnerable.

Only less regulation, tax cuts for big company's and billionairs, more globalisation and decreased government spending on things like the NHS will make the british economy on it's own competitive and will get britain out of the coming recession.

Guess what is going to happen? exactly that. Tax cuts for billionairs and all THAT jazz. THÁT'S what you've voted for. You just don't realise it yet.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Is it not self-indulgent to be more interested in rationalising your own stance, than to remain open to accepting that you may have made a mistake through voting for something that, on face value, is no more a good decision than joining the EU in the first place, assuming that that was the incorrect decision?

I don't believe voting to leave is a mistake, I think I've explained why that is the case well enough already. I'm seeing a lot of crud being spewed in the media at the moment.. bitter metropolitan slickers, and cunts like Tony Blair who just won't go away or die already, trying to convince everyone we've made a huge terrible mistake. It hasn't even been 2 weeks. It's pathetic!

Also your post is a tad high on the waffle, what exactly is the point your trying to make?

 

[Vagina Lover]

Also your post is a tad high on the waffle, what exactly is the point your trying to make?

You seem to be rationalising, repeatedly, that your decision to vote in favour of Brexit is, and will continue to be, the only correct decision to have been made.

You further seem to be mocking those who voted the other way.

You refer to news articles, google, and wikipedia as the soul basis for your opinions, although you seem to think these opinions are well thought out arguments.

They are not arguments because they fail to take on the form of being valid, cogent, sound, and they also lack strength in a rational sense.

I've lost count of how many fallacies there are in your posts on this thread.

It's quite laughable, really, that you attempt to use tone, irrelevant characteristics, name-calling, and contradiction, with little or no supporting evidence aside from what you have read in the news, wikipedia, or seen on YouTube, to support these opinions.

I was not going to point this out directly, as I sometimes use wikipedia to refer to layman's definitions on forums, but you asked, so there you are.

For further information on forming arguments, voting, and before you attempt to mock anyone else for opposing your elementary opinions, please consult the Stanford Encyclopedia on Philosophy

 

[MMT]

Does something in what you quoted reflect that idiom?

Well let's see. On one hand you're blaming the "younger generation's" slide into debt as the fault of right wing economic policy and on the other, that leftist socialism would have/could have saved them from themselves. Maybe "killing two birds with one stone" would have been a more apt idiom in describing your political bent. Regardless,your attempt was disingenuous at best.

 

[MMT]

You seem to be rationalising, repeatedly, that your decision to vote in favour of Brexit is, and will continue to be, the only correct decision to have been made.

You further seem to be mocking those who voted the other way.

You refer to news articles, google, and wikipedia as the soul basis for your opinions, although you seem to think these opinions are well thought out arguments.

They are not arguments because they fail to take on the form of being valid, cogent, sound, and they also lack strength in a rational sense.

I've lost count of how many fallacies there are in your posts on this thread.

It's quite laughable, really, that you attempt to use tone, irrelevant characteristics, name-calling, and contradiction, with little or no supporting evidence aside from what you have read in the news, wikipedia, or seen on YouTube, to support these opinions.

I was not going to point this out directly, as I sometimes use wikipedia to refer to layman's definitions on forums, but you asked, so there you are.

For further information on forming arguments, voting, and before you attempt to mock anyone else for opposing your elementary opinions, please consult the Stanford Encyclopedia on Philosophy

OMG,just what the world needs,another friggin philosopher passing judgment from her ivory tower.You'll be hiding behind the man with the sword when the pitchforks and torches are at the gates and 10,000 copies of your Stanford,blah,blah,blah won't mean shit.Unless you need to eat the pages for sustenance or to wipe your ass.

 

[Vagina Lover]

Well let's see. On one hand you're blaming the "younger generation's" slide into debt as the fault of right wing economic policy and on the other, that leftist socialism would have/could have saved them from themselves. Maybe "killing two birds with one stone" would have been a more apt idiom in describing your political bent. Regardless,your attempt was disingenuous at best.

Attempt at what?

OMG,just what the world needs,another friggin philosopher passing judgment from her ivory tower.You'll be hiding behind the man with the sword when the pitchforks and torches are at the gates and 10,000 copies of your Stanford,blah,blah,blah won't mean shit.Unless you need to eat the pages for sustenance or to wipe your ass.

Paranoid sarcasm.

 

[Dracarys]

Also your post is a tad high on the waffle, what exactly is the point your trying to make?

Do you mean my post? Name the waffle bit then.

And also, those bitter metropolitan slickers are probably paying your welfare check (because i don't believe that anyone with views like yours, actually would have a job).

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Do you mean my post? Name the waffle bit then.

And also, those bitter metropolitan slickers are probably paying your welfare check (because i don't believe that anyone with views like yours, actually would have a job).

I was quoting Vagina Lover, not you. And I have a job in the city thanks very much.

 

[Bagseed]

Well if all you're concerned about is your bank balance, career.. in essence, your own greed, then yes it maybe a bad idea. Personally I don't care about any of that. I can't take any of that with me once this life is done and I recognize that the only way this world will ever get better is through sacrifice, and not self-indulgence.

yet you are absolutely against your country helping refugees.

apparantly, foggy concepts like "sovereignity" (how will the brexit help you personally gain more of that?) and freedom (you already have) is more important than helping people in need and danger.

 

[manboychef]

I believe this is going to have a net negative impact on the average british person. The wealthy, and large corporations do not want the labor security, the environmental laws, and the ability for a population that is not treated fairly to be able to move to another country easily. Yes there are problems with the EU. Would you rather have britain turn into the US? That is where this is going. Chances are it will be so gradual that you will be in the same boat as americans, waking up clutching a gun in a home you cannot afford, working a job that doesn't pay the bills while you wonder where all the unions went.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

^

We already have all this minus the gun bit.

 

[Dracarys]

^

We already have all this minus the gun bit.

The UK is at the moment, also in this perspective, somewhere in between america and Mainland europe. Without the EU it's likely going to be more like america. Because 1-this has Always been the REAL reason for tory brexit support, 2-stuff like the NHS costs money. For big international firms, a high tax zone with acces to 62 million (or less if the scots decide to leave, or rather, to stay) consumers is a less atractive place to do busines than a high tax zone with acces to 450 million. So to keep the economy afloat, the tories have the will AND the economic arguments to make this reagonomic nightmare real.

 

[Dracarys]

And that's the irony here...Most voters wanted less globalisation and now they're gonna get more.