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Kratom The Kratom Megathread

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zirbeldude2 said:
How much did you drink per day?
Because it seems you kind of quit cold turkey?
Kratom will not prevent delirium and seizures.
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Good questions !!

I was a 20 to 30 unit a day man for many years, having started drinking 30 plus years ago, but those levels were lower when I was working. Made redundant some 18 months ago and drinking went back through the roof and had a 2 week binge on about 40 units a day before seeking help.
Over 12 months tapered down to 6 units a day then had 5 days in hospital (unrelated to drink) where they fortunately gave me a detox.

From there I was more or less sober for 100 or so days but relapsed 3 or 4 weeks ago and slowly built it back to 20 - 30 units a day.

Saw the error of my ways, did a quick taper down to say 12 units a day then stopped altogether again 2 days ago, using the krat to assist with the anxiety etc I knew I would get.

I understand your concern but feel my current circumstances give me little to worry about regarding DT's and seizures.

R.
 
Oh, yeah, I should've mentioned kava as well. That's a pretty good alternative.
morphine-dreams said:
Can I ask which strains lasted longer? I found my favorite pretty early on and just stuck with it, but it was one that primarily caused stimulation and euphoria (white vein indo) so maybe that had something to do with it? I would looooove a strain that can provide pain relief for longer than 2-3 hours!
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Can't speak to the pain relief side of it very much as I don't usually deal with that. That being said, I think a few of the strains that lasted a pretty long time might've been elephant leaf, green sumatra/borneo, and red borneo. (Can't quite remember, as I've been trying out a lot of different strains recently.) It will probably vary a good deal between vendors and freshness, but those have worked pretty good for me.
Towards the end it there isn't so much euphoria or energy, it mostly mellows down to a state of relaxation and slight body high.
(Sorry for the late response, btw.)

(Also, keep in mind that when I take kratom, it's in the ~5 gram dose range, so effects will be far more noticeable than with 1-2 grams.)
 
Oakstone said:
(Also, keep in mind that when I take kratom, it's in the ~5 gram dose range, so effects will be far more noticeable than with 1-2 grams.)
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Hi.

In your experience which have you found helped more with perhaps anxiety due to alcohol withdrawal? I fully understand it is only your view and not a recommendation etc.

My thinking being instead of a gram at (example) 2pm, 4pm, 6pm, 8pm, and 10pm = 5 grams, perhaps trying 5 grams at 4pm?

Just wanting a view if you have one.

Regarding the 5-htp I'm finding a little conflicting advice regarding dosages, some saying it is only helpful for depression at high dose (150 increased to 3000 mg daily over a 2 to 6 week period) and on the same site possible dangers if dosages are over 400 mg daily.

I can't find any advice on dosages for anxiety and/or depression due to stopping drinking.

Edit : From what I have further read a dosage of 300 - 500 mg daily produces serotonin to levels where it would be 'felt' via increased happiness/ euphoria, taken either as one dose or split during day.

Certainly one for the medicine cabinet.
 
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i get a strong vibe Clutching is just going to replace his drinking with 24/7 kratom use..i just see the writing on the wall..i mean, when u quit alcohol and start using kratom, you still get a strong mood boost(anti anxiety relief) so in actuality you still arent sober..you know what i mean?you would have to not use kratom for 3-4 days an see where you are at mentally to see if you can do it sober..
 
belfort said:
i get a strong vibe Clutching is just going to replace his drinking with 24/7 kratom use..i just see the writing on the wall..i mean, when u quit alcohol and start using kratom, you still get a strong mood boost(anti anxiety relief) so in actuality you still arent sober..you know what i mean?you would have to not use kratom for 3-4 days an see where you are at mentally to see if you can do it sober..
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Yeah, kratom is even more addicting for me than booze, albeit a more functional addiction. Kratom w.d.'s really suck as well.
 
Thanks for your concern, seriously.

Kratom is soon to be made illegal in my country (may 28th to my knowledge) so unless I win the lottery I don't see myself getting a Krat addiction.

I am at this very moment studying other options, 5-htp being one, Kava (also soon to be made illegal, and currently already illegal to import in any form other than it's natural form, I believe powdered root is ok atm).

I am then looking towards other natural remedies that are not to be banned, but have not got to that point yet.

Yes I like the Krat, it is currently fulfilling my needs and I dose it as needed, not when I wake up for example.

I gave the booze up, with some benzo help and counselling, (2mg valium per day) and then gave up all drugs except my Amitriptyline as I struggle to sleep.

I did falter, hence I'm here.

Someone made a good comment about sugar which rings bells with me as right before I relapsed I had started a LCHF (Low carb high fat) diet to lose the drink related weight I have got (I need to lose about 4 stone) and I think that diet triggered my total relapse as I couldn't handle no carbs at that stage (this is all just my opinion based on hindsight).

So, I'm not drinking, I'm not eating 20 grams of Krat a day, I soon won't be able to buy Krat and I am building a plan for the future.

I really do hope the writing is on the wall for me, just not in the way you envisage.

To round it off I can contact my local mental health service in 5 days and talk to them also.

I seriously understand your comments, but please don't underestimate how much I want/ need to do this (get off the drink) because my children are reaching an age now where they are becoming aware of what I do/ have done, and I don't want to be that Dad.

Thanks.
 
I believe kratom is a mild SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and St. John's Wort is an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor). I would strongly advise you not taking those together.

5-HTP is a precursor to serotnin synthesis - the body needs tryptophan to make serotonin, which 5-htp provides. I have taken kratom during the day and 100mg of 5-htp at night during early recovery from alcohol and have found the combination quite nice in reducing anxiety and depression that is amplified from alcohol cessation. I currently take 200mg of 5-htp before bed, and while I don't think it helps me to fall asleep, I think it does keep my mood up.

The significance of kratom and 5-htp together is that as a mild SSRI, kratom will allow the serotonin to be available longer, thus resulting in a mild mood lift.

ETA: Correction: So I've searched around the net look for verification that kratom is a mild SSRI, and could find validation of that. Apparently kratom has helped people who were discontinuing sertraline, and that's how the SSRI association was formed, that and it does lift moods. Kratom acts on the mu receptors.

So this tidbit invalidates most of what I have written, with exception of the fact that St. John's Wort is a MAOI. I still would not mix it with kratom or anything that is an SSRI, or 5-htp. MAOI have a lot of negative interactions, so anyone taking one needs to do due diligence before mixing it with other substances.
 
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Clutchingatstraws said:
In your experience which have you found helped more with perhaps anxiety due to alcohol withdrawal? I fully understand it is only your view and not a recommendation etc.
My thinking being instead of a gram at (example) 2pm, 4pm, 6pm, 8pm, and 10pm = 5 grams, perhaps trying 5 grams at 4pm?
Just wanting a view if you have one.
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I don't have any experience using kratom for getting off alcohol, jsyk. That being said, a red strain of kratom would probably best for relieving anxiety and helping you relax. (Some green strains might work too, but I've found there to be more anxiety potential in more energizing strains.) Kava would probably be better from an anxiolytic point of view, though. Kava is also a muscle relaxant, so it might help prevent any possible delerium tremens.
imo, five grams once a day might serve you better relief than one gram every two to three hours, however, I think it would be somewhat easier to get addicted (at least psychologically) and grow tolerance in that case. The key thing is to make sure you don't start increasing your daily doses.
As RDP89 says, kratom is probably easier to get addicted to (I got mildly addicted to it accidentally soon after getting it originally), and withdrawals can suck, but at least they aren't near as dangerous as those of alcohol. It also has far, far less innate health dangers than alcohol.
 
One of my friends was hospitalized and literally almost died while WDing from alcohol. So yeah, compared to that I'd say that a Kratom addiction is preferable, especially compared to severe alcoholism...

Of course "no addiction" is the best solution but if you need a psychoactive substance in your life, I can think of a lot worse
 
Oh, OP, another small thing that could help with anxiety would be kanna. Thing is, that's an SSRI (in part), so you might want to be careful with combinations.
 
Does the taste of kratom change or is it not as bitter by strain or am i strange...i just dumped 2 teaspoons in my mouth, 1 at a time and although the nasty dirt feeling and need to swish liquids around was there, i didnt taste bitterness, although i eat tons of sour candy and like the taste of oxycodone chewed up, so my taste buds may be strange lol....anyways, this was 2 teaspoons of red bormeo, i have another thing of red bali also....but i was just curious if anyone else doesnt really understand the taste complaints....i dumped thebfirst teaspoon in my mouth washed it down with milk then swished the remainder with orange juice then the 2nd i filled my mouth partly with milk ans dumped the 2nd teaspoon into that and swallowed that down super easy and then followed with more oj....i never tasted the kratom just felt the nasty clumpy texture....i saw someone say he thought better kratom had less bitter taste but i dont know if it based on strain or effectiveness....any thoughts?
 
Sooo....


Not being the brightest light on the Christmas tree, am I correct in reading the last few posts as :


Kratom and 5-htp is a no-no
Kratom and Kanna is a no-no
Kanna and 5-htp is a yes
Kava and , oh ok I give up !!


I read it as some combinations work, some have little or no effect, and some can go tits up (which means not well).


I am so sorry for not understanding but simply from the list above (Kratom, Kanna, Kava, 5-htp and St John Wart) which combinations would work well for being either anxiolytic (I do understand that word) or giving the 'happy' feeling (euphoria, if you must give it a name).


Also, I just know I am going to start mixing my 2 threads together and wonder if it is possible for this all to be put into one thread, in a logical manner, without losing any posts from anyone?


I say that because my 'advise on Benzo for alcohol withdrawal' thread is becoming more like this thread with each day.

Is it possible for this to become a single thread or a blog perhaps? I don't know how to do that and there are some very well established bluelighters commenting here who could perhaps advise me?

With thanks,

Till later.

R.
 
I'm really hoping someone with pharmaceutical knowledge will answer your question Clutchingatstraws as I have questions myself regarding some of these combinations. I have some kanna I have been wanting to try, but am uncertain as to starting dose and whether or not it mixes with 5-htp, though discussing it's against rules to discuss dose some I'm more interested in whether it can be used with a low dose of 5-htp.

I think there is a better chance of that happening if your post remains in the "Other Drugs" forum as opposed to combining it with the post in "The Darkside". Would you mind if we left them seperate for a while to see if somebody answers? We can combine them later though.

In regards to kratom and 5-htp, I have never noticed any bad effects from the combination, however, I never took them at the exact same time. I have used kratom during the day, and then have used 100mg-200mg of 5-htp before bed.

The one combination I am certain you do NOT want to do is St. John's Wort with 5-htp. Personally, I would save the St. John's Wort for last as it's going to have the most interactions with other substances out of all of them as it's an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor).

If kanna is in fact an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor), I would be very careful about taking 5-htp with it, as it may cause too much serotonin to be present.

Kratom and 5-htp (<200mg) yes
Kratom and kanna ?
Kanna and kratom ?
Kratom and kava yes
kava and 5-htp yes

I'm not certain if you would want to mix kanna and kratom as both have stimulating properties, unless you did kanna in the morning and kratom later in the afternoon or evening.

Regarding strains, I don't think there is ultimately much difference between them, but white seems to be a little more stimulating than red. I would take white in the morning and red before bed when I was withdrawal from alcohol. I would also take 5-htp, kava, and melatonin right before bed and would get really solid sleep. If you try that combination, take it 30 minutes before wanting to fall asleep. It's surprisingly strong, and you will find you will stumble and slur your words if you have to still be up.

Regarding kava, make sure you get a quality brand. I don't know if they sell it in your area, but Gaia makes an extract that is very effective, and doesn't have ill effects on the skin. I have used some kava that causes a very itchy rash, that lasted for a few days. I don't know about you, but itching makes me very anxious and so it was counterproductive to taking kava for relaxation lol. Also I am girl, so skin problems on my face and neck do nothing to decrease anxiety.

DISCLAIMER: I have personally used kratom, kava, and 5-htp on the same day, for consecutive days, will no noticeable ill effects. I am giving personal experience, this is NOT based on science, so it is very possible it could be a harmful combination.
 
I've found the key to " toss n wash " is to keep your head back ..... Iced espresso or milk , head all the way back w/ a decent swallow sitting back there - small spoon full right on top of the liquid and swallow then chase ..... If you tilt your head fwd or anything to try and mix it or anything , the powder dust in your throat will gag ya' up good - keep that head back !!!
My decade run w opi's is all but dead in the water thanks to this stuff ...... Tried red , then white - now green Malay. and that's what is what finally jived w/ me - less than 2 weeks , no w/d and feeling better by far far than I have in years - like actually me again !!
 
Moreaux,

I am reading this at the point of going to bed, so not going to spend any time with a big answer other than to say thank you, what I have read sounds like sense and I will sleep on that and return later to comment more.

You really are very helpful,

R.
 
Kratom+5-htp should be ok. Kratom is primarily affects the mu opioid receptor although it has some stimulant properties as well. 5-htp is only a prescursor to serotonin, not a reuptake inhibitor. Kratom isn't an SRI either, so the chance of serotonin syndrome when the two are combined should be extremely low if not nonexistent. You did mention you're on nortryptiline though, which should not be used concurrently with 5-htp or st Johns wort. I don't know about kanna so hopefully someone else can comment on that. In general, anything that acts as an MAOI should be avoided while on an antidepressant and anything that increases the amount of serotonin in your brain should be very carefully researched for interactions beforehand.
 
Looks like kava, in some doses, can possibly work as an MAO-B inhibitor, so a combination of that and kanna might not be a good idea. Kava and kratom is a good combo, though. (Don't have any idea if it's a bad pharmacological combo, but I've never had any bad effects from it.)
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Be extremely careful. By using Kratom and being an alcoholic you're basically begging to become addicted to opiates like Kratom, or relapse on alcohol.

Stay safe.
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Kratom isn't an Opiate. Your body dosn't convert it to Morphine. That being said your right about the kratom addiction being real. But you won't die from it like alcohol. IMO a much safer alternative if your going to do either of those which you will.
 
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