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2016 American Presidential Campaign

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JessFR said:
I fully agree this enormous wealth disparity is not ok, but if the climate is right to try and implement socialism, then the climate is also right to implement solutions that won't lead to down the same road to ruin other countries have wound up on.
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That's the idea :P

I'm not advocating any particular dogma or rigid ideology. A practical approach to social and economic justice is key, of course. Every Marxist isn't a Bolshevik-Soviet style socialist.

In my view, modern day american socialists are examples of the opposite yet identical problem we have from people who are terrified of socializing anything at all. Because of socialism history, many americans have an extreme and irrational fear of anything, even positive change that looks remotely like socialism.
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I don't disagree, but I also think people are ticked by buzzwords rather than taking the time to understand the process of societal evolution. Take into account automation in the future, further erosion of economic scarcity, the harnessing of renewable resources etc. Imagine the capabilities of 3-D printing decades into the future. Society will become more socialized naturally, so long as the political system adapts to the changing society.

Socialists are the same extreme, only they have an extreme and irrational aversion to anything capitalist.
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I don't think that's necessarily true, I know quite a few socialists (communists/anarchists etc) who aren't preoccupied with bringing down the local indie cafe or taking away their plumber's business. It's the exploitation of capital over labor that socialists are adverse to.

To me it seems obvious that both these extremes are destructive and not in societies best interest. Moderate solutions are what I believe in. Keeping the best parts of capitalism and harnessing and controlling it through restrictions and some socialization. Currently we are too far in the capitalist extreme. But going the other extreme is even worse. The answer is the mixed system.
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Then what happens, though? Is that just the end, forever?
 
Maybe it is, and maybe that's okay purity is an enemy of fellowship and justice.
I'm happy for both of you helping me and Sisyphus push that boulder, even if we can't agree what the top of the mountain is. That's cool though cause once the boulder gets to the very top it's going to roll down on its own.
 
Hillary Clinton Vs. the GOP:

Can You Tell the Difference?



hillaryab.jpg


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Bernie Sanders was this country's last hope. Let's not deceive ourselves, he has no chance being nominated over Hillary. I feel we're edging closer towards the "end times". God, PLEASE SPARE the children.
 
I'm voting for Bernie. I'd vote for Bush Sr. over Hill dog.
Even my peers kinda like, and do trust Bernie, even if they like Trump more.
Clinton has not won quite yet.
 
How Trump is still in the race baffles me to death. I'm pretty sure he started out trolling everyone until the numbers started coming in. It's almost as if there's a segment of the American electorate that is as obnoxious, narcissistic, egotistical, arrogant and petty as he is.
 
Now that I am in an open primary state I am going to vote with my heart so it will no longer be Bernie. I think Bernie is a solid candidate in many ways but at the end of the day he is advocating for a massive expansion of government as if obamas policies were not far reaching and bad enough. I could not with good concience vote for him. all that being said I would be delighted to have him over Hilary.
 
Bardeaux said:
How Trump is still in the race baffles me to death. I'm pretty sure he started out trolling everyone until the numbers started coming in. It's almost as if there's a segment of the American electorate that is as obnoxious, narcissistic, egotistical, arrogant and petty as he is.
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Ignore all the batty, bigoted, just stupid shit he says and watch how he carries himself. Of all the supposedly great leaders running for the GOP nod, not one can wipe the smug off his face. He is winning, because he has the air of a winner. He projects strength and confidence and he panders openly to the worst instincts of conservatives. He's pretty good at a GOP primary is what I'm saying. On the debate stage, he is the only one that doesn't look like he's chewing on a turd, he looks like he just sold the other guys turd flavored gum and got them to pay for it.
Interestingly when he is attacking other Republicans his attacks are accurate, and sharp. When he is attacking the issues of the day he just says whatever silly shit he wants as long as it sounds tough.
 
Droppersneck said:
Now that I am in an open primary state I am going to vote with my heart so it will no longer be Bernie. I think Bernie is a solid candidate in many ways but at the end of the day he is advocating for a massive expansion of government as if obamas policies were not far reaching and bad enough. I could not with good concience vote for him. all that being said I would be delighted to have him over Hilary.
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Yeah, that's exactly what my Tea Party buddies at work say. Don't really seem to get the Obama was owned by Wall St the second ran for his first office. Don't see the difference between what that looks like and what someone who hates the banks but wants the best for us would do.
Obama has been the quarter loaf president, he ran as a corporate milquetoast moderate with an inspiring backstory who happens to be black and for some reason that was enough for Progressives. Then once in he sees what the academics think is smart, knows he can't do that so asks for half, and ends up with a quarter. He'll never really go after the people who got us into this mess though. The previous administration for fucking up our foreign policy so severely, Wall St all have nothing to fear, and no reason to act like good boys and girls with Obama at the helm..
Bernie could at least get a half loaf for us working stiffs.
 
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GolemGolem said:
Ignore all the batty, bigoted, just stupid shit he says and watch how he carries himself. Of all the supposedly great leaders running for the GOP nod, not one can wipe the smug off his face. He is winning, because he has the air of a winner. He projects strength and confidence and he panders openly to the worst instincts of conservatives. He's pretty good at a GOP primary is what I'm saying. On the debate stage, he is the only one that doesn't look like he's chewing on a turd, he looks like he just sold the other guys turd flavored gum and got them to pay for it.
Interestingly when he is attacking other Republicans his attacks are accurate, and sharp. When he is attacking the issues of the day he just says whatever silly shit he wants as long as it sounds tough.
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i posted this over in mh but relevant here too, obviously: Is Donald Trump Actually a Narcissist? Therapists Weigh In!
For mental-health professionals, Donald Trump is at once easily diagnosed but slightly confounding. “Remarkably narcissistic,” said developmental psychologist Howard Gardner, a professor at Harvard Graduate School of Education. “Textbook narcissistic personality disorder,” echoed clinical psychologist Ben Michaelis. “He’s so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example of his characteristics,” said clinical psychologist George Simon, who conducts lectures and seminars on manipulative behavior. “Otherwise, I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.”
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alasdair
 
^Fun.
You know what would be awesome? Steel cage match: Trump Vs Putin Vs Bear
If you're going to beat Trump you're going to have to rob him of his Alpha Male swagger.
 
Three personality disorders make up the Triad of Evil of mental illness. These are clinical narcissism, psychopathy, and sociopathic personalit disorder. Anybody who has one of these could be viewed as evil.one trait they all have in common is lack of empathy or concern for the well being of others. Among the poor, these types often become criminals. Those born into privilege become politicians or CEOS. They are almost always incurable.

Trump is probably a clinical narcissist. But anybody who has followed Hillary Clinton has probably picked up on some of her own bizarre behaviour. Of these three personalit disorders, which is Mrs. Clinton?
 
Yes, he's selling. The idea is to make you believe that he believes.
He's not terribly smart, is bad at business, also insane and cruel.
But, he's good enough that I don't have a solid idea about what his real private positions are.
 
for somebody who claims to value logic, you sure do say some silly, illogical things droppers.

trump is as much a part of the establishment as the others. not the beltway insider republican establishment, but the establishment in a greater sense nonetheless.

alasdair
 
Droppersneck said:
The only thing that impresses me is he isn't establishment.
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A multi-billionaire is anti-establishment?

The guy helped build the modern establishment, starting in the 80s and was a great benefactor of the neo-liberal order set in motion by the Reagan administration. Ask him, he'll probably tell you he built the establishment all by himself.

Being wealthy and working within the system is his entire platform. He just knows how to market it to the average joe.
 
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I know guys, that is how sadly pathetic our political state of affairs are. Trump is what I consider non establishment because he has never been inside the government. Sure he has greased palms but any one who is anybody has in a place like NYC. And if you think that is out of step then you are preciously foolish at heart. He marches to the beat of his own drum and I do think he looks at this as simply a challenge to get the American Economy booming once again. I think he would be successful for the reasons he is criticized. I think he will negotiate better deals at the expense of political correctness and other countries prosperity. Consequently I do not think we will be anymore hated, but perhaps once again respected. I think he is socially more liberal than he is willing to let on if you listen to his howard stern interviews. All this being said I still would prefer someone else other than Hilary. Even Bernie though I hate his views on growing government but I digress.

Ali can we get a actual personal opinion on the candidates rather than snark about others stances? Im all ears brother.
 
We live in a capitalist society, Trump is the ultimate capitalist. Trump is the embodiment of the establishment, I would say.

Diplomacy isn't business. Business is a cut-throat game where you take as much as you can regardless of the consequences so long as you come out on top, being a businessman requires being a ruthless player in the game, like Trump. Being a diplomat requires patience, tact, trustworthiness and sometimes, maybe a little humility. Trump has none of these qualities. The government isn't a corporation with missiles.

As far as Bernie goes, I'm not so sure he's envisioning an expansion of government, but rather a restructuring of government. As of now, Wall St has it's hand so firmly in our government's pocket that our rockets get bigger and bigger every year. I think directing money away from corporate subsidies and into education and skills training, away from increasing military spending towards our recovering vets isn't really an expansion. Just a redirection.
 
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