☮ Social ☮ [PD Social Tripping Thread] NEW! Gather here for swirly talk

[Xorkoth]

I wondered the same thing. What experience(s) did you have that led you to Catholicism? Were you raised that way and came back to it?

 

[perpetualdawn]

240sxlover your pope is fucking awesome. He almost makes me want to convert. Not really... but I have tremendous respect for the man.

I tasted some 2C-t-7 the other day ... oh man that has to be the nastiest tasting chemical I've ever put in my mouth. Anyone else tasted it before? I wonder if it's that sulphur atom that makes it taste so vile, a lot of pungent things (like garlic) have sulphur in them.

[edit] just realized I skimmed and misunderstood.. 240sx is not a Catholic... Pope is still dope though

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah it's pretty bad. The worst thing I have ever tasted was 4-HO-DiPT, I think it was a freebase, from back in the day before fumarate salts were discovered to make tryptamines more stable. SO BAD. I actually put almost all chemicals I take right in my mouth so I can taste them, because I'm a freak like that. Plenty of them are bad (very few are pleasant) but most of them don't bother me much. 2C-T-7 didn't bother me a whole lot, it's definitely worse than a lot of them though. But 4-HO-DiPT made my eyes water and all I could think of was "MUST. GET. THIS. OUT!"

 

[Just A Guy]

I know that the question wasn't asked of me, but I'm also Catholic, and I can answer those questions.

First of all, I know that human beings sin. Sinning is human. As a Catholic, I advocate for love and kindness. As a Christian, I pledge myself to service to God, even though I fail often. I am redeemed through the sacraments and Jesus Christ's sacrifice. I utterly profess the ultimate authority of God. The Catholic church is misunderstood, and does not hate or discriminate -- it seeks to bring all of humanity together to be all they can in the service of God, to be living saints. Sometimes I feel like I accomplish such things, but only once in a while, and certainly not consistently.

I was introduced to Catholicism around 10 years old, accelerated through the teachings, was baptized, given first communion, and confirmed at 15, and even thought I'd be a priest one day, and then I turned 17, and my perceptions changed, and I became agnostic, refusing to take anything on faith, and discounting anything that I didn't understand, (which was--and is still--a lot). But after a very trying 12 years full of what I can only describe as tragedies and miracles, I let go of my disbelief, and finally learned how to do the illogical: to accept something I don't understand as the truth. (We do it as young children all the time, it's just harder when you're mature.) Could I be wrong? Sure. But it doesn't matter, as I feel it is a beautiful plan.

I don't expect to change anyone, nor do I expect anyone to change me. But it might happen.

Add On:

However, I didn't explain "Why Catholicism?" Obviously, the seeds had been planted during my youth. I suppose I might have chosen a different religion to follow otherwise, but this is where personal instinct comes in, and Catholicism seems right to me.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^But once again, I ask you, how do you overlook all the horrible discrepancies? According to the faith, I've committed many mortal sins, and since I'm never going to feel any remorse for the majority of them, is God gonna send me to hell? If he does exist, I think he's a heck of a lot more forgiving than Catholics are. I can't reconcile with it when my father is sitting at dinner with us saying that as a Catholic he's being persecuted and his faith is being destroyed simply because homosexuals want the same basic human rights he effing has.

On top of that, I hate how Christians personify God. God did not make us in his image IMO, he simply created us. I see God as a non-corporeal being, a being which exists outside of time and understanding and the physical realm in which we dwell (damn I watch too much sci-fi hahah). In a couple thousand years, science is going to let us travel the stars, and we will meet "gods" and they will be worshiped as such by other species, but I feel as our understanding of the universe grows, we will come to realize that God is simply an alien entity we couldn't comprehend before. I look at Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey, and to me, that film embodies my personal beliefs about my faith. There's a realm, a dimension, something out there in which higher beings exist, and I believe that is where the concept of "God" or "gods" comes from. It's perfectly believable that such alien entities could have come to Earth many million years ago and set the clock a' ticking for life to develop here the way it has.

I think that humans created the concept of heaven and hell because by nature, we want to know that when we die, we're not going to be in the same place as all those evil people who we hate and wish nothing to do with. If we all wound up in the same dimension after death, well shit. I can tell you I wouldn't wana end up in the same place as a bunch of serial killers or rapists or whatnot. And certainly not the same dimension as people like Rick Perry hahahah...

IF the Catholic faith as a whole ever finally decides that I can love who I want when I want, that women can get rid of fetuses that are liable to ruin their lives because of society's current structure, that people can use condoms and birth control, that I can jerk off and take drugs etc. etc., THEN and only then will I return to the faith. Currently, the faith seems to represent a great amount of what I find disgusting about Americans in general, and it sickens me.


Oh, now I'm realizing that I'm derailing the concept of this thread. So I apologize, everyone can go back to talking about doing drugs again! Sorry for the inconvenience!

 

[Just A Guy]

^But once again, I ask you, how do you overlook all the horrible discrepancies? According to the faith, I've committed many mortal sins, and since I'm never going to feel any remorse for the majority of them, is God gonna send me to hell? If he does exist, I think he's a heck of a lot more forgiving than Catholics are. I can't reconcile with it when my father is sitting at dinner with us saying that as a Catholic he's being persecuted and his faith is being destroyed simply because homosexuals want the same basic human rights he effing has.

On top of that, I hate how Christians personify God. God did not make us in his image IMO, he simply created us. I see God as a non-corporeal being, a being which exists outside of time and understanding and the physical realm in which we dwell (damn I watch too much sci-fi hahah). In a couple thousand years, science is going to let us travel the stars, and we will meet "gods" and they will be worshiped as such by other species, but I feel as our understanding of the universe grows, we will come to realize that God is simply an alien entity we couldn't comprehend before. I look at Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey, and to me, that film embodies my personal beliefs about my faith. There's a realm, a dimension, something out there in which higher beings exist, and I believe that is where the concept of "God" or "gods" comes from. It's perfectly believable that such alien entities could have come to Earth many million years ago and set the clock a' ticking for life to develop here the way it has.

I think that humans created the concept of heaven and hell because by nature, we want to know that when we die, we're not going to be in the same place as all those evil people who we hate and wish nothing to do with. If we all wound up in the same dimension after death, well shit. I can tell you I wouldn't wana end up in the same place as a bunch of serial killers or rapists or whatnot. And certainly not the same dimension as people like Rick Perry hahahah...

IF the Catholic faith as a whole ever finally decides that I can love who I want when I want, that women can get rid of fetuses that are liable to ruin their lives because of society's current structure, that people can use condoms and birth control, that I can jerk off and take drugs etc. etc., THEN and only then will I return to the faith. Currently, the faith seems to represent a great amount of what I find disgusting about Americans in general, and it sickens me.


Oh, now I'm realizing that I'm derailing the concept of this thread. So I apologize, everyone can go back to talking about doing drugs again! Sorry for the inconvenience!

Well, I'm not looking for a fight, but you bash hate and then admit you do it -- that, too, is reconcilable, though. I am remorseful that I don't remorse certain things. Is that fair? IMO, since I accept the teachings, God did make us in his image. But I don't hate people who disagree. Note that I'm not holier than thou. In fact, I'm the least among most.

Catholicism is a very personal thing for me -- and while the church community is very important, I'm often estranged from it. I can not control anyone but myself, (and don't want to, except in the case of children, where I believe I'm helping) and won't allow other people to keep me from living something beautiful.

But yeah, this is a great subject for Philosophy & Spirituality, but I usually don't talk about these kinds of things unless someone's asked about them, since we all need to find the reason and the purpose ourselves, if we are to take it to heart. Peace!

 

[perpetualdawn]

I actually put almost all chemicals I take right in my mouth so I can taste them, because I'm a freak like that.

I have a lot of respect for that. I think it's a pretty good policy actually, because you get some information about the chemical by tasting it.

You could argue that putting a drug in a gelcap to swallow it is cheating your body, since we're designed to taste the things that go into our mouth. Maybe if you can't handle the taste, you shouldn't be taking the drug.

...that being said I usually put stuff in gelcaps.

 

[Xorkoth]

I have a hard time believing that there exists a personified entity that is like humans, who sits on high and judges people upon their death. Nor can I believe the idea of heaven and hell... to me these ideas are as believable as the ideas espoused in any other religion or mythology. It's attempts from humans in earlier and very different times to ascribe meaning to life and understand things they were unable to understand, many of which we are now able to understand through the scientific method. Plus it just reeks of human hubris... if there's a god, we must be like him. He must have made us in his image. And all of these personified gods act suspiciously human.

I don't even buy the idea that we are "us" (the personalities we experience life as right now) beyond this physical life. Existence persists, to be sure, but why would our personalities, which are so intimately tied to our physical brain structure, continue for eternity (never mind the idea of continuing in eternity in either absolute bliss or torture as the two options)?

On the other hand, I think the teachings of Jesus are wonderful and that's more or less the way I try to live and that I think we would be able to have a "heaven" here on earth. I have a lot of respect for Christianity when it's followed as I think it was meant to be (ie, Jesus was a radical liberal trying to shift away from the paradigm of the doctrines and world of the old testament, into a loving and accepting society that cares for all its people. I don't think Jesus was one single special human who was divine while the rest of us are not. I think Jesus was trying to say (it's what I got from it anyway) that we are ALL special and part of god and we can all be like he was trying to be. And then the Romans got ahold of the religion and turned it into the Catholic church for the purposes of keeping control of their masses who were no longer able to be controlled by their old dogmas.

Anyway I don't mean to offend, I just enjoy talking about this kind of stuff.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I agree Xorkoth, it seems to be human hubris which created the concept of God or gods as human. Humans, after all, are the true architects of the current manifestation of the Bible or any religious text for that matter... and how, I must ask, are we supposed to reconcile the fact that God supposedly created us in his image, yet so many people look upon others and see ugliness, rather than beauty... It's a conflict of concept which I cannot reconcile, and thus I believe God to be a non-corporeal being, one of pure energy and outside the realm of physical existence, where there is no beauty or ugliness, but simply existence.

Perhaps the Christian God does exist, but he did not pen the bible, his disciples did, and just like the rest of us, they were given to human error and misconception... perhaps God told them what to write, but they simply couldn't wrap their heads around it, and so they changed his teachings into something of which they knew they, and others, could understand... however wrong that may have been.

Well, I'm not looking for a fight, but you bash hate and then admit you do it -- that, too, is reconcilable, though.

You have a good point. I have a lot to learn in the ways of acceptance... I guess I just get frustrated. I never joined debate clubs because I knew that the concept of debate is truly pointless and serves no purpose, it only ends with two parties further entrenched in their views.

I have a lot to think about.


P.S. Woah, I just got hit with a big wave of deja vu when I read over this post. The universe never ceases to mystify me.

 

[SKL]

RE: Catholicism, I don't really think this thread is an appropriate venue, but I'd be more than glad to start one in P&S, "I converted to Catholicism, AMA," maybe Just A Guy would like to contribute too.

But to briefly outline my route into the church. This may not mean much to non-Christians, but here goes.

I was born into a nominally liberal Protestant but mostly secular home. My grandfather was a pastor in the United Church of Christ, which was by then more of a venue for left wing politics than for anything resembling a historical continuity with Christianity. I was always interested in religion and began seriously studying the Bible and Church history back in high school. I was briefly involved in mainline Protestantism but found it unfulfilling, made a pit stop in Evangelical "megachurch" Protestantism and found it a mess, then I was pretty much out of church for a good decade and a half during which I did pretty inconceivable amounts of drugs and considered psychedelics to be spiritual (I no longer do, and in fact consider them, or a certain approach to them, spiritually problematic) but after some circumstances that I can't really name here eventuated, I had to leave that world, and I started to study Scripture again, along with Church history. I re-read Philip Schaff's late 19th century History of the Christian Church, which is still easily one of my favorite books. He was Protestant but relatively ecumenical in outlook. I found myself very attracted to early Christianity, and began to see the Protestant Reformation as a break in continuity, despite the fact that they were reacting so some genuine abuses, but the human element of the Church has never been perfect. It was the search for historical continuity that brought me to seek out and eventually become sacramentally confirmed into the Roman Catholic Church. I also struggled with questions of authority, i.e. who can interpret the Bible? In Protestantism you have practically as many interpretations as you have Protestants or at least Protestant pastors. This struck me as impossible. So I looked backwards into the past. As Cardinal Newman, another convert, put it, "to become deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." In Catholicism we have 2,000 years of historical continuity, a beautiful liturgy, and tradition, which G.K. Chesterton aptly called "the democracy of the dead." Our ancestors deserve a voice in our morality, our theology, our society.

Regarding the "social," i.e. mainly sexual, issues referenced above, I think it's important to realize that the "modern" perspective is incredibly new, the past 50 years or so. I find it remarkably short-sighted to think that the radical changes since the 1960s should supercede all of Western history, and find it no coincidence that as we unmoor ourselves from this history we become more degenerate as a society. Yes, I am politically a very right-wing person (I was president of College Republicans, and only drifter rightward from there after the first Bush administration), but that's not all that I'm speaking of. History is important, culture is important, we do ourselves no favors with a radical break from the past. As a Christian believer from many years even before I joined the Church, I think that historical continuity is very important and something that's been abandoned centuries ago in Protestantism and more recently in the "liberal" factions of Catholicism (I find the use of "liberal," "conservative," political labels, troubling when used in religion, "traditionalist" vs "modernist" is probably a better term ... yes, BTW, I prefer the Latin Mass.)

I am not about being self-righteous, sanctimonious, holier than though. I am a great sinner, "the chief of sinners," that is why I need the church. I need not only a near-magical "acceptance of Christ," nor just proper belief, nor to simply live a better life, I need to connect with the 2,000 year history of Christian life. Thus, the Catholic church. I have a great deal of respect, too, for Orthodoxy and Eastern Christianity, and bear the hope that the two will be reconciled. Already there is good activity on this track, in terms of seeing the filioque as mainly a linguistic problem, but the authority of the Pope is a bit of a challenge here. I think it's essential, though, that we have authority such that we have order. But I suppose I am mainly in the Western Church because I am of Western origin.

Anyway I've probably dragged this too far OT. Just A Guy, and those inquiring, let me know if it would be good to start a new thread.

 

[Help?!?!]

Definitely should. So interesting! I love hearing about this stuff though. Personallly, I was lead to the first, Siddhartha G. His teachings are beautiful and to me an outstanding path of peace?. In a way I relate SG, to Jesus, SG came far first but the principles are erriely similar. It's just about being peaceful, leading a good life, and just doing what you can, but leading a good life. Then you'll be rewarded in a sense at the end of a painful suffering life. To Buddhism in a sense life is pain, existing hurts. You follow the path of peace and do your best to help those around you. You then will be gifted to nirvana, in a terribly small unexplained way for doing the best you coukd?. Walking the path of peace and serinty as well as enlightenment, helping the best you can, then when it all ends your rewarded. You take your place among your ancestors and others "?Buddha", and bodddshtivas. It all comes together and we all flow and mesh.

True beauty and peace! Which is all washed up Help?!? Has left....:

I still have thankfully my mala bracelet with inscriptions of SG in the lotus position, as well as basic mantras inscptions. I've worn it daily for eight years now. It's just a part of me that helps with meditation and such, it's beatiful.

 

[vortech]

Took about 100mg mxe and 20mg 2ce plugged Friday. Man that was a ride. Should donr maybe 5mg less 2ce.

Saturday dosed 20mg 3 meo PCP between 530-730pm. Ended up doing a little mxe around midnight. Decided to dose 15mg 2cb, 25 mg 4 aco met and some more mxe around 230am. Havent really liked 4 aco met so far, but mannnnn that combo was nice. If anyone has seen that new cartoon/kids movie Inside Out, it was like I experienced that. Basically the movie is from the point of view of a little girls emotions and how they influence her actions and memories.and how they are stored. It was like I was inside myself.experiencing that. What a ride

Amazing, the synergy between MXE and 4-HO-MET, everyone who has tried that I know of proclaims it to be the pinnacle of psychelic experience. One for the books. All psilocin analogues really and psyilocybin for that matter really need to be researched. Given the success of recent formal Psilocybin trials, i hope that the institutions researching these compounds can be convinced with enough data to do a trial of pscilocybin with MXE as an adjunct, with enough data showing good reason to initate such a costly trial. One of the talking points in my book and reason to establish a Nexus for dissociative research, to effectively engage research institutions with significant data.
Edit: meant to type 4-aco-met. Haven't tried 4-ho-met yet.

 

[Help?!?!]

Oh 4-HO-MiPT I love how you meld with my mind, but it always wanders. Wishing you could be your cousins. 4-AcO-MIPT is an extraordinarily easy, yet deep trip. 4-Ho-DPT, you always allude me..... I'm so glad Xor was able to taste you again, you mysterious yet truly wonderful tryptamine....

 

[yepyepwoah]

Would like some 4 ho dpt.

Vortech. I tried 4 aco met with mxe a few times by itself. Three I think. It was okay, but nit super awesome.

Adding in 2 CB to the mix was insane though. Went pretty deep considering the chemicals involved, but I think the mxe helped with that.

Just took 15mg 3 meo PCP. Goin to ride some roller coasters. Have 3 more 15mg 3 meo PCP's made up. Have 65mg escaline wrapped in toilet paper. Probably plugging this at a gas station before we get there. Not as ideal as a solution, but still works.

Tank of honey tobacco Nic juice and tank of concentrate / ej mix. Hell yeah, get er dunnnnn

 

[vortech]

I was not to mean that MXE +4-aco-met is the actual pinnacle, but rather a glimpse at the potential that pscilocin analogues offer. I have experienced MXE and psyilocybin, and MXE and 4-aco-met. Both were next-level. My conclusion based on my experience plus readi g about other users experience with related analogues is that this class is the most promising combination with MXE.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

SKL, I would appreciate such a thread and participate. I realize most of my gripes with the faith are sexually based, but I stand by my opinion that it's inherently wrong and unchristian to meddle in others sexual affairs. I am personally someone who has practiced homosexual activities once or twice, and I just can't reconcile with people saying that I'm somehow a terrible person for simply enjoying what I enjoy.

I really do agree that Protestantism is ignoring history. If I were to return to Christianity, I would go with Catholicism. The other faiths pick and choose which books of the bible they want. You can't just take out revelations because you don't like it. You can't just ignore the existence of the old testament. That's what irks me about Protestantism... but Catholicism, or at least some of its practitioners', need to oppress sexuality and force others to live like them just seems highly immoral to me. It seems hypocritical, sinful, hateful... it's wrong, and I kinda get my jollies from seeing how butthurt so many people are that homosexuals can get married now. If people were more concerned with themselves rather than the sex lives of others, they might spend more time improving themselves instead of trying to tear others down.

 

[psy997]

Just saying 240sxLover, when Jesus comes the entire point is that the old laws and old ways are over, the old testament no longer to be followed. By "ignoring" that, Protestants are not cherry picking what they agree or disagree with, they're simply acknowledging Jesus' statements of obsolescence regarding them. I don't personally identify too much with Christianity, especially considering it's place now, but Jesus was certainly an enlightened soul and his teachings are more than valid. Try to look at his teachings without looking through the lenses of catholicism, protestantism, etc. Otherwise you lose yourself in the illusion which they are and never truly see Jesus and what he teaches for what it is. The same goes for any belief system. Do not mistake the finger that points to the moon as the moon itself.

 

[Xorkoth]

I really do agree that Protestantism is ignoring history. If I were to return to Christianity, I would go with Catholicism. The other faiths pick and choose which books of the bible they want. You can't just take out revelations because you don't like it. You can't just ignore the existence of the old testament. That's what irks me about Protestantism... but Catholicism, or at least some of its practitioners', need to oppress sexuality and force others to live like them just seems highly immoral to me. It seems hypocritical, sinful, hateful... it's wrong, and I kinda get my jollies from seeing how butthurt so many people are that homosexuals can get married now. If people were more concerned with themselves rather than the sex lives of others, they might spend more time improving themselves instead of trying to tear others down.

Well Catholicism picks and chooses books of the Bible too... lots of other scrolls were found with the Dead Sea scrolls for example, some of which have been dated closer to the actual life of Jesus than the ones that were chosen to make it in. Some of them are pretty radical. It's not like Catholicism gives you the whole story, it's been hand-picked.

 

[Listening]

I am by no means a believer, but I have had my mind blown by Jesus: The Kingdom of God Is Within You. I think there are some free, out-of-copyright translations.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Fair enough.