Celibacy

[-=SS=-]

It was suggested that I should start a topic on celibacy, so here it is Basically, share your thoughts, experiences, opinions or whatever concerning this practice.

===

I'll start with my current experience, then some thoughts and opinions

28/m. I've been celibate now for 4 months. Prior to this the longest has been two 2 month streaks, both ended when I met someone.. and those orgasms, haha, my god. I haven't had a nocturnal emission in this 4 month streak.. and I don't ache either.. which in itself is quite interesting.. definitely haven't passed any when I take a tinkle either, so either I've stopped producing or my body is reabsorbing the products. I feel the latter is more likely, given the rest of my apparatus is functioning let's put it that way. I have sort of conditioned myself to not have a nocturnal emission.. I always become aware during an arousing dream or image sequence at night and stop the process before the automatic response kicks in. The only times I've failed has been when alcohol has been consumed.. on a side note alcohol gives me absolutely horrific dreams. I will admit that during this 4 month streak I've been 95-99% committed.. as in, I haven't intentionally engaged in imaginative fantasy, turning my mind away whenever it starts.. but I did have a gander at some online material during a time of peak stress.. I was writing an MA thesis to be fair! I did this for 3-4 days, just 5 minutes of indulgence and fantasy, but no touching. The following day I noticed a dullness emotionally.. I still have energy but a slight zest had been taken off the top. This may be more to do with feeling an inner moral failure than actual energy loss. I tempted fate but had no nocturnal emissions or dreams, which is interesting.. a level of protection has been generated (IMO). Though I will say I have noticed, and noticed before on streaks, that women definitely can sense the energy (and/or pheromones)!

The subjective component is interesting. Definitely feel mentally sharper and more aware, but conversely my patience for a lot of things is very low.. I'm pretty cynical and brutal most of the time, but with this level of energy I find it hard to keep my mouth shut when anything pisses me off, or especially when someone is lying. And by lying even the little things.. it's like my appreciation for honesty is going up.. and this is interesting because I catch myself lying a lot too. Not verbally necessarily, but in my thoughts or actions. It's like I've begun to step back from "me"/or my ego and, to be honest, it kind of disgusts me for a lack of a better word. The whole facade is a pretense, and so is everyone elses.. and it's just disgusting haha. It makes me sad too because our entire model of life is built around this bullshitting, on a personal level and socially.. and there is a real magic to be found in the truth, on a personal level and socially. I don't know whether this is the result of the celibacy or just me approaching 30..

But the energy has to go somewhere. For a male it is 99% of our energy. It is the source of genius, the generation of abilities and refined attributes. Channeled properly it becomes the fuel for the enlightenment experience at the highest level, but it can also be transmitted (healing) or used in the pursuit of mental or physical goals. But the point is you have to channel it.. it could crack a man if he is not careful. Damning up the river can be incredibly productive, or it can result in disaster if not implemented properly.

If anyone has any questions they want to ask me about my experience so far, my goals or anything else I'd be happy to answer.


Theory:

Pretty much all I've learned about celibacy has come from one source, along with a lot of my philosophical beliefs to be fair. My source is Richard Rose. He experimented with celibacy for seven years in his twenties, and it ultimately helped precipitate the enlightenment experience in him. I trust his word.. I've listened to countless hours of material and read all his writings.. I never met him but I would trust mine or my families life in his hands. The major underlying component of his attitude towards celibacy is that of "reversing the vector". That is, sexual energy is the most potent energy we generate and the whole process dominates our minds, and if one wants to achieve a spiritual goal celibacy is required to both generate the energy necessary and to keep the head clear.. to reverse the downward vector or tendency to waste the energy in a non-(re)productive direction. He had some very interesting, and disturbing, beliefs about the sex process.. which I have mentioned on this board before.. involving entities. That is another topic though. But it is relevant to say that celibacy, of being innocent of mind and body, provides protection from external influences/entities in our lives.

This is a one hour talk given in his home to some students on the topic of celibacy. Well worth a listen. Remain doubtful but open minded. It is interesting just to hear such a different and deep opinion on a topic that very rarely is discussed, let alone by anyone who has actually done it! Let alone for years!




This resource has lots of material on celibacy, and more of Richard Roses' writings on the topic.. which again are worth a read. I will quote some important points from his material:

http://selfdefinition.org/celibacy/

http://selfdefinition.org/celibacy/quotes/richard-rose-notes-on-celibacy.htm

You can use this energy any way you want. But you must make this your priority. You can’t be a wise man and a millionaire both.

Celibacy implies totality of focus, total control.

Once you prove to yourself that you have control, something happens.

After this intuition develops, you won’t burn yourself out.

You can apply your intellect to solve any problem. You can apply this to reach people’s heads.

People new in the public eye (incl. political leaders) start to look ragged; they can’t resist the temptation to spend the energy. <-- So true haha

If you wish, you can 1) develop perfect intuition, 2) project energy: i.e., heal, touch other minds.

There is no limit to this (healing, etc.) – but all of no ultimate value.

Use this to develop the intuition to arrive at a simple answer – the goal of all spirituality – which is the only real use for this energy.

Not many people between 40 and 70 accomplish anything – unless they had established a direction when they were young.

There is magic in this. It can extremely dangerous; there is a negative side of the picture. Tricks are played, taking energy from others.

You must know how to hold the oil in your lamp once you get it. (Biblical reference)

Celibacy develops creative genius and intuition—items needed to carry a man where there are no railroad tracks.

At times, however, we may feel very compelled to seize upon an opportunity, and as long as we strongly feel or believe it is right, then perhaps we must use the opportunity. We may be wrong, but trial and error is often our only hope. A lifestyle that develops intuition will guide us at these rare or critical crossroads.

Negative suggestions to the mind are not very effective. For example, "I will not have sex" is not as workable as "I wish to be free of sex."

To the celibate or virgin man, the most energy-consuming woman will look the most beautiful.

If a person lives a clean or celibate life in his earlier years (before 35 years of age), then in his older years, when celibacy is a less effective lever, he will still be able to maintain a high energy level.

Prostatitis is not caused by celibacy itself, but by indulging in sexual reverie while abstaining at the same time. Prostatitis and cancer of the prostate are more likely to be the result of diet, sexual habits, hereditary, etc. then celibacy.

Everybody has governing agents which build forces around them and lead them around. Celibacy is the only way to escape this. If you are not celibate, you get bounced back and forth until you get bounced down a narrow channel that has been picked for you.

Celibacy can have different results for different people. But indulging in any kind of sex, even if controlled, should not disrupt, because it will destroy your direction.

A man is not an individual until he gets control of his body.

Entities may set up the entire game over a lifetime to create the downfall of an individual. Some men who steal or commit other crimes are seemingly charmed. They get away with everything until committing a big crime. Then he is put into the penitentiary, where homosexual activities feed energy to the entity that created the charmed life.

Another method of creating someone’s downfall: an entity may attack a spiritual individual, or a spouse, and inflict a physical ailment or pain.

Women need prostaglandins and quantum energy to keep them young. If a man declines to give prostaglandins to his wife, he risks the danger of the woman finding another man.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

I believe celibacy is a great thing spiritually. By denying ones carnal desires, one can achieve higher spirituality

But even though I believe it's best for one spiritually, it's not something I would do myself. Similarly, I think avoiding alcohol is better spiritually, however, I don't plan on not drinking beer anymore.

 

[perpetualdawn]

I believe that people can find spiritual value in choosing celibacy, and I would support their decision to do so. I don't like when this choice becomes institutionalized and mandatory, like in a lot of spiritual orders. I think that when celibacy becomes prescribed by religion, it just leads to problems. It needs to be a voluntary personal choice.

Abstinence makes the Church grow Fondlers.

 

[-=SS=-]

I believe that people can find spiritual value in choosing celibacy, and I would support their decision to do so. I don't like when this choice becomes institutionalized and mandatory, like in a lot of spiritual orders. I think that when celibacy becomes prescribed by religion, it just leads to problems. It needs to be a voluntary personal choice.

Abstinence makes the Church grow Fondlers.

It's just as wrong to demand sex of a person as it is to demand they go without.. you are right, it has to be a personal decision. The practice among priests is interesting and I wonder if it was ever understood within the church what celibacy is really about, or whether they just stole the practice from other spiritual practicing people.

 

[herbavore]

It's just as wrong to demand sex of a person as it is to demand they go without.

I agree but I see it more often done to people that identify as asexual (without sexual urges at all) than to people that make a conscious choice to be celibate--either for a period of time or for a certain spiritual path.

I was celibate for a year by choice when I was in my twenties. It did not involve any motivations about energy or spirituality or focus. It was because I knew that I used sexual relationships to avoid developing self-acceptance and the deeper friendships and bonds that could come of a better relationship with myself. It was a good experience for me but I do see it as highly personal.

 

[jammin83]

I understand what you are saying, and I certainly think it has value...but I couldn't do it and really wouldn't want to.

When I've been without sex for a while, all it really does for me is make every woman I see look super hot. It's kind of cool, but getting turned on by whomever, is kind of distracting. After a couple weeks, spontaneous orgasms would be highly probable. YMMV.

Abstinence makes the church grow fondlers

That's pretty funny star.

 

[talkin2myself]

I believe to Maslow, that sex is one of our needs, just like drinking or eating. If I don't have a chance to have sex for a month or so, I start to become anxious and depressed. It's not just about orgasm, it's about being close to someone, psychiscally. I love to see I cause pleasure to my partner, and it boosts up my confidence. (To me the girl's orgasm is as much important as mine).

But I understand the concept of celibacy, it's like when I'm on diet, and all my friends are eating at McDonalds (at 3 am, while wasted) and I can say no to unhealthy food. It's a good feeling, it makes me feel strong. The feeling that I control my needs, not reverse. Maybe it's the same with celibacy, but since sex is highly pleasureable and healthy, I don't think I would ever try it, unless if I wont have anyone to hook up with. (If that happens, then Pornhub was created for a reason :D )

 

[P.o.T.u.S]

I was celibate for 6 months, now I masturbate/have sex around once a week..u have more energy but u can get annoyed easier the first few weeks..I think stopping porn is better for u than all out celibacy..healthy sex can be just as good for the spirit as celibacy..

i feel I have more control over my emotions and just overall better mentally now that I don't orgasm on a daily basis

 

[psychedelicsoul]

I think pure celibacy is best for ones spirit... since it akes one away from their flesh. I believe the more control ones soul has over their body the better.
I think being straight is better for ones spirit, and that's based on my experiances. I think having sex only for procreation is better spiritually, but not as good as celibacy
I also think having sex a lot and jerking off a lot is bad for ones spirit.

I wish I didn't masturbate as much... I also wish I was only turned on by grown women and not lolis. I struggled with being bi and would encourage anyone else to do the same, but still. I wish my spirit was stronger so I could stop liking lolicon

 

[Jabberwocky]

ok, so I retired from Bluelight but I still look at Bluelight now and again. I guess it's a bit like fapping when you think about it, only now I've withdrawn the temptation to spill my mental seed all over the place. :D. Comments prior to this thread and this thread itself have inspired me to give chastity a go. What the heck. I'm drug free, stripped my diet down to it's basics, I'm exercising a few times a week, refraining from all types of indulgence in my life and feeling great. I want to keep this energy going. It's not about guilt, it's not about denying myself pleasure. It's about reconnecting with my understanding of what pleasure is again since I've abused those circuits long enough. I've left the Shaman talk behind, but should mention that part of becoming a shaman is a prolonged period of chastity and removing all added salt from ones diet while meditating of plant medicines. Yes salt and sex are as addictive as it gets. I never did that part, so here is a chance for me to finish the work I never started even though I could care less about being a shaman at this stage. Long story short, this is really powerful stuff. Normally when the sexy thoughts enter my brain the desire and ritual of fapping is pretty automatic. Now that I've taken a break from fapping, I can get a little clarity about these energies. It's hard to explore sexual trauma for example cause often the reaction is one of arousal while thinking about it and then that sets off guilt and the cycle is vicious. It's allowed me to connect more intimately with my own experience. thanks for the post .=SS=.

So anyways, I didn't come out of retirement to say that. I came out of retirement to see if you, PsychedelicSoul, would like to sign up and take the NoFap challenge with me. Not a competition, in fact, I'll be of support to you now and again and remind people that may attack you how important a step this can be for you and your life.

http://selfdefinition.org/celibacy/quotes/no-fap-online-community.htm

Trolling of any kind is not allowed and you will be perma banned immediately. You set your own goal, set your own desired outcome. I believe you can actually get over your lolicon addiction without self-torture or self-annihilation. We're all sexual being and sometimes growing up that energy gets stuck through trauma. What started out as something simple gets misdirected, fed and can become a monster to contend with through ritual, guilt and dedication. There is some truth to this entity talk you know. Anyways, I think you can improve your life tremendously. Just a little old fashion dedication, restraint and self-exploration. Mentally, you are smart enough to recognize how important this is and that changes need to be made. These are your comments, not mine. You also have integrity when it comes to telling your truth in spite of the opinions they may elicit. If you are willing to use this as an opportunity to better yourself, then instead of just talking about it and making people around you furious (I'd be lying if I said I haven't been angry at you too, but whatever, I'm over it). Give it a go. If you take the step of signing up you can PM me your username, then I will do that same. In case you suspect my motives in doing this, relax, I ain't gonna try to fix you, I ain't your buddy buddy, and it's gotta be you who fixes yourself. I'll just believe you can do it and be of support while the challenge is still ongoing. Besides, nothing wrong with a good Nofap challenge.

... back to retirement

Edit: I want to make clear what I mean by entity in this context since I mentioned it. It is in itself a fearful term which can be counter-productive. Richard Rose uses entity as a borderline fear tactic which is offensive in todays world. I didn't mean it that way. I believe awareness enters the world in a very ordered way. Then awareness gets stuck in little loops if you will. Not all of those are counter-productive. I use these thought loops to get through tasks I don't feel like doing for example, like paying taxes or whatnot. Some people are very aware of this human psychology and use it intentionally to create thought loops in others or transmit them to others since that is all they know. In fact, we are being bombarded by this all the time. What's worse, they bring into it energies that don't belong in the thought loops at all. Violence gets mixed with sex, hate gets mixed with divine connection with God. Etc, etc. These so called energies can take on lives of their own. They become the proverbial monkey on our back and angel/devil on our shoulder whispering in our ear. Let's be clear about that. Thinking about entities as yet another thing outside of ourselves attacking us is yet another trap we fall into — they don't exist without us. So fuck the angel and fuck the devil I say, look inside (don't literally fuck them, this is a celibacy forum people 8) ). Kick the monkey off your back and the devil and the angel to the curb. Your connection is to yourself (in a sense we can only understand when we are connected with spirit deeply, our connection is to ourselves — since we are one after all) and your highest power. In that context free will makes perfect sense, there is no confusion about what freedom, pleasure and levels mean. Until then, we are stuck having to deal with it. Entities have no power over us if we don't hand it to them and feed them. They have to leave when we see the game we are engaged in and withdraw support and ask for our freedom back. Anyways, that's how I chose to see it. Could be wrong about that too.

 

[JessFR]

Fuck celibacy, I see no reason it would be better for your spirituality or anything really. Not spending lots of your energy pursuing sex might have positive effects, but I have a bf, I don't need to pursue it.

 

[Foreigner]

I could say so many things, but... I'll just start with, you can tell that this guy uses some watered down notions from Tantra, combined with his own new age koolaid. The stuff about entities and homosexuals just doesn't make sense. I'm not even offended, and I'm not trying to be PC, it just doesn't make sense from a psychic, spiritual, or magical perspective. Tantric energy can be cultivated between a man and a woman, two men, or two women. Makes no difference. The energetic anatomy is the same, it just acts out differently on the physical. Entities can take advantage of sexual energy, but Rose frames it in such a way that these entities monopolize on sexually impure people, or those who "fall off the path". That's absurd. Entities attach to people who are vulnerable, who do stupid things like call them in, or who in engage in energetic or magical practices which are unsafe. They don't just arrive to punish the impure.

I'm also coming from the Daoist cultivation side, wherein it's dangerous to simply suppress the sexual energy. It's also not so punitive. If you fail and end up ejaculating, it's not the end of the world. You just start over and learn from what happened. If you're feeling anger and frustration, then it's because the energy is stagnating. You could do with learning some simple cultivation techniques, like the microcosmic orbit. The stored sexual jing doesn't transform into vital energy on its own - well actually it does a little bit, which you do notice automatically - but you have to do stuff for it to happen in more major ways. Some of it involves genital stimulation, but its focus is purely practical and no fantasy happens. If you feel anger that's coming from the sexual fire, then you just run the microcosmic orbit for a little bit and you're fine. It's good that you're training the body not to expel the energy, that's part 1; but if you don't circulate it upward and around (part 2), then it will just build and build in the sexual center and cause even more health problems. It's also crazy making.

The nature of sexual energy is to be expressed, either outwardly or upwardly. But it has to go somewhere. That's its purpose.

I noticed how draining sex and standard masturbation were, so for a while I just tried being celibate. By the 7th month I was pretty frustrated, and lost it. It's only been through using the Daoist methodology have I had consistent results. Mind you, in some Daoist traditions, you have to be celibate with no sexual contact for 6 months minimum in order to rewire the body's sexual responses. After 6 months of the body being so frustrated that it can't expel it *outward*, it starts looking for other ways to channel the energy, and the only other way is upward, transforming jing (essence) into yin, yang, and the other treasures. Having a full body orgasm where the energy explodes within you, you touch the spark of the Divine, and then end up feeling physically rejuvenated, is something that can't really be conveyed. I've noticed among those who are celibate that they treat even sexual thoughts as a loss of energy, which I don't really relate to. But that's my path, I can't speak for others. It just seems unfortunate to build and store so much sexual energy but then not cultivate it further.

Claiming that celibacy is the only way is wrong. Each person is on a different path. I've met people for whom their cosmic union only happens during sex, they can't do it on their own -- when they have sex their have full kundalini and touch the Divine. Others don't want to have sex whatsoever. Others do the Daoist method. There are so many practices out there.

I think what's triggering some self-defensiveness for me is Rose's assertion that if you're not celibate then you're basically fucking up your spiritual life. That kind of fear mongering is so old school. If you're earnest in your spiritual path then you'll discover truths and evolve. Making men feel like ejaculation is evil is another surefire way to cause disease, with all that negative self talk.

Thank you SS for starting such an interesting thread, I hope you're not offended with my analysis or disagreements. I respect your path completely.

 

[Mysterie]

@^ thanks, that is some good information. i do worry a bit about how christian guilt/shame and a lack of flowing the energy through the body is expressed in nofap culture.

you probably recommended it to me in the first place but i really found mantak chia's 'cultivating male sexual energy' to be quite enlightening, although there is debate among taoists over some of his more invasive methods such as physically stopping the path of semen with pressure applied to perineum at/prior ejaculation in order to suppress it. of course i think its accepted that this is a bad idea, but microcosmic orbit and testicular breathing and other useful energetic practices are laid out well. although i remember u preferred 'the multi-orgasmic man' which i haven't had a chance to read yet.

i've done 55 days as my longest streak without ejaculating and it was transformative and also i suspect had a de-stabilising affect on me, going into higher energy states without balance. i think around day 30 or so i experienced a 5 minute long full body orgasm which to me was something out of this world, i suspect it occured due to lifting my pelvic floor with some deep breathing and circulating energy up my spine from my perineum, up to my crown whilst being extremely aroused (not touching). i couldn't even sleep that same night and had a flood of creativity, writing a song in hours flowing out of me. i don't think i knew at that point to bring down the front of the body through the heart to the lower tan tien (solar plexis) to help it dissipate.

it has been difficult to maintain longer periods without porn & MO, since. i am very much self-numbing when i fall into depressive states (without resorting to drugs these days), so it requires a lot of strength. daily meditation and an active engagement with life on a daily basis, without trapping oneself in a state of distraction for extended periods, is conducive to retaining ones sexual energy.

 

[-=SS=-]

although there is debate among taoists over some of his more invasive methods such as physically stopping the path of semen with pressure applied to perineum at/prior ejaculation in order to suppress it. of course i think its accepted that this is a bad idea

Definitely don't do that. That whole idea is based on the faulty assumption that it is the semen that must be retained at all cost, which misses the point that a lot of energy is lost in creating the semen in the first place.. which you then will simply urinate out afterwards if you try to physically suppress the ejaculation response.. and also that it is the orgasm itself which results in loss of energy through neural activity.

Fuck celibacy, I see no reason it would be better for your spirituality or anything really.

It's a tool, nothing more. It doesn't make you a better person and it doesn't automatically "enhance your spirituality".. it's about cultivating energy and channeling it towards an objective. It's a process that should be temporary too, until you achieve what you want.

I think there's a slight misconception that celibacy is holy or something along those lines whilst simultaneously holding sexual activity in contempt. We are not made to be celibate; we are made to pump out new humans.

I could say so many things, but... I'll just start with, you can tell that this guy uses some watered down notions from Tantra, combined with his own new age koolaid. The stuff about entities and homosexuals just doesn't make sense. I'm not even offended, and I'm not trying to be PC, it just doesn't make sense from a psychic, spiritual, or magical perspective. Tantric energy can be cultivated between a man and a woman, two men, or two women. Makes no difference. The energetic anatomy is the same, it just acts out differently on the physical. Entities can take advantage of sexual energy, but Rose frames it in such a way that these entities monopolize on sexually impure people, or those who "fall off the path". That's absurd. Entities attach to people who are vulnerable, who do stupid things like call them in, or who in engage in energetic or magical practices which are unsafe. They don't just arrive to punish the impure.

He viewed the entire sexual process as entity motivated.. that we are prompted to engage in sexual activity and release by a class of entities that feed off the neural activity at the point of orgasm, and that this is a kind of symbiotic relationship between us and these entities. He was clear to say there is nothing evil or malicious in this, that it is just a natural order of things. He viewed anything outside of heterosexual sex act as unhealthy, and it was always from a point of health concern and not that of dictating morals. His assertion was that nature affords the heterosexual act a measure of protection from external influence, because nature wants babies ultimately, and that other sex acts aren't afforded this protection.. which leaves the door open to potential mental manipulation from entities. I've tried to find more information on this but he refrained from talking about a lot of it because of the uproar it tends to create, for example suggesting homosexuality isn't healthy, and his objective was not to dictate or legislate.. he was always concerned with just a hand full of people and not the masses.. and trying to get those few people with dynamic potential to have the enlightenment experience.

He was also clear to state there is nothing evil in any of this. That's a misconception. Celibacy is a tool for redirecting energy, nothing more. All he stated was that the sex process results in a loss of energy, and that if you want to achieve a spiritual goal you need all the energy you can muster. Was definitely not anti-sex or anything of the sort, he made it clear this was a temporary process for a person who wishes to find something out.. and that afterwards one should commit to a partner or get married, that you can't escape natures pattern (which is creating babies/sex).

Personally I find his system more compatible with my line of thinking. I am very wary of systems that involve the pursuit of the pleasure response or equate it with something Divine or holy, or any of this circulation talk. I'm always reminded of a poster going by the handle Drew Hempel, who I came across on Taobums forum. He was big on the celibacy thing from a daoist perspective.. lots of talk about redirecting and the pingala nerve or some concept system along those lines. There's a tendency to view anything that comes from the East as legit. I take it all with a huge grain of salt. Bullshitting is a human quality and those in the East aren't exempt from it

 

[Foreigner]

He viewed the entire sexual process as entity motivated.. that we are prompted to engage in sexual activity and release by a class of entities that feed off the neural activity at the point of orgasm, and that this is a kind of symbiotic relationship between us and these entities. He was clear to say there is nothing evil or malicious in this, that it is just a natural order of things.

Koolaid, sorry but it is. So, so many new agers go on and on about entities. It's true that there's an ecosystem of entities out there but the average person will never have a problem with them. Regardless if he thinks they're neutral, good, or bad, their attachment to people is uncommon. Frankly, most people just aren't interesting or energetic enough.

He viewed anything outside of heterosexual sex act as unhealthy, and it was always from a point of health concern and not that of dictating morals. His assertion was that nature affords the heterosexual act a measure of protection from external influence, because nature wants babies ultimately, and that other sex acts aren't afforded this protection.. which leaves the door open to potential mental manipulation from entities. I've tried to find more information on this but he refrained from talking about a lot of it because of the uproar it tends to create, for example suggesting homosexuality isn't healthy, and his objective was not to dictate or legislate.. he was always concerned with just a hand full of people and not the masses.. and trying to get those few people with dynamic potential to have the enlightenment experience.

I'm not offended by unPC remarks. But my background in energetic practices still calls BS on this. I've met many new agers who are really earnest in their political and social support of homosexuality, yet feel the actual sexual practices are dangerous or not conducive to higher spirituality. I met someone recently who's part of an ayahuasca lineage which teaches that only the penis touching the cervix can cause the divine spark for higher level spiritual elevation. They are really sincere about it too. But unfortunately, they're still wrong. I don't care about politics. Cultivating sexual energy for spiritual purposes has nothing to do with your orientation. You don't even need a partner to do it. The idea that heterosexual activity is somehow immune to outside invasion because it's heterosexual is flawed thinking. If there's entity danger then they don't care what your orientation is or who you're fucking. They just need a crack in the field and an energy pattern that matches their low level, and boom.

He was also clear to state there is nothing evil in any of this. That's a misconception. Celibacy is a tool for redirecting energy, nothing more. All he stated was that the sex process results in a loss of energy, and that if you want to achieve a spiritual goal you need all the energy you can muster. Was definitely not anti-sex or anything of the sort, he made it clear this was a temporary process for a person who wishes to find something out.. and that afterwards one should commit to a partner or get married, that you can't escape natures pattern (which is creating babies/sex).

I understand that he's not stigmatizing anyone. He believes what he believes. I'm saying he's wrong, as an occultist, an academic, and a practitioner of many different energetic practices. He's just wrong. Sorry. *shrug*

Personally I find his system more compatible with my line of thinking. I am very wary of systems that involve the pursuit of the pleasure response or equate it with something Divine or holy, or any of this circulation talk. I'm always reminded of a poster going by the handle Drew Hempel, who I came across on Taobums forum. He was big on the celibacy thing from a daoist perspective.. lots of talk about redirecting and the pingala nerve or some concept system along those lines. There's a tendency to view anything that comes from the East as legit. I take it all with a huge grain of salt. Bullshitting is a human quality and those in the East aren't exempt from it

Well, there are zealots in any line of faith, including the Daoists. There are people who get fanatical about cultivation. You can't just take one example and toss out the whole practice.

I also don't care what comes from the east. I lived there for 2 years and witnessed vast amounts of koolaid. Nothing is genuine but that which is genuine. You'll meet masters and charlatans all over the world. Your not so subtle assertion that I give something credibility simply because it's eastern is kind of disrespectful, actually, and sidesteps whatever I've said.

I don't know about any pingala nerve, I was talking about the microcosmic orbit. It has equivalents in many different systems. It's not a "belief", it's basic energetic anatomy of the body. There are school kids in China who learn the orbit as part of phys-ed. Acting like it's not real is just flippant. There are natives in Africa and the Amazon who have their equivalents. It's just the body, no different than biology textbooks in different languages. I don't get why people go learning about entities but don't learn the basics of the energy body -- information which is readily available in many formats through many cultures.

If it suits your way of thinking, then great. Unfortunately it seems like a mind practice, not much else. The biggest red flag I see is the entity thing. New agers love talking about entities. It's convenient because you can never prove or disprove an entity, but you can build entire beliefs on it. Most of the time its their own psychological crap that's in their own field, and not an entity. I'm also not aware of sex between people drawing in entities, unless their practices are based on dark magic. But hey, easier to blame an outside force than actually deal with oneself. I like Daoism because it doesn't require this mind stuff, you just do the exercises and you feel the energy move. No proselytizing required.

And btw SS I say all this because I worry about you, if you are equating normal sexual and energetic practices as always having entity involvement. That has to become psychologically hazardous, eventually, even if it's just your own astral thought creations attacking you. A life based on the idea that sexual expression is dangerous can't be good.

 

[Ninae]

Yes, I first thought about making a thread about this, but thought I didn't want that headache.

There's now been about 100 days for me and changes I've been able to notice are - more power/authority over people in person, a kind of "fire" in the eyes when I look in the mirror, and increased impulses to pray or send out blessing or healing energy which I can feel working in the world. I've also had some out-of-the-body experiences in the between waking and dream state.

I guess a lot of this has to do with build-up of kundalini but also to do with other practices I engage in and it mostly seems to give more spiritual power for me. The main motivation is to rise higher in consciousness .

There's just so much resistance against these ideas because of how our collective consciousness has been formed. To see sexual inactivity as a kind of disese and with psychiatrisists like Freud claiming all neurosis are due to suppression of sexual energy (highly dubious as there could be so many ulterior motives for this, if just for women to become more sexually available).

But it can seem like a sort of fake philosophy of rebellion against authorities who wants to repress our sexuality promoted here, which most seems to buy into. Kind of like the Hippie rebellion ideas, which on the surface can seem like something good for us, but in reality often leads to people ending up on the bottom of society. Well, as with anything, people will believe what they want to believe.

 

[-=SS=-]

Foreigner: I'm not really interested in debating the philosophy I subscribe to. This guy grew up through the great depression and had his enlightenment experience in '47 at 30yrs old, long before the new-age took off. Conversely I am not really interested in debating other people on their beliefs or system any more, it is tiring and always goes nowhere. My closing comment regarding daoism and systems in general is that one should think carefully about placing faith in things they can't see, that rely on subjective experience of sensations in the body or involve visualization.

When it comes to these kinds of topics one should see if they can drop the 'cultural baggage' that often comes attached, and get at the kernel underneath. For example, the circulation of energy in daoism. Or from the Indian culture there is talk of being celibate for 12 years and then at that point magic happens. Kundalini is another Indian concept that you can drop a lot of baggage from. Different cultures and religions share similarities but often the cultural baggage is unique or differs slightly from others.

Who has the truth then? Always best to reduce to bare basics and accept the idea that people often get things wrong, or even just bullshit.

it has been difficult to maintain longer periods without porn & MO, since. i am very much self-numbing when i fall into depressive states (without resorting to drugs these days), so it requires a lot of strength. daily meditation and an active engagement with life on a daily basis, without trapping oneself in a state of distraction for extended periods, is conducive to retaining ones sexual energy.

Would you mind sharing more about your experience and journey?

 

[Ninae]

Grr, I could feel my sexual energy being siphoned off me this morning.

I could feel it leaving my sacral chakra area just as I woke up. This has happened many times when I've been abstinent for long periods and let lots of sexual energy build up. There are no physical signs and it doesn't have to involve sexual scenes, it can be somehing normal like talking with your dead grandmother just to distract you and then they do it.

But now I'm annoyed there are beings allowed to do that. That doesn't seem respecting of your free will. Pray for protection is all I can think of as you're literally helpless.

 

[-=SS=-]

I could feel it leaving my sacral chakra area just as I woke up. This has happened many times when I've been abstinent for long periods and let lots of sexual energy build up. There are no physical signs and it doesn't have to involve sexual scenes, it can be somehing normal like talking with your dead grandmother just to distract you and then they do it.

I've caught this apparent siphoning process a few times now, sometimes involving imagery, once it was just sounds, and another time there wasn't much there at all/it was a half-arsed attempt. Every time that has happened it seemed like I was "elsewhere" (though I never remember doing what) and then immediately my attention snapped back to my body and my lucidity went right up.. and I would be like "Erm.. what the hell is this??". At that moment whatever was 'there' with me abruptly stopped, like a deer in headlights. My intuitive feeling was that this feeding entity was pretty basic, like a leech.. it didn't seem nefarious or anything, just there for some nourishment.

But now I'm annoyed there are beings allowed to do that. That doesn't seem respecting of your free will. Pray for protection is all I can think of as you're literally helpless.

Leeches don't ask for your permission.. they just attach to your skin and feed until they're done. There might not be much we can do, it could be an automatic process for all we know. Praying is one option. I think programming your subconscious is another.. hold the conviction and intent that you want to stop this loss of energy/be made aware when it is happening, so that you might halt the process.

 

[Ninae]

No, I can feel an emptiness in the area, and the grandiose aura I've built up is diminished (imagine them laughing like a couple of lunatics).

But it makes you think how valuable sexual energy must be. I've read some say it's what keeps this 3d reality going. It's just most are being duped to think they're being rebellious and doing themselves a favour by giving in to it.