• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Are animals really not equal?

my father believes that to make a garden, you must first eradicate nature. when the tomatoes got aphids, i was trying to figure out what would banish them without upsetting the other bugs. he offered me various sprays, saying, 'this will kill all the bugs'. he couldn't process what i was trying to do. i've also heard him reminisce about the days of DDT - he had a bag squirrel away for years after the ban, tried to use it to poison rabbits (useless). it's a different mindset. i should write a book. my peppers die from the blight every year. well, his did - mine won't. i didn't go to grad school for epidemiology for shit.
 
I love beef, chicken, and pork, which I often share with my dog, who has more nobility and kindness in him than most people I have ever met. He can't vote, or do math or have intellectual conversations with me, but he does have a unique personality...that is for sure. Dolphins, lions, elephants, giraffs, all the higher animals I believe maybe aren't equal, but are INCREDIBLY special, especially dolphins, and deserve our protection.

Cows, pigs, and chickens are cool, and should be preserved as well and not abused, but they are fucking food man. Also they are good for medical experiments and shit.
 
I am interested in your apathy towards endangered species, psychedelicsoul. Do you mean you simply do not care if they live or die or are you not doing anything to help prevent their extinction? Most endangered species have nothing to do with food, but as others have stated the human species has negatively impacted their habitats. Do you not find the world more rich and beautiful with a multitude of animals around? And I am simply speaking in an aesthetic sense.
 
Kittycat5 said:
I am interested in your apathy towards endangered species, psychedelicsoul. Do you mean you simply do not care if they live or die or are you not doing anything to help prevent their extinction? Most endangered species have nothing to do with food, but as others have stated the human species has negatively impacted their habitats. Do you not find the world more rich and beautiful with a multitude of animals around? And I am simply speaking in an aesthetic sense.
Click to expand...

Unless extinctions will result in an environmental catastrophe, not really... I mean, if they go extinct, then they'll never suffer or be abused again. I guess it should be illegal to hunt endangered animals, but it's not something I care that much about.
 
Fair enough. I too am a meat eater, and while I am aware of the nature of meat production, I still choose to eat it. The main meats eaten, chicken, beef, and pork all come from animals we domesticated for the very purpose of providing us food. That is now their reason for being and I am ok with it. But when I look at an Amur Leopard or White Rhino or whatever, it saddens me that someday in the not so distant future, these amazing creatures, whose existence is to be a beautiful and sometimes vital part of their respective ecosystems, they will no longer be there for us to wonder over.

I guess I compartmentalize my feelings on animals. I know it doesnt seem consistant, but it is what I do.
 
Kittycat5 said:
Fair enough. I too am a meat eater, and while I am aware of the nature of meat production, I still choose to eat it. The main meats eaten, chicken, beef, and pork all come from animals we domesticated for the very purpose of providing us food. That is now their reason for being and I am ok with it. But when I look at an Amur Leopard or White Rhino or whatever, it saddens me that someday in the not so distant future, these amazing creatures, whose existence is to be a beautiful and sometimes vital part of their respective ecosystems, they will no longer be there for us to wonder over.

I guess I compartmentalize my feelings on animals. I know it doesnt seem consistant, but it is what I do.
Click to expand...

I'm for hunting and eating exotic animals. Contrary to anti-hunting rhetoric. A lot of hunters do kill Elephants and preserve the meat. Many have fed a number of african villages. Same goes with giraffes, hippos and even lions.
 
Hmm, well we differ there. Most big game hunters dont share the meat, afaik. If they do give it to locals or if locals do the hunting, it is slightly better, but I cannot see it being sustainable. Would hunting large game simply for sport and trophies be ok with you?
 
Kittycat5 said:
Hmm, well we differ there. Most big game hunters dont share the meat, afaik. If they do give it to locals or if locals do the hunting, it is slightly better, but I cannot see it being sustainable. Would hunting large game simply for sport and trophies be ok with you?
Click to expand...

I think animals have 3 purposes to humans... meat, pets, and service animals.

I am against zoos, sea world, trophy hunting, shark finning, and other wasteful bullshit. (I'm not against fur, or trophies from animals that have been killed for food. If I shot an elephant and fed a village, I deserve to bring back the tusks)
I also think it's stupid to buy fur from an animal you didn't kill. For me, I only want fur from something I killed myself so I can wear it as a symbol of pride. And who "buys" taxedermy trophies? What's the point in buying a trophy you didn't win. It's like if I bought a baseball trophy? For what? To pretend that I play baseball?
 
I agree or can understand the justification for most of that. But do you feel the same even if that fur is from a critcally endangered species? Take my example of the Amur Leopard. There are maybe 70 left in the wild. It is unlikely that taking the 70 out would do massive damage to the ecosystem. But they are simply beautiful big cats and would hope to live in a world where they still exist. You ok with hunting them for their fur?

And psychsoul, I am not trying to rile you up in anyway. Just trying to have dialogue with someone who has opinions I do not fully agree with.
 
Kittycat5 said:
I agree or can understand the justification for most of that. But do you feel the same even if that fur is from a critcally endangered species? Take my example of the Amur Leopard. There are maybe 70 left in the wild. It is unlikely that taking the 70 out would do massive damage to the ecosystem. But they are simply beautiful big cats and would hope to live in a world where they still exist. You ok with hunting them for their fur?

And psychsoul, I am not trying to rile you up in anyway. Just trying to have dialogue with someone who has opinions I do not fully agree with.
Click to expand...

You bring up a good point. I believe from a moralistic standpoint, that all animals are of equal value. But from a pragmatic standpoint, endangered animals obviously should be taken more seriously and should be protected more. Not because their life is inherently of higher value, but based on the simple fact that they're less of them.
 
Exactly, Psychsoul. Look, I could never be a hunter. But if someone enjoys it and hunts deer or elk or whatever there is abundance of, I cannot really say, oh this person is an asshole, lets string him up. Especially if they do use the meat and fur for food and clothing. I tend to fall into the category that humans are unique from animals but do not think we should have dominian over all of them. We have much to learn be it the disciplines of genetics, ecology, drug discovery and countless others from our animal neighbors, and should focus our attention on what can we learn to help our species from theirs. But this means, for obvious reasons, these animals need to be around to learn from and at least for me, to be in awe over.

You should check out this documentary, I think from Vice, about the annual culling of whales in the Faroe Islands which seems to be sustainable but the anti-whaling activists are trying to end. Ties into a lot we have been discussing.
 
Kittycat5 said:
Exactly, Psychsoul. Look, I could never be a hunter. But if someone enjoys it and hunts deer or elk or whatever there is abundance of, I cannot really say, oh this person is an asshole, lets string him up. Especially if they do use the meat and fur for food and clothing. I tend to fall into the category that humans are unique from animals but do not think we should have dominian over all of them. We have much to learn be it the disciplines of genetics, ecology, drug discovery and countless others from our animal neighbors, and should focus our attention on what can we learn to help our species from theirs. But this means, for obvious reasons, these animals need to be around to learn from and at least for me, to be in awe over.

You should check out this documentary, I think from Vice, about the annual culling of whales in the Faroe Islands which seems to be sustainable but the anti-whaling activists are trying to end. Ties into a lot we have been discussing.
Click to expand...

Out of curiousity, could you shoot an animal that isn't cute, like a Racoon, duck, pigeon, raven, cougar, beaver, hare or an Opossum (people do eat those)
As far as whale hunting, that's pretty tricky. The reason why is because it's nearly impossible to kill a whale without it suffering. Unless you use like a canon or something. I do think whale hunting varies because some species are endangered and others aren't. I'm sure the same goes with dolphins too. I'd hunt and kill an dolphin if the breed wasn't endangered. However, whales are huge and a big hastle.

So that's one big moral grey area for me

I will say this... I think the consumption of whale meat isn't as bad as what goes on in sea world... But that depends on whether you find death or life in prison crueler.
I try not to be judgemental, but I think people who go to SeaWorld are either ignorant or don't give a shit about animals. I don't give a shit when an Orca kills it's trainer. And schools propagate the lie that SeaWorld is educational...

Yea... watching animals who are mentally scarred from sensory deprivation in tanks performing tricks they're forced to do and behaving nothing like they do in the wild is super education...
But wait? They have random facts on a little board that you could learn from an elementary school science book from a thrift store.
Yea... You could learn more pointless facts about animals from an issue of ZooBooks than an actual Zoo
(90s kids know what the fuck I'm talking about you know I ain't the only person who has this commercial memorized.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8EvnM2XUTI
 
Last edited:
These whales are mostly pilot whales and a few species of dolphins, none of which are endangered. They Faroese call it the grind and it is a great source of meat as well as community to the people there living in relative isolation. It is by no means commercial, a la the Japanese whaling industry, and while certainly bloody, they Faroese attempt to kill as humanely as possible. I am against big whaling, but this is sustenance to these people and I was more sympathetic towards them than to the anti-whalers when I watched the film. It may be coming to an end though, as the whale meat is high in toxic metals which makes them a less desirable food source. But I guess my main point is even though I dont want whales to die, the needs of the human population should take precidence. It is no Sea World, simply a custom of these hearty people who have limited food resources. I dont see it much different than raising free range chickens.
 
Kittycat5 said:
These whales are mostly pilot whales and a few species of dolphins, none of which are endangered. They Faroese call it the grind and it is a great source of meat as well as community to the people there living in relative isolation. It is by no means commercial, a la the Japanese whaling industry, and while certainly bloody, they Faroese attempt to kill as humanely as possible. I am against big whaling, but this is sustenance to these people and I was more sympathetic towards them than to the anti-whalers when I watched the film. It may be coming to an end though, as the whale meat is high in toxic metals which makes them a less desirable food source. But I guess my main point is even though I dont want whales to die, the needs of the human population should take precidence. It is no Sea World, simply a custom of these hearty people who have limited food resources. I dont see it much different than raising free range chickens.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and while I oppose commercial seal hunting for fur, I hate the attitudes some animal rights people have towards the Inuit. Those people need to hunt seals to survive, and the way they hunt them is more humane than how Americans hunt dear, and far more humane than how we hunt foxes or raccoons.
 
Exact same situation. As I said, I dont feel we have dominion of animals, but our species needs to support itself. Seal hunting by the Inuit is not only necessary for their survival but I believe they consider the seal sacred, for lack of a better word. If a few seals are killed for the good of that community, I have no issue. I just have my doubts of big game hunters supplying local population with meat so they can survive and feel it to be uneccesary.
 
psychedelicsoul said:
Exactly, and while I oppose commercial seal hunting for fur, I hate the attitudes some animal rights people have towards the Inuit. Those people need to hunt seals to survive, and the way they hunt them is more humane than how Americans hunt dear, and far more humane than how we hunt foxes or raccoons.
Click to expand...

Yes I totally agree with this. For someone to get huffy at a native population who continues to hunt the animals they evolved to hunt (in a sustainable and respectful way) seems so ridiculous to me. What else are they gonna eat? If you live in the arctic you simply HAVE to eat animals, there isn't anything else to eat. There are relatively few places on Earth where, without employing globalization/shipping/commerce, you're able to eat a diet that keeps you healthy without eating animals as part of it. No part of the Earth is this more true for than in arctic regions. But since there are so few people there. it's just part of the natural process of the food chain. Plus they tend to use all parts of the animal and there is no caging or domestication so the animals are able to live their lives... instead of being eaten by a polar bear or shark some of them are eaten by humans.

But yeah, the fur industry is ridiculous. It's not ridiculous for an Inuit to kill and eat a seal and use its fur as life-giving warmth, but for some rich society person to decide they need to wear seal fur as a fashion statement is a different story.

Kittycat5 said:
Exactly, Psychsoul. Look, I could never be a hunter. But if someone enjoys it and hunts deer or elk or whatever there is abundance of, I cannot really say, oh this person is an asshole, lets string him up. Especially if they do use the meat and fur for food and clothing. I tend to fall into the category that humans are unique from animals but do not think we should have dominian over all of them. We have much to learn be it the disciplines of genetics, ecology, drug discovery and countless others from our animal neighbors, and should focus our attention on what can we learn to help our species from theirs. But this means, for obvious reasons, these animals need to be around to learn from and at least for me, to be in awe over.

You should check out this documentary, I think from Vice, about the annual culling of whales in the Faroe Islands which seems to be sustainable but the anti-whaling activists are trying to end. Ties into a lot we have been discussing.
Click to expand...

In the case of animals like deer in the US, I think we actually have a responsibility at this point to hunt them, due to our own actions. Because of habitat loss and also the driving away of natural predators (ie, wolves), deer are present in amounts too large to support them anymore. If we banned deer hunting, the deer would begin to destabilize the ecosystem worse and worse. It's not their fault because before we encroached they were part of a balanced ecosystem, but the fact remains that we did encroach, so we need to kill some of them. Plus, a person who goes out and kills a deer and actually uses it (for meat, hide, etc) is having a much smaller negative impact on the world than anyone who eats meat that is domesticated (whether in factory farms or organic, humane farms, because even those require large amounts of land and feed that could be used more efficiently to feed people).
 
Much easier to eat healthy in general if you cook your own food. It's really fun too once you get the hang of it. And your life will be longer and higher quality towards the end if you eat real food. Note I am not saying not to eat meat, I eat meat and I love it and have no plans to stop.
 
Yep, your diet is much easier to control and keep track of if you actually prepare and cook your own meals.
Obvious as it may sound, i think the perception that various dietary preferences and requirements are difficult to fulfill and maintain is negated if you take processed/fast food out of the equation as much as possible.
Plus, enjoyable and often cheaper (where i live, anyway) to eat good home-cooked food.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top