Are animals really not equal?

[tantric]

Cats are glorified vermin with bells on their collars. They murder native wildlife and serve no natural purpose.

I'd be all for grinding them up and feeding them to pigs to make more bacon.

i strongly support recycling feral dogs and cats - why kill them and throw their bodies in the dump? dammit, that's your food.

 

[ForEverAfter]

we produce enough food right now to feed everyone on earth a good plant based diet, we just don't distribute it.

it's not that simple

 

[psychedelicsoul]

i ran the numbers when constructing the powerpoint for an ecological literacy course. (GREEN 101, basically), which was my punishment for dissing the geophysical ecology grad class (all the nitrogen cycles and crap, i wanted to do population ecology). truth: we produce enough food right now to feed everyone on earth a good plant based diet, we just don't distribute it. there is enough arable land to sustain up to 10 billion people indefinitely with a plant based diet. that doesn't take into account the oceans - if we managed them sensibly, those 10 billion people could have fish protein with one meal every day. yes, there are areas that can't grow crops but can support grazers, but we need the milk more than the meat. any other solution has rich people eating hamburgers and poor people starving. which is what will actually happen. man, i wish you could have it all - but it doesn't work that way. now try to imagine what would happen if every person in india and china used as much energy as the average american.....(that's the real problem - its fusion or die people)

I do not support what you're trying to do. In order to do that kind of stuff you'd need globalism. I'm very much into keeping countries apart and isolated from each other. The earth can produce enough food for everyone to get a plant based diet. However, to do so would require all nations to come together and produce

That's some NWO shit. I'm against global unions and entangling alliances as much as possible. I see an ideal world as one where each country produces food for itself. I want all my veggies to be American. Sure, we have trade so we can get cool meats and produce that doesn't come from our countries, that's fine... However, I don't like having our produce managed by anyone other than ourselves. I believe anything that can be made in America, should not have any foreign counterpart. The only reason something foreign should be in this country is if it's impossible to get it here. Like a work of art from another country, or a plant/meat not native here.

 

[spacejunk]

You have too much time on your hands.
Maybe try doing some reading.

 

[tantric]

it's not that simple

poor people can't afford to ship the food, so we burn it.

 

[tantric]

I do not support what you're trying to do. In order to do that kind of stuff you'd need globalism. I'm very much into keeping countries apart and isolated from each other. The earth can produce enough food for everyone to get a plant based diet. However, to do so would require all nations to come together and produce

That's some NWO shit. I'm against global unions and entangling alliances as much as possible. I see an ideal world as one where each country produces food for itself. I want all my veggies to be American. Sure, we have trade so we can get cool meats and produce that doesn't come from our countries, that's fine... However, I don't like having our produce managed by anyone other than ourselves. I believe anything that can be made in America, should not have any foreign counterpart. The only reason something foreign should be in this country is if it's impossible to get it here. Like a work of art from another country, or a plant/meat not native here.

where'd you get that from? every nation should have food security. it's a fundamental part of development. i agree with you completely there. a nation can't be free unless it can feed itself - that's part of what it means to be a nation. i was saying that we have enough, if we could ship it around to feed everyone now - but that won't happen. and probably isn't a good plan anyway.

i am a farmer, btw.

 

[ForEverAfter]

poor people can't afford to ship the food, so we burn it.

We can afford to ship it though, can we?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

where'd you get that from? every nation should have food security. it's a fundamental part of development. i agree with you completely there. a nation can't be free unless it can feed itself - that's part of what it means to be a nation. i was saying that we have enough, if we could ship it around to feed everyone now - but that won't happen. and probably isn't a good plan anyway.

i am a farmer, btw.

You'd have to excuse me. I'm an isolationist, xenophobic, anti-immigration person. I guess I understand what you're talking about now. Though I'm not sure America has the crops to be able to ship it and feed the rest of the world. If we did, then we probably wouldn't need to rely on all this imported produce. I know the grain we use to feed animals comes from Africa.
So in reality, the opposite is sort of happening. Us Americans, Europeans, and other developed nations get a lot from developing nations and squander their resources. As much as it pisses me off to say it... The vegans are right about our eating habits negatively affecting third world countries.

 

[tantric]

You'd have to excuse me. I'm an isolationist, xenophobic, anti-immigration person. I guess I understand what you're talking about now. Though I'm not sure America has the crops to be able to ship it and feed the rest of the world. If we did, then we probably wouldn't need to rely on all this imported produce. I know the grain we use to feed animals comes from Africa.
So in reality, the opposite is sort of happening. Us Americans, Europeans, and other developed nations get a lot from developing nations and squander their resources. As much as it pisses me off to say it... The vegans are right about our eating habits negatively affecting third world countries.

if it helps you any, i get out in the hot GA sun every day and bust my ass doing something about this. i grow food. sustainably, though not organically, and cheaply. and it looks like i'm gonna be able to make a living doing it. here's the big thing: people have to deal with bugs. i hate it for ya, but real food has bugs. you pick them out and go on. as a trained ecologist, i promise you its safer to eat the bug than the pesticide i'd have had to use to kill it. but people can't deal - if i sell a bushel of corn, and they find one worm in the corn, they freak. that's just not how life works. my farm is a part of the surrounding ecosystem. i don't fight nature, i manage it. you can never win when you fight mother nature. this year people won't buy my watermelons because they have seeds, they think the seeds will choke their children!!!! i was told if swallowed them, watermelons would grow out of my ears. seedless watermelons are freaks of nature and insanely hard to grow - and why? spit the fuckin seeds. my father has been specially breeding this type of watermelon for 40 years, his own line, and it's PRIME, explosion of taste. but not seedless...

 

[psychedelicsoul]

if it helps you any, i get out in the hot GA sun every day and bust my ass doing something about this. i grow food. sustainably, though not organically, and cheaply. and it looks like i'm gonna be able to make a living doing it. here's the big thing: people have to deal with bugs. i hate it for ya, but real food has bugs. you pick them out and go on. as a trained ecologist, i promise you its safer to eat the bug than the pesticide i'd have had to use to kill it. but people can't deal - if i sell a bushel of corn, and they find one worm in the corn, they freak. that's just not how life works. my farm is a part of the surrounding ecosystem. i don't fight nature, i manage it. you can never win when you fight mother nature. this year people won't buy my watermelons because they have seeds, they think the seeds will choke their children!!!! i was told if swallowed them, watermelons would grow out of my ears. seedless watermelons are freaks of nature and insanely hard to grow - and why? spit the fuckin seeds. my father has been specially breeding this type of watermelon for 40 years, his own line, and it's PRIME, explosion of taste. but not seedless...

That's interesting... I always did think the idea of seedless watermelons was fucking stupid. They aren't even as big. They're about the size of a cantaloupe. I like my watermelons like I like any other pair of melons. Big...

 

[tantric]

last night, when i went to pick figs, i did it commando, my figs hanging free. it was just too apropos. TMI?

 

[kvsouth69]

Life is life and we should respect ALL of it and not compare which is more important than another. Just love and respect all life as if it was the most important. Everyone and everything has a purpose of their own.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Life is life and we should respect ALL of it and not compare which is more important than another. Just love and respect all life as if it was the most important. Everyone and everything has a purpose of their own.

Exactly, animals have a purpose, steak sauce has a purpose, knives have a purpose, plates have a purpose, my stomach has a purpose... It's the all a part of the circle of life. And when it's all over, the remains of that animals are flushed into the ocean, setting the free once again in the wild.

 

[ForEverAfter]

^ I agree, psychedelic.

 

[rickolasnice]

if it helps you any, i get out in the hot GA sun every day and bust my ass doing something about this. i grow food. sustainably, though not organically, and cheaply. and it looks like i'm gonna be able to make a living doing it. here's the big thing: people have to deal with bugs. i hate it for ya, but real food has bugs. you pick them out and go on. as a trained ecologist, i promise you its safer to eat the bug than the pesticide i'd have had to use to kill it. but people can't deal - if i sell a bushel of corn, and they find one worm in the corn, they freak. that's just not how life works. my farm is a part of the surrounding ecosystem. i don't fight nature, i manage it. you can never win when you fight mother nature. this year people won't buy my watermelons because they have seeds, they think the seeds will choke their children!!!! i was told if swallowed them, watermelons would grow out of my ears. seedless watermelons are freaks of nature and insanely hard to grow - and why? spit the fuckin seeds. my father has been specially breeding this type of watermelon for 40 years, his own line, and it's PRIME, explosion of taste. but not seedless...

If you lived near enough to me I'd but off you for sure.

We all need to be buying locally sourced food.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2003/may/10/foodanddrink.shopping6

I for one welcome the eating of bugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM8s1ch5TRw

We're killing this planet. Corporate interests and the "eww! bugs!" mindset while lacking motivation and inspiration to change will be the death of us.. shame we're taking half of life on earth down with us.

 

[-=SS=-]

Don't forget the bugs you can't see, the microorganism ecosystem.. it's what makes real food real. Fortunately science is now showing the link between that and gut health, and subsequently the link between that and mental health. That requires real food growing and storage techniques, and importantly.. proper soil! Without that we're fucked.

“Upon this handful of soil our survival depends. Husband it and it will grow our food, our fuel and our shelter and surround us with beauty. Abuse it and the soil will collapse and die, taking humanity with it.”

 

[tantric]

Exactly, animals have a purpose, steak sauce has a purpose, knives have a purpose, plates have a purpose, my stomach has a purpose... It's the all a part of the circle of life. And when it's all over, the remains of that animals are flushed into the ocean, setting the free once again in the wild.

my objection isn't moral, it's practical - the cycle you describe isn't functional or sustainable. are you aware of the high tech systems we use now to turn treated sewage back into drinking water? we call them Rivers(TM). it's an extraordinarily advanced bit of biotechnology we take for granted. we cannot replicate it - nowhere on earth do people live with a closed water cycle. we don't understand it, we can't build it - attempts to make such things have utterly failed. but we can damn sure destroy it.

now, let's start with everything you don't know about the oceans.....

 

[methamaniac]

I for one welcome the eating of bugs

It's really not that simple. I'm pratically right next door to tantric in a neighboring state and I do a big garden every year.
I usually do not use pesticides, but the bugs don't just get on the food they eat/destroy/ cause disease to the plants that produce the fruits/vegetables.
Last year I got screwed on my green beans by mexican beetles and got cantaloupes the size of soft balls thanks to cucumber beetles. This year I hand picked all the beetle larvae off my beans one by one! I had two rows of them and it took the better part of a Saturday to do it. Can you imagine the time I would have spent if I had a crop of beans? The bugs are here and plentiful due to the vast number of plants farmers provide them to snack on. There really isn't much farmers can do but use pesticides. It would be great if every farmer could baby every plant they have, but its just not realistic.
Even with careful watch of your own personal garden your not guranteed a good harvest.
Those dam bugs are determined ☺

 

[tantric]

It's really not that simple. I'm pratically right next door to tantric in a neighboring state and I do a big garden every year.
I usually do not use pesticides, but the bugs don't just get on the food they eat/destroy/ cause disease to the plants that produce the fruits/vegetables.
Last year I got screwed on my green beans by mexican beetles and got cantaloupes the size of soft balls thanks to cucumber beetles. This year I hand picked all the beetle larvae off my beans one by one! I had two rows of them and it took the better part of a Saturday to do it. Can you imagine the time I would have spent if I had a crop of beans? The bugs are here and plentiful due to the vast number of plants farmers provide them to snack on. There really isn't much farmers can do but use pesticides. It would be great if every farmer could baby every plant they have, but its just not realistic.
Even with careful watch of your own personal garden your not guranteed a good harvest.
Those dam bugs are determined ☺

i use pesticides. 'organic' is a luxury food. but i use them smartly - i figure out what the problem is and pick a solution that will work with the least damage. for tomatoes, copper sulfate is the shit. neem oil is pretty good, too.

what you do is see your garden as an ecosystem to be managed, by gentle nudges. no wholesale assault on nature. you need nature to work for you. i could go on....i'm serious considering button quail as an anti-insect method. or the domestication of ants.

 

[methamaniac]

i use pesticides. 'organic' is a luxury food. but i use them smartly - i figure out what the problem is and pick a solution that will work with the least damage. for tomatoes, copper sulfate is the shit. neem oil is pretty good, too.

I have to use pesticides if I want certain crops.
I guess a lot of it depends on location.
I have never had a single problem growing bell pepper plants where I live. I could grow a garden full of them with zero pesticides. I'm lucky, because they are one of my favorite vegetables.
I'm usually still picking them and eating them all the way to the first frost.
Have you ever planted wildflowers around your garden? They can really help attract "good" pests, not to mention bees. I have been doing this for a couple years now and it seems to really help.

you do is see your garden as an ecosystem to be managed, by gentle nudges. no wholesale assault on nature. you need nature to work for you. i could go on....i'm serious considering button quail as an anti-insect method. or the domestication of ants.

Yeah, nuking the whole landscape is a bad idea.
We have a man that lives close by that makes the best blackberry honey you can get. Nobody around me dares to spay any pesticides anywhere near blackberry plants lol