I used to trip every weekend with my closest friends. Usually two tabs. It felt amazing. No anxiety, no fear, just beauty. I learned a lot from dose, and I enjoy the visuals and effects. I suffer from an anxiety disorder but It never got in the way of my trip. After a few times of getting not necessarily bad trips, but uncomfortable ones I stopped using lsd for awhile. Now when I want to trip with my friends I feel wayyyy too anxious to want to trip again. It's like I'm fighting myself to forget about the negative feeling. Now I split a tab In half, In fear of a negative experience. I've been told that maybe my brain has told me to stop using It. But because I can't smoke weed or drink, Psychedelic's are the one thing I can do, not to mention I remember how fun It is. I know I'm psyching myself out but It's unbearable not too. Is there any advice that you may have as to why this Is? I really want to enjoy myself.
Tripped many times before, but too anxious to do It again
- Thread starter Zaravoth1
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chairmanma084
Bluelighter
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If I may, why can't you smoke weed or drink alcohol?
CrypticArc
Bluelighter
Your ego will resist sometimes, I've been through that. I had taken LSD probably around 75 times already when it hit me the hardest. Just dose low, and remember that you're gonna have a good time. no matter what happens, after it's all done, you can look back and learn from as well as see beauty in that experience.
Thorns Have Roses
Bluelight Crew
While many here have certainly had extended periods of time in which they were able to trip frequently and enjoyably, it is not usually sustainable. Heavy usage such as yours is gonna make the magic wear off quickly, leaving the less desirable effects front and center. If you will pardon me for the stating the obvious, psychedelics are poor replacements for reliably recreational intoxicants such as alcohol and cannabis. That said, if you must use psychedelics in such a manner, some people have had success using the lighter phenethylamines, although I wouldn't advise it.
Take some time to yourself (sober or otherwise) and evaluate just what and why it is that you are doing what you have been doing, without factoring in your desires and expectations concerning the psychedelic experience. Perhaps that will help you realize the nature of the problem, since you don't sound like you're prepared to reconcile yourself with a typical mid/long-term usage plan just yet.
zaravoth said:
Take some time to yourself (sober or otherwise) and evaluate just what and why it is that you are doing what you have been doing, without factoring in your desires and expectations concerning the psychedelic experience. Perhaps that will help you realize the nature of the problem, since you don't sound like you're prepared to reconcile yourself with a typical mid/long-term usage plan just yet.
Experiment with other psychedelics. LSD is great stuff but it's extremely stimulating and manic as fuck - probably because it's a dopamine agonist. LSD is not something I tend to take more than once a week. I do love the stuff but it's the only psychedelic I've ever had a bad trip on.
I find 2C-E to be more conducive to frequent tripping. IME set and setting is less important on 2C-E than on acid... yes it makes me trip balls, but the headspace so much more stable and easy-going.
4-AcO-DMT is also very smooth and relaxing.
I find 2C-E to be more conducive to frequent tripping. IME set and setting is less important on 2C-E than on acid... yes it makes me trip balls, but the headspace so much more stable and easy-going.
4-AcO-DMT is also very smooth and relaxing.
I ALWAYS get anxious before I trip and I have tripped on a variety of substances numerous times. It is a bit of a joke with me now - I decide what I am taking, do a bit of reading and decide what dose I want to take. I might fast or otherwise prepare myself and sure as shit after I drop whatever it is I'm taking, (with the sole exception of MXE for some reason) I get anxious. I then shake myself reminding myself that I know what it is and what its going to do. When I get the first alerts I get a bit anxious again but at that stage I sort of laugh at my stupidity and go with it.
I heard Terrance McKenna speak about the Ego spoiling trips as it knows it is about to be dissolved, (or words to that effect) so I figure the anxiety is my Ego panicking that the psychedelics will kick it into touch and weaken it and it fights against it.
When you say you had uncomfortable trips did the Ego take a battering and could it be trying to put you off?
Worth considering.
I heard Terrance McKenna speak about the Ego spoiling trips as it knows it is about to be dissolved, (or words to that effect) so I figure the anxiety is my Ego panicking that the psychedelics will kick it into touch and weaken it and it fights against it.
When you say you had uncomfortable trips did the Ego take a battering and could it be trying to put you off?
Worth considering.
Help?!?!
Bluelighter
I wouldn't necessarily take it to the point to say it's the ego but I believe it's a certainly a learned fear sort of scenario. Psychedelics have been making you anxious or uncomfortable when you use them as of late so mentally you get nervous going into it, which highly raises the likelihood of a more negative experience. You can get over it, but given your OP, I'd take a break to try and work things out. Once your in a better place, try again! If you feel the need, procure some benzos to have on hand in case things get too hairy. For most people, just having benzos around is enough to off put the aniexty.
I'll second that - always believe in having something to stop a trip - especially if you are pushing the envelop.
Thank you guys for all the feedback. To answer about the ego, I have never been an egotistic person. In fact, I'm very open minded, loving, and spiritual kind of person. and I believe that Is why I have enjoyed psychedelic's so much. Now I might have some sort of underlying ego that I'm not aware of unless I'm tripping. I do believe It Is a learned fear that I have acquired, and I overthink this before I use the drug. I've noticed that If I clear my mind and kind of say "fuck It" I'm a lot less likely to have a bad experience. But psychedelic's for me Is more for the learning experience rather then a "fuck It" kind of drug(s) I have taken a 2 month break but that only worries me more because of the low level of tolerance I have for Lsd and psilocybin. I haven't really experienced any other psychedelic because I'm too anxious to try any. I may just be going through a tough time In my life, but when I used to trip all the time, I was In a far worse place so I'm mot very sure. Benzo's help significantly but I'm on UAs so It's quite a risk I don't wanna take. (Another reason I love psychedelic's) and also I don't wanna create a dependence on benzo's. Again, thank you for the feedback, It's really expanding my Insight!
It is and it isn't!
We all need an ego its like windows operating system, we need it to make sense of the environment - unfortunately just like windows as we update it we can get bugs and see things not as they are but as we think we should see them.
A bit like weight - we all need some but if we don't keep an eye on it we are going to suffer.
StudebakerHawk
Bluelighter
I think the low dosing advice is quite wise , however , even low doses can be uncomfortable if one is in a negative state of mind . I have seen a friend bring on a bad trip by convincing himself he was going to have one - he should not have dropped in the first place , imho ....
So very relevant always is the old adage about " set and setting " - [ one's state of mind and the environment ] - and it always will be .
Really , there is nothing to afraid of ; but psychs can be quite unforgiving if not treated with due respect and caution - in more than one way they can be " teachers " and painful lessons may be learned . So don't talk yourself into a bummer or take heroic doses until ready to do so .
If you don't feel like tripping , don't . Otherwise be sensible and approach it the necessary common sense and caution . Then when taking the plunge , enjoy the experience and have a great time .
So very relevant always is the old adage about " set and setting " - [ one's state of mind and the environment ] - and it always will be .
Really , there is nothing to afraid of ; but psychs can be quite unforgiving if not treated with due respect and caution - in more than one way they can be " teachers " and painful lessons may be learned . So don't talk yourself into a bummer or take heroic doses until ready to do so .
If you don't feel like tripping , don't . Otherwise be sensible and approach it the necessary common sense and caution . Then when taking the plunge , enjoy the experience and have a great time .
InterestingFACT
Bluelighter
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I have a couple of friends who stopped tripping after a bad trip. One of them just said he was done--never again. The other one enjoys and wants to keep tripping in the future, but gets really nervous about it and has backed out nearly every time since that it's been offered. The one time he's tried since, on a low dose of a mild hallucinogen coupled with alcohol and a clonazolam, he's gotten severe anxiety on the comeup. It's definitely a situation where his own fear of that he'll get anxiety during the trip makes him very anxious--which of course spirals into a severely anxious trip.
The standard recommendation would probably be to try a very low dose in the future,so that you can navigate the psychedelic headspace at a manageable level. However I'm of the opinion that low dose trips can sometimes put people somewhere in that uncanny valley where things feel "off" but you aren't tripping hard enough to let go and embrace the experience. This seems especially likely to someone who is anxious about tripping. The muscle tension and the feeling of energy, feeling that you can't fully express yourself, the rushing feeling as you come up--all of those sensations that you begin to feel at onset of a psychedelic experience--will of course be triggers for your anxiety, because they preceded and accompanied the uncomfortableness and trip anxiety that you've experienced in the past.
It's also worth noting that LSD in particular might be uncomfortable even at low doses because of it's affinity for dopamine receptors--and perhaps more importantly because of its partial metabolism into 13-ho-lsd, which is even more active at dopaminergic sites. (in fact, many prescription dopamine receptor agonists in use today for Parkinson's, etc. are ergoloids). While I personally find mushrooms more likely to cause a bad trip than LSD, many people feel that the opposite is true. But a low dose of mushrooms is in my opinion likely to cause much less anxiety than a low dose of LSD.
First of all, you should do everything in your power to give yourself a calm set and setting for your trip. Ask close friends to be with you for the come-up and ask them to calm/soothe you, or distract you if necessary. Avoid strangers or people who make you uncomfortable. Trip in a space that you can relax in, that has positive associations. Consider exercising prior to your trip, and stretch before and during the come-up to avoid muscle tension and physical sensations of anxiety. Make sure you get a good night's sleep, and eat a good meal, prior to dosing. Try to eat a light snack--some fruit, or a smoothie, etc.-- at some point during the trip to keep your blood sugar in check. Have lots of things planned to do--preferably things that involve being moving around and staying physically active.
If you haven't tried using benzodiazepine before dosing, you should. If you were able to drink, I'd recommend that you try that first. You could also consider over the counter or herbal anxieties remedies like l-theanine (the chemical that makes green tea calming), hops, lemon balm, etc.
Note: Don't take melatonin. My experience--and a number of other reports, if you care to look--suggests that it tends to intensify trips--increasing vasoconstriction and feelings of confusion, generally resulting in a foggier and more alien experience.
Generally speaking, I suggest that people minimize use of benzodiazepines or other sedative "crutches" because they can take away from the magic of the experience. But it might be helpful in your case as a way to "smooth the path"--enabling you to tread on psychedelic territory again, to teach yourself that you can have a wonderful and anxiety-free psychedelic experience. Maybe just once will be enough to improve your comfortability in the future, or perhaps you'll need something to calm you down in subsequent trips for quite some time.
Hopefully a minimal dose should suffice to take the "edge" off your experience and help you cope. However, if a moderately-dosed benzodiazepine isn't sufficient, than perhaps you should shelve psychedelics for the future--maybe try again a few years down the line, in a different life environment, with an arsenal of new experiences, relationships, and hopefully some personal growth to fill your thoughts and distance you from your old anxieties.
Whatever the result, best of luck to you! Psychedelics are tremendous tools for introspection and positive growth: Though use of psychedelic drugs certainly isn't essential to living a fulfilling life, a positive psychedelic experience--a truly "good trip"--could enrich nearly anyone's life.
The standard recommendation would probably be to try a very low dose in the future,so that you can navigate the psychedelic headspace at a manageable level. However I'm of the opinion that low dose trips can sometimes put people somewhere in that uncanny valley where things feel "off" but you aren't tripping hard enough to let go and embrace the experience. This seems especially likely to someone who is anxious about tripping. The muscle tension and the feeling of energy, feeling that you can't fully express yourself, the rushing feeling as you come up--all of those sensations that you begin to feel at onset of a psychedelic experience--will of course be triggers for your anxiety, because they preceded and accompanied the uncomfortableness and trip anxiety that you've experienced in the past.
It's also worth noting that LSD in particular might be uncomfortable even at low doses because of it's affinity for dopamine receptors--and perhaps more importantly because of its partial metabolism into 13-ho-lsd, which is even more active at dopaminergic sites. (in fact, many prescription dopamine receptor agonists in use today for Parkinson's, etc. are ergoloids). While I personally find mushrooms more likely to cause a bad trip than LSD, many people feel that the opposite is true. But a low dose of mushrooms is in my opinion likely to cause much less anxiety than a low dose of LSD.
First of all, you should do everything in your power to give yourself a calm set and setting for your trip. Ask close friends to be with you for the come-up and ask them to calm/soothe you, or distract you if necessary. Avoid strangers or people who make you uncomfortable. Trip in a space that you can relax in, that has positive associations. Consider exercising prior to your trip, and stretch before and during the come-up to avoid muscle tension and physical sensations of anxiety. Make sure you get a good night's sleep, and eat a good meal, prior to dosing. Try to eat a light snack--some fruit, or a smoothie, etc.-- at some point during the trip to keep your blood sugar in check. Have lots of things planned to do--preferably things that involve being moving around and staying physically active.
If you haven't tried using benzodiazepine before dosing, you should. If you were able to drink, I'd recommend that you try that first. You could also consider over the counter or herbal anxieties remedies like l-theanine (the chemical that makes green tea calming), hops, lemon balm, etc.
Note: Don't take melatonin. My experience--and a number of other reports, if you care to look--suggests that it tends to intensify trips--increasing vasoconstriction and feelings of confusion, generally resulting in a foggier and more alien experience.
Generally speaking, I suggest that people minimize use of benzodiazepines or other sedative "crutches" because they can take away from the magic of the experience. But it might be helpful in your case as a way to "smooth the path"--enabling you to tread on psychedelic territory again, to teach yourself that you can have a wonderful and anxiety-free psychedelic experience. Maybe just once will be enough to improve your comfortability in the future, or perhaps you'll need something to calm you down in subsequent trips for quite some time.
Hopefully a minimal dose should suffice to take the "edge" off your experience and help you cope. However, if a moderately-dosed benzodiazepine isn't sufficient, than perhaps you should shelve psychedelics for the future--maybe try again a few years down the line, in a different life environment, with an arsenal of new experiences, relationships, and hopefully some personal growth to fill your thoughts and distance you from your old anxieties.
Whatever the result, best of luck to you! Psychedelics are tremendous tools for introspection and positive growth: Though use of psychedelic drugs certainly isn't essential to living a fulfilling life, a positive psychedelic experience--a truly "good trip"--could enrich nearly anyone's life.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Did my fair share of tripping. In my early days tripping was about having a great time, the creativity, getting a taste of the depth of life and being more than I thought I could be. I used to also say back then that I tripped to explore myself but when the more difficult aspects of that came up I changed my tune real quick and wanted the trip to stop. I don't know how many of those fun, awe-inspiring trips you get without having to go through some of the more difficult terrain, but you do it frequently enough and without a longer period for integration, I think it is inevitable.
My early experiments with tripping eventually led to some terrifying experiences. I swore it off for a long time after that. Later in life I tripped very frequently but my mindset was very different. I dare say I was on a mission. I'd still have terrifying experiences, but my reaction was very different. I'd be anxious to trip again after a terrifying experience so I could go deeper. Nothing the psychedelic state threw at me would faze me enough to keep me from doing it again. I became pretty reckless with my desire to go deeper. Eventually reality caught up with me and I got a rude awakening about the path I was on. I got lots of benefits too (like curing a nasty persistent depression), so not saying it was in vain. It just got to be a bit misguided and I found myself having to relearn some basics about living after that. Well, now I don't trip anymore. Far from opposed to it but when I think about actually doing it I get a sort of icky feeling. I have little desire to go back now.
Felt the need to share all that because what you expect out of a trip isn't always what tripping is about. Perhaps your anxiety is trying to tell you about something you might have to face if you keep it up. I'm all about the importance of facing things you don't want to face, but I'm not about facing things you aren't ready to face. Yes, you can add drugs like benzos to keep tripping fun a while longer or get a sense of safety in knowing you can abort a difficult trip, but not my style. Alternatively, you can start preparing yourself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually for what might come. That's a journey in and of itself and not undertaken for tripping purposes, but it helped me face tripping again and go a lot deeper. Easiest would be to wait a while, maybe even years or decades if need be till your anxiety about it is manageable. Or you could trip anyways in spite of your anxiety. Just but be prepared to find out what it is you are anxious about. Psychedelics don't speak plain english; not always straightforward to understand and integrate difficult experiences that arise. It might be beneficial, but it could be harmful too. That depends on you and I can't say that for you. Not trying to scare but if you are completely unwilling to face something arising in a trip, be warned: it can shatter a person for a while.
My early experiments with tripping eventually led to some terrifying experiences. I swore it off for a long time after that. Later in life I tripped very frequently but my mindset was very different. I dare say I was on a mission. I'd still have terrifying experiences, but my reaction was very different. I'd be anxious to trip again after a terrifying experience so I could go deeper. Nothing the psychedelic state threw at me would faze me enough to keep me from doing it again. I became pretty reckless with my desire to go deeper. Eventually reality caught up with me and I got a rude awakening about the path I was on. I got lots of benefits too (like curing a nasty persistent depression), so not saying it was in vain. It just got to be a bit misguided and I found myself having to relearn some basics about living after that. Well, now I don't trip anymore. Far from opposed to it but when I think about actually doing it I get a sort of icky feeling. I have little desire to go back now.
Felt the need to share all that because what you expect out of a trip isn't always what tripping is about. Perhaps your anxiety is trying to tell you about something you might have to face if you keep it up. I'm all about the importance of facing things you don't want to face, but I'm not about facing things you aren't ready to face. Yes, you can add drugs like benzos to keep tripping fun a while longer or get a sense of safety in knowing you can abort a difficult trip, but not my style. Alternatively, you can start preparing yourself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually for what might come. That's a journey in and of itself and not undertaken for tripping purposes, but it helped me face tripping again and go a lot deeper. Easiest would be to wait a while, maybe even years or decades if need be till your anxiety about it is manageable. Or you could trip anyways in spite of your anxiety. Just but be prepared to find out what it is you are anxious about. Psychedelics don't speak plain english; not always straightforward to understand and integrate difficult experiences that arise. It might be beneficial, but it could be harmful too. That depends on you and I can't say that for you. Not trying to scare but if you are completely unwilling to face something arising in a trip, be warned: it can shatter a person for a while.
All great and beautiful advice. Thanks for all the help. I know I will trip again soon because I want to face the root of this particular anxiety. What I've learned Is to face my fears. If things do get uncomfortable, I will cary a few benzos, And talk It out with my close friends because they understand (sorta) I feel like once I have another beautiful experience with LSD, I will no longer psych myself out, and continue to expand my insight and knowledge. If this continues to be a problem, I might have to take a break from psychedelic's but It's almost like giving away your favorite toy.
When you say It can shatter a person, what does that mean? Because I've been told this before and I'm interested as to what that means
I remember an extremely frightening, (well for the first part) trip on Salvia extract. I was convinced I was about to die, (Only Ego death but was scary). I had to lie there while I knew I was dying and I was never going to see loved ones again. When I realised what was happening was way beyond my control I welcomed it and went with it. That took me at least 3 months to integrate that experience and I didn't touch any other substances, (bar cannabis) while I fully got that message on board and what it meant to me.
These substances can cause highly stressful situations and this can cause all sorts of psychological problems, (anxiety, depression, ennui), and the difficult/frightening trips need to be meditated on and understood and fully accepted before moving on and using them again. I personally believe that most of the damage caused is by people who struggle against what he drug is telling them/showing them. If the time and effort is given these experiences can be the best trips as there is the best learning and understanding from them. As the Buddhists will tell you - non-acceptance causes much distress and suffering.
This is all my own understanding of my own experiences and we all find our own truths. IF I were you I would have a good break - several months at least - while you head gets around what has happened and while you develop mindfulness.
Another point - after pushing the envelope with 4-HO-MET I got caught in a loop of laughing hysterically and weeping I found it difficult to break it, (although it wasn't the most frightening - I was afraid I would wake those in the house and that would cause upset - wife and kids) and I had to force myself to sit and focus on my breathing this enabled all to subside and showed me that even when I am far out I am in control and it was very strengthening. Meditation - a damn bloody fine tripping tool!!
Best of luck discovering.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
you don't have to look much further than BL to find examples of people who have had distressing psychedelic trips with after-effects that lasted for some time. Anxiety, depression, confusion, depersonalization/derealization, HPPD, etc. Certain types of mental illness (borderline personality disorder comes up often) have been associated with negative experiences. One case I read about led to a person with BPD being hospitalized in a mental institution for a year. All that said, I've only read about these things, never met someone who experienced it. Most people I've talked to simply stop tripping after one of those difficult trips and and some feel unsettled for a while after, like the fear stays with them after the trip and they lose confidence and a feeling of control over their own lives. Time heals it though.
I would imagine that BPD may be manifesting itself around the time people are usually experimenting with drugs but I would doubt that the drugs 'caused' it:
Borderline personality disorder usually begins during adolescence or early adulthood.1,9 Some studies suggest that early symptoms of the illness may occur during childhood.10,11
Borderline PD
I can see how people may confuse the two but personality disorders are something entirely different from the traumas of bad trips. Considering the current line of thought is that personalities are more ort less set in stone form teh age of 6, (The Jesuit boast, 'Give me the child for his first seven years, and I'll give you the man" accurately reflects this).
But I couldn't agree more that the fear lingers and that time heals - put a distance between you and psychedelics for a bit while all falls into place and when you are healed then try again.