July Getting/Staying Sober and/or Clean vs It's really hot, I want an icecream!

[simco]

Have you thought about inpatient? It seems like you keep relapsing. Some time away would likely do you very good. If not inpatient then maybe IOP. I'd go get assessed at a treatment center, you sound like you need professional help, accountability and monitoring. You will also be exposed to people in a similar situation.

Also, I am sure you have heard "Could not live with or without drugs".

Do not take offense to this but recovery takes dedication and sometimes that dedication requires massive change. I think your goal of just trying to stop opiates while using other drugs is also making the problem worse. I tried to do shit like that for a good 10+ years and it never worked. I tried and tried to substitute.

Turns out it was just easier to stop everything. If you are like me, you will not even have the ability to figure out how to find some type of joy and peace until you hop off the madness that is using.

thanks, Phactor. no offense taken. we have an IOP program in town that has a good reputation. i've also been reading up on inpatient programs. i guess it's time to call in the pro's. thanks again.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

another day down

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I use cannabis extracts, caffeine, and occasionally salvia or alcohol.

This is the 3rd time I've replied to your question as to this matter...

Well no offense but you use a powerful mind-altering psychotropic plant, an extremely powerful hallucinogenic and an albeit common but still damaging and certainly intoxicating depressant. I mean even using one of those would negate the definition of "sobriety", I think using all three and still calling yourself sober is an affront to those of us who are truly sober, and you're not only being false with us but also engaging in self-deception if you really think you're clean. I think you should examine your motives for spending so much time on the "recovery" forum, making posts like "one more day down" when you know that you're still actually using drugs, and are not clean and sober at all.

 

[totach]

^
I have to disagree with you
I also still smoke pot or have a drink socially and I am %100 fine living my whole life that way
I do not consider myself "sober" but I do consider myself in recovery and do not see why you would tell captain not to focus so much in the recovery forum
I come to this forum to get help from other bluelighters to never touch my doc
So you can not tel me I'm not in recovery because I still drink or use pot
In reality every heroin addict would still drink socially if they didn't worry about drinking leading back to heroin
I've bin off heroin and Benzo for going on 6 months and I am very proud of myself and I choose to drink socially
I even go to aa meetings but do not share out of respect and I do not count days or any of that stuff because I do agree with you I am not sober but coming to.the recovery forum also never let's me forget where I came from and it gives me a opportunity to give back
We all view recovery in different ways and your post really stuck out to me because what you said to captain applies to me also and you have a right to your opinions so I am just voicing mine
Anyways I wish you the best in your recovery

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Well no offense but you use a powerful mind-altering psychotropic plant, an extremely powerful hallucinogenic and an albeit common but still damaging and certainly intoxicating depressant. I mean even using one of those would negate the definition of "sobriety", I think using all three and still calling yourself sober is an affront to those of us who are truly sober, and you're not only being false with us but also engaging in self-deception if you really think you're clean. I think you should examine your motives for spending so much time on the "recovery" forum, making posts like "one more day down" when you know that you're still actually using drugs, and are not clean and sober at all.

Believe it or not, some people can drink responsibly.

I am sorry you are suffering from alcoholism. Maybe one day you won't be jealous of others who can handle occasional drinking.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Believe it or not, some people can drink responsibly.

I am sorry you are suffering from alcoholism. Maybe one day you won't be jealous of others who can handle occasional drinking.

You've totally missed the point of what I said, intentionally I think. I've never had a problem with any drug other than heroin, but when I quit heroin but start smoking weed, drinking and doing salvia I don't then have the gall to call myself "sober" and post in this forum like I'm an example of someone who's quit drugs, posting messages like "another day down" when I know full well I'm not sober and still use drugs.

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

He's referring to being free and sober from his addiction, that's still a very big deal.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

He's referring to being free and sober from his addiction, that's still a very big deal.

You or him can bend the definition of "sobriety" as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that fundamentally you are NOT sober and NOT clean if you are still using mind-altering drugs, in any form. Yeah it's good that he's free from his heroin addiction but replacing it with salvia, alcohol and weed doesn't make him sober, and I think he's being misleading posting in this forum like he's an authority on recovery when he's ostensibly not sober.

 

[P0kemama]

Perhaps you are comparing Bluelight to other type of recovery forums? It has been my positive experience, as a member of Bluelight, that this forum prioritizes Harm Reduction. I have been treated with nothing but respect when I posted here and defining my own recovery in terms of harm reduction around my drug of choice.
The moderators don't "chastise" or shame us, and also respect that sobriety is an individual journey, fueled by a desire for harm reduction.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Perhaps you are comparing Bluelight to other type of recovery forums? It has been my positive experience, as a member of Bluelight, that this forum prioritizes Harm Reduction. I have been treated with nothing but respect when I posted here and defining my own recovery in terms of harm reduction around my drug of choice.
The moderators don't "chastise" or shame us, and also respect that sobriety is an individual journey, fueled by a desire for harm reduction.

I am not contesting that drinking, smoking weed and doing salvia is less harmful and destructive than heroin or disparaging CHs efforts in overcoming his addiction. Just that its somewhat misleading to present yourself as sober when you're still using drugs, and that when you use mind-altering substances you aren't totally clean or sober, which is the point of this thread.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Perhaps you are comparing Bluelight to other type of recovery forums? It has been my positive experience, as a member of Bluelight, that this forum prioritizes Harm Reduction. I have been treated with nothing but respect when I posted here and defining my own recovery in terms of harm reduction around my drug of choice.
The moderators don't "chastise" or shame us, and also respect that sobriety is an individual journey, fueled by a desire for harm reduction.

Thanks p0kemama

I thoroughly believe the reason I have no interest in opiates/heroin anymore (I can still obtain these and the needles for free) is because I am able to enjoy my life, and a little harmless fun with an occasional drink, or smoking pot, is no big deal.

If you force yourself through being "totally clean and sober", and you're clearly miserable by it, why are you doing it? Social acceptance? If you're not happy, it shouldn't matter what others think of you.

And what's the value in using absolutely no drugs? I think the goal is to be free of addiction; drugs aren't the enemy. Addiction is. Drugs in themselves don't cause addiction! Human beings, and their lives and brains, are the flawed ones. If we were all perfect, none of us would become drug addicts.

We should all have the goal of overcoming our shortcomings, or working around them. Some people will be able to use responsibly again one day, while most will not be able to. This is an irrelevant difference; if you're free of addiction, you're clean and sober.

 

[phactor]

thanks, Phactor. no offense taken. we have an IOP program in town that has a good reputation. i've also been reading up on inpatient programs. i guess it's time to call in the pro's. thanks again.

Let me know if you have any questions, I work in the field and am in a Grad Program for addiction counseling.

As for what is and what isn't "sober" or "clean", its up to the person. Even abstinence only programs like the ones I attend (NA/AA) make this clear. There was a kid last night in an NA meeting that was talking about how "only hard liquor was his problem", despite having several DUIs and a electronic alcohol monitor on his ankle. What difference did it make to me? None.

My personal definition of "clean" is my personal definition. Most people around here know that I do not use any substances, except for those that are prescribed. But I also take things like Valerian to help me sleep, I take some supplements for lifting as well. I have meet others who that is a no go for as well.

And yes, some people can learn moderation. I know I cannot (I tried and tried and tried and tried some more) but I have seen some others be able to do so.

Might I be able to do so someday? Very doubtful and its too much of a risk for me to find out.


------

Anyways, I have been all over the fucking place today. I was thinking about the situation with my GF/EX-GF (part of the major problem, its difficult to know where we stand) so much that I had to pack it in at the gym before even getting started. I have the day off tomorrow so I will go then. I ended up writing her a long message on facebook and she finally said she would give me a call tonight. I am not expecting anything to happen, she is still in at a 3/4ths house and still needs to focus on herself but I do hope I get a little clarity or at least find out how she is doing.


Relationships in recovery are really fucking hard people. Just putting it out there. Whatever happens with this one, it will be worth it for me but I need to point out that a major problem of mine when I was not using was that I didn't really get involved in relationships at all, so this has been a huge learning experience for me.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Thanks p0kemama

I thoroughly believe the reason I have no interest in opiates/heroin anymore (I can still obtain these and the needles for free) is because I am able to enjoy my life, and a little harmless fun with an occasional drink, or smoking pot, is no big deal.

If you force yourself through being "totally clean and sober", and you're clearly miserable by it, why are you doing it? Social acceptance? If you're not happy, it shouldn't matter what others think of you.

And what's the value in using absolutely no drugs? I think the goal is to be free of addiction; drugs aren't the enemy. Addiction is. Drugs in themselves don't cause addiction! Human beings, and their lives and brains, are the flawed ones. If we were all perfect, none of us would become drug addicts.

We should all have the goal of overcoming our shortcomings, or working around them. Some people will be able to use responsibly again one day, while most will not be able to. This is an irrelevant difference; if you're free of addiction, you're clean and sober.

Every drug has negative side effects, without exception. The value in not using any drugs I thought would be inherently obvious - to be healthy and happy. You claim not to be an addict in the same breath as stating that you are miserable without them - if being miserable without drugs isn't the definition of addiction what is? A truly clean and sober person doesn't need drugs to be happy - that's the point in being clean and recovered.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Every drug has negative side effects, without exception. The value in not using any drugs I thought would be inherently obvious - to be healthy and happy. You claim not to be an addict in the same breath as stating that you are miserable without them - if being miserable without drugs isn't the definition of addiction what is? A truly clean and sober person doesn't need drugs to be happy - that's the point in being clean and recovered.

I was implying you are miserable without drugs. I obviously use cannabis extracts. So how could I be miserable without drugs?

I'm abundantly aware you do not approve of the right to die, as I do. Don't ruin the emotional vibe of this thread with your hatred of me. There's other people who need support and love to get clean. You're clearly not a positive influence in this thread, so please take it to PM's if you feel the need to insult our intelligence.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I was implying you are miserable without drugs. I obviously use cannabis extracts. So how could I be miserable without drugs?

I'm abundantly aware you do not approve of the right to die, as I do. Don't ruin the emotional vibe of this thread with your hatred of me. There's other people who need support and love to get clean. You're clearly not a positive influence in this thread, so please take it to PM's if you feel the need to insult our intelligence.

Why do you keep putting words into my mouth? I am pro-choice when it comes to abortion and euthanasia, I never said I was unhappy without drugs, the fact that you use cannabis extract supports the statement that you are miserable without drugs - the fact that you use it suggests you are unhappy or unfulfilled without it. I never insulted yours or anyone else's intelligence either, rather than directly debating over the points at hand you seem to prefer to attack a statement that you've made up and attribute it to me....

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I did not forget your personal attack of me in TDS.

It seems you did...

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I did not forget your personal attack of me in TDS.

It seems you did...

Yeah I have. I'm sorry if I offended you. I came on here sporadically after taking lots of heroin to shit post. My bad if I was an asshole. I don't know why I'm here playing devils advocate to be honest, it's great that you've managed to kick the opiates entirely, its honestly an admirable feat, and cannabis & alcohol are hardly problematic for you clearly, so I'm glad that you've recovered from your addiction, and I hope you keep it up. I guess I'm just pissy cos i'm on bupe and my drug worker is forcing me to conform to her drawn out schedule of 4 weeks at every 2mg drop and I want to speed the process up and am just jealous of your sobriety is all. I hope you forgive me, and honestly well done.

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

Thanks p0kemama

I thoroughly believe the reason I have no interest in opiates/heroin anymore (I can still obtain these and the needles for free) is because I am able to enjoy my life, and a little harmless fun with an occasional drink, or smoking pot, is no big deal.

If you force yourself through being "totally clean and sober", and you're clearly miserable by it, why are you doing it? Social acceptance? If you're not happy, it shouldn't matter what others think of you.

And what's the value in using absolutely no drugs? I think the goal is to be free of addiction; drugs aren't the enemy. Addiction is. Drugs in themselves don't cause addiction! Human beings, and their lives and brains, are the flawed ones. If we were all perfect, none of us would become drug addicts.

We should all have the goal of overcoming our shortcomings, or working around them. Some people will be able to use responsibly again one day, while most will not be able to. This is an irrelevant difference; if you're free of addiction, you're clean and sober.

This really speaks to me, especially with the thoughts I've been having recently. Lately I've overcome my need to use drugs, and now know how it feels to be happy sober for once in my life. Drugs are no longer my crutch.

I feel that me swearing off drugs for such a long period of time may have been an overreaction. The straight-edge lifestyle just isn't for me. Inb4 I start to get the "that's your addiction talking" speech, I have not felt a need to use anything for any problem I've been presented. I've never been physically addicted to anything (by some miracle), only psychologically. I've been practicing good diet and exercise, as well as controlling my emotions and reacting to adversity in positive ways. I've rebuilt relationships and undone past damages that my former self has caused.

I've been looking into using psychedelics to expand my mind and find an even greater sense of self than I have already developed. I would still like to stay away from recreational and "just for the fuck of it" use and practice strict harm reduction. I think I've developed the perfect mindset for this. If I'm wrong, it's back on the wagon indefinitely.

What do you guys think?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

This really speaks to me, especially with the thoughts I've been having recently. Lately I've overcome my need to use drugs, and now know how it feels to be happy sober for once in my life. Drugs are no longer my crutch.

I feel that me swearing off drugs for such a long period of time may have been an overreaction. The straight-edge lifestyle just isn't for me. Inb4 I start to get the "that's your addiction talking" speech, I have not felt a need to use anything for any problem I've been presented. I've never been physically addicted to anything (by some miracle), only psychologically. I've been practicing good diet and exercise, as well as controlling my emotions and reacting to adversity in positive ways. I've rebuilt relationships and undone past damages that my former self has caused.

I've been looking into using psychedelics to expand my mind and find an even greater sense of self than I have already developed. I would still like to stay away from recreational and "just for the fuck of it" use and practice strict harm reduction. I think I've developed the perfect mindset for this. If I'm wrong, it's back on the wagon indefinitely.

What do you guys think?

There's certainly a good way about pursuing psychedelics (occasionally indulging with LSD or mushrooms, at normal doses with trusted friends/family) and a poor way about using psychedelics (compulsive dissociative use, or heavy/frequent use of research chemicals).

It can definitely help you get to a place of comfort and peace, it can be a very spiritual experience, and can be mind-opening and help you become a more creative individual. I'd have never become an author or noisician without using psychedelics.

Do you have any psychedelic drug experience?

Yeah I have. I'm sorry if I offended you. I came on here sporadically after taking lots of heroin to shit post. My bad if I was an asshole. I don't know why I'm here playing devils advocate to be honest, it's great that you've managed to kick the opiates entirely, its honestly an admirable feat, and cannabis & alcohol are hardly problematic for you clearly, so I'm glad that you've recovered from your addiction, and I hope you keep it up. I guess I'm just pissy cos i'm on bupe and my drug worker is forcing me to conform to her drawn out schedule of 4 weeks at every 2mg drop and I want to speed the process up and am just jealous of your sobriety is all. I hope you forgive me, and honestly well done.

Congratulations on your desire to get off Suboxone. You can do it. Thank you for being honest, I appreciate it.

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

I've done LSD and LSA a few times. My first trip was on LSD and it was wondrous, I went into it with an open mind and was not disappointed. My next few trips, not so much. I was just trying to recreate that experience, and as I'm sure you know, it didn't work.