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LSD and ego death

A ++++ experience isn't tied to how intense it is, according to the commonly accepted definition (Shulgin's definition). A ++++ state is a transcendent state which leads to a life-changing experience, something so real and profound that it changes your perception forever. I call my first trip, on mushrooms, a +4 because even though I only took a half eighth and I've tripped a lot harder on mushrooms and other things, my first trip was the most perfect awakening experience ever, I went from having no idea that human spirituality existed to experiencing oneness directly. I've experienced oneness more times than my first trip but only my first oneness experience was a +4 for me because after that it was something I'd already experienced so that intense magic of discovery wasn't there in subsequent times. Even though as far as how hard I was tripping in a perceptual sense wasn't as powerful as other times. IMO if you're applying ++++ to the intensity of the perceptual/physical effects of a trip, you're misunderstanding what a ++++ means.
 
A ++++ experience isn't tied to how intense it is, according to the commonly accepted definition (Shulgin's definition). A ++++ state is a transcendent state which leads to a life-changing experience, something so real and profound that it changes your perception forever. I call my first trip, on mushrooms, a +4 because even though I only took a half eighth and I've tripped a lot harder on mushrooms and other things, my first trip was the most perfect awakening experience ever, I went from having no idea that human spirituality existed to experiencing oneness directly. I've experienced oneness more times than my first trip but only my first oneness experience was a +4 for me because after that it was something I'd already experienced so that intense magic of discovery wasn't there in subsequent times. Even though as far as how hard I was tripping in a perceptual sense wasn't as powerful as other times. IMO if you're applying ++++ to the intensity of the perceptual/physical effects of a trip, you're misunderstanding what a ++++ means.

Hmm, this is a good explanation. Tbh I don't have a complete grasp of using the + scale for trip levels, which are difficult to scale objectively in the first place. Well, at least for me. So ego loss trips are specifically reserved for the ++++ scale? Heh, we really do learn something new everyday.

I've only had one trip that I put on that level, but only because my vision was gone and so were all physical sensations. Granted, they lasted about a few minutes at a time and were sporadic for a while. I haven't experienced something that extreme ever, so I was thinking a +++ wouldn't do it justice.

Oh well. I've been wondering if I was close to an OD or not, since that might've been the case. But I'm taking a break because I figured what I chose to do was reckless, even if a little bit, so I need to punish myself by going into time out. :)
 
A ++++ does not necessarily mean ego loss/death I don't think, but any experience that somehow stands out as being incredibly unique/special/life changing or whatever, without necessarily being simply intense. Like in my whole 20-30 psychedelic experiences the only two I would consider rating a ++++ would be my third MDMA experience and the day that I took LSD for the first time, and took MDMA 9 hours into it. Even though I've had more ego loss (I've never aimed for or experienced a full ego death yet), more intensity, more visuals etc from other trips.
 
Unless you defacate in your trousers it's probably not an ego death.
 
I really wouldn't bother trying to make sense of anything when you're in that state. Ego death is really chaotic.

Indeed it is. When I had it happen to me on a high dose of LSD I lost the ability to hear, speak, and comprehend language.

It sounds scary; but I just went with it, and was OK.
 
Imagine going blind, losing your sense of hearing, touch, etc. but at a more fundamental level in which consciousness takes place. Not literally of course, but for all intents and purposes when you're in a state of ego death there is no distinct sense of seeing, touching, hearing, etc. It all gets globbed together into one big chaotic sensory soup that you can either lie down and let wash over you, or resist it and experience the utter terror of knowing that you have been cut off from all your core, finely evolved survival faculties and executive control mechanisms and are thus now at the complete mercy of the world.
 
When the first signs of the ego death started taking place ( btw I didmt know what ego death was, really confusing first time it happemed) I thought I was just trippin and couldnt fall asleep yet. Then around 3am (i took it a 6pm) my senses went away and I "awoke" from it 6 hours later. Six hours holy crap so out of words when I came to.
 
Yes, it should be a mind-opening experience. I came out of it fully enlightened, although what I discovered specifically on miprocin was simple and kind of a "duh!" type of realization. One of those that seem plain in hindsight, but to have gotten to the understanding was remarkably out of my conscious reach. Go figure.

I'll share it for the first time. :)

I (sort of) discovered that every person, and even certain classes/families of animals, are bound by their egos. We literally live and die by them. We all start at the same point, in which prior to the development of the ego, there is a sameness or oneness that is unified. From there, we are free to rewrite the variability of the creation of the ego in all of its infinite combinations and complexity, yet it is limited. For whatever reason, my mind came up with a lion (I'm serious). It is born, then it hunts, feeds, and searches for its place in life along with finding a mate to procreate. All of this not because of instincts, for whatever reason, but the ego. It controls the animal, thereby limiting it and hitting a wall, but at the same time the individuality of each spirit of the animal makes each ego unique and different. One might like to eat zebras more than rabbits, etc. We, as humans, are no different. We are limited by our ego, and we all start at the same point but we are all unique at the same time. Not a single person in all of history will ever have the same life as another, but what's the same is that our ego will have us eat, play, learn, hate, buy a car/house, punch a monkey, or whatever. This consumes us, naturally, and this is the limit of our...limitation. Our ego is bound by its own needs, wants, and desires, which is actually no different from an animal. It was at this point I realized why I saw those demon-moose beings. I was momentarily in animal kingdom. -_-

There was more to it, but this is what I remember at the moment and it's most of it. Quite elementary/dumb when you read it, but the fact that I never consciously thought of all this until I got into miprocin's vegetable state blew me away...well, until I looked at it in retrospect (just like everyone else who ends up reading this). It's definitely a "duh!" realization, and I even thought so right after the trip, but for certain I feel like most of us are at least subconsciously aware of all of this. And for certain I was never told this by anyone in this way, nor did I think of it in this way before either. So yeah, quite simple, but imo quite mind opening tbh. The visuals definitely connected to those realizations, especially at the creation where we start at that same point (where there was a base inside a bright 3D graphical pattern), but then it becomes an infinite variable after the ego matures (the light becomes scattered by connecting to an indiscernible amount of endpoints, completing that spherical 3D graphical pattern surrounding the base).

That's all I got for that one. :)
 
I thought an elaboration on the Freudian concept of ego is interesting. So there is this.
Wikipedia said:
Ego

The ego (Latin "I")[16] acts according to the reality principle; i.e. it seeks to please the id's drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bring grief.[17] At the same time, Freud concedes that as the ego "attempts to mediate between id and reality, it is often obliged to cloak the Ucs. [Unconscious] commands of the id with its own Pcs. [ Preconscious ] rationalizations, to conceal the id's conflicts with reality, to profess ... to be taking notice of reality even when the id has remained rigid and unyielding."[18] The reality principle that operates the ego is a regulating mechanism that enables the individual to delay gratifying immediate needs and function effectively in the real world. An example would be to resist the urge to grab other people's belongings, but instead to purchase those items.[19]

The ego is the organized part of the personality structure that includes defensive, perceptual, intellectual-cognitive, and executive functions. Conscious awareness resides in the ego, although not all of the operations of the ego are conscious. Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defense, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory.[1] The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organize our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us.[1] "The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world. ... The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense, in contrast to the id, which contains the passions ... in its relation to the id it is like a man on horseback, who has to hold in check the superior strength of the horse; with this difference, that the rider tries to do so with his own strength, while the ego uses borrowed forces."[20] Still worse, "it serves three severe masters ... the external world, the super-ego and the id."[18] Its task is to find a balance between primitive drives and reality while satisfying the id and super-ego. Its main concern is with the individual's safety and allows some of the id's desires to be expressed, but only when consequences of these actions are marginal. "Thus the ego, driven by the id, confined by the super-ego, repulsed by reality, struggles ... [in] bringing about harmony among the forces and influences working in and upon it," and readily "breaks out in anxiety—realistic anxiety regarding the external world, moral anxiety regarding the super-ego, and neurotic anxiety regarding the strength of the passions in the id."[21] It has to do its best to suit all three, thus is constantly feeling hemmed by the danger of causing discontent on two other sides. It is said, however, that the ego seems to be more loyal to the id, preferring to gloss over the finer details of reality to minimize conflicts while pretending to have a regard for reality. But the super-ego is constantly watching every one of the ego's moves and punishes it with feelings of guilt, anxiety, and inferiority.

To overcome this the ego employs defense mechanisms. The defense mechanisms are not done so directly or consciously. They lessen the tension by covering up our impulses that are threatening.[22] Ego defense mechanisms are often used by the ego when id behavior conflicts with reality and either society's morals, norms, and taboos or the individual's expectations as a result of the internalization of these morals, norms, and their taboos.

Denial, displacement, intellectualisation, fantasy, compensation, projection, rationalization, reaction formation, regression, repression, and sublimation were the defense mechanisms Freud identified. However, his daughter Anna Freud clarified and identified the concepts of undoing, suppression, dissociation, idealization, identification, introjection, inversion, somatisation, splitting, and substitution.
"The ego is not sharply separated from the id; its lower portion merges into it.... But the repressed merges into the id as well, and is merely a part of it. The repressed is only cut off sharply from the ego by the resistances of repression; it can communicate with the ego through the id." (Sigmund Freud, 1923)

In a diagram of the Structural and Topographical Models of Mind, the ego is depicted to be half in the consciousness, while a quarter is in the preconscious and the other quarter lies in the unconscious.

In modern English, ego has many meanings. It could mean one’s self-esteem; an inflated sense of self-worth; the conscious-thinking self;[23] or in philosophical terms, one’s self. Ego development is known as the development of multiple processes, cognitive function, defenses, and interpersonal skills or to early adolescence when ego processes are emerged.[17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_(Freudian)#Ego
 
Och Yer arse.
Maybe I'm different to most people but the first 10 or so times I smoked weed were the most crazy and intense drug experiences of my life. Half a joint would put me flat on my back for a good hour, unable to move. Ego death and ++++ experiences weren't uncommon. I used to get strong feelings of being in motion; the most common was the sensation of being on a trampoline but at 10x speed.
The closest thing I can compare it to now is a combination of DPT and MXE (both nasal).
 
I thought an elaboration on the Freudian concept of ego is interesting. So there is this.

Worth pointing out that the Freud idea of ego has been completely discredited over the last 100 years and no-one thinks it has any basis in reality.
 
Because he's never experienced it despite a lot of intense tripping. We've had this discussion many times over the years in PD. I've come to expect his jabs in every thread where this discussion is taking place.
 
Maybe I'm different to most people but the first 10 or so times I smoked weed were the most crazy and intense drug experiences of my life. Half a joint would put me flat on my back for a good hour, unable to move. Ego death and ++++ experiences weren't uncommon. I used to get strong feelings of being in motion; the most common was the sensation of being on a trampoline but at 10x speed.
The closest thing I can compare it to now is a combination of DPT and MXE (both nasal).

My early days of weed smoking were some of the most intense drug experiences of my life too (though some trips have beaten it, not most of them though). I never felt any particularly ego-reducing properties but I experienced the intense sense of motion and all sorts of visual phenomena, and a drastically altered mindstate. It was a hell of a trip back then.
 
Yeah I agree, no life-changing, breakthrough experiences, just some of the most intense ones I've ever had.
 
Haha, there's always gotta be someone like Ismene to present the polar opposite of...whatever. It does tend to keep all things in perspective.

I have a friend just like that so it's actually comfortable and yes, expected in a way.

The "epiphanies" while experiencing ego loss should come naturally and without conscious effort. There is no "I'm trying to figure this out, or I'm going to solve this." It just happens.

For the record, Freudian concepts are more like theories than anything else. But it is a fact that the sense of self starts being written around the early stages of life, around 2-5 years, and then it'll take off from there. Whether we want to term it ego, or take the theories of other psychological studies, is another ball game.

I'm not sure about animals, but a guess would suffice anyway imo.

I wonder what other people discover during these ++++ experiences? Or am I the only one with a loud mouth/keyboard?

Another notable occurrence was that during that phase, I never once included myself in those thoughts. I was entirely focused on the "you, they, them, we, us." I'm quite introverted so I thought that was interesting because I noticed that right after the trip was over.

And to Ismene-I've come to the conclusion that maybe you are not making yourself susceptible to an ego loss state. Or it could be your subconscious possibly blocking it, therefore out of your control? Well, who knows. Though you seem to have that stone cold, grounded-in-reality type of approach to just about everything, so a state such as this one will probably have no benefit to you. As it is definitely in the land of the unknown, and the abstract.
 
Worth pointing out that the Freud idea of ego has been completely discredited over the last 100 years and no-one thinks it has any basis in reality.

This ^ is entirely false and uninformed nonsense, noone has ever "discredited" any of Freud's ideas, and they continue to form the fundamental basis and cornerstone of the study of the human mind (psychology, psychotherapy, psychiatry etc). Everyone who studies the human mind will be grounded in Freud's ideas, all psychological theories that have been formulated since Freud's day are centrally based on Freud's original concepts.

However the Freudian concept of "ego" has no connection at all with "ego" as in "psychedelic ego death". They are two entirely separate concepts, although they are spelled the same.
 
Another notable occurrence was that during that phase, I never once included myself in those thoughts. I was entirely focused on the "you, they, them, we, us." I'm quite introverted so I thought that was interesting because I noticed that right after the trip was over.

I agree... part of the transcendental, +4 experience for me is the total moving past the self-reference frame into the all. In my first experience (my first trip), I was still aware of my current subjective self but I was equally aware of everything else, and none was of greater importance than the rest. I was conscious that I was still seeing and perceiving through the eyes of Xorkoth, but mentally/spiritually I was much more than that. That's why it was life-changing to such a great degree, I actually experienced being the whole. I would call it extreme ego dissolution but not total ego loss, but it was equally informative. The second time it happened, on 2C-E, I actually did completely lose my ego for a time, I had absolutely no recollection of Xorkoth anymore, only a single point of universal consciousness alone in a yawning void, aware I had just lost the subjective universe but the vastness of it entirely blew Xorkoth out of my awareness. And to get there I died kicking and screaming and was blown away in the cosmic breeze. That was a true ego death.
 
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