Fucked up on heroin big time. Need urgent help. Please

[Pagey]

Wow. Well thanks for taking time out of your life to make me feel worse. Really, cheers.

 

[SummerSerenade]

That is not a very compelling reason to use. Just saying.

Think it's irrelevant how compelling or not you think it is, it was clearly compelling enough for Pagey. No matter how big or small the reason for her or anyone else using again, the end result is the same and comments like that aren't going to help with anything.

Just saying though like.

 

[da man]

heroin is an amazingly strong psychological addiction. i find myself using reasons like this to use all the time. You justify it in your head for a reason to use. Its a big part of the addiction as many know. So i know exactly where your coming from. in your current condition any minor issue will trigger those feelings IMO.

 

[eLW]

Pagey, you can just stop it if you want it. You are enough intelligent to do so.

 

[Shambles]

Pagey, you can just stop it if you want it. You are enough intelligent to do so.

I'm sure you mean that in the very best of ways but it's not entirely pleasing to suggest that addiction is purely a matter of intelligence. You do realise you just suggested vast numbers of people are simply a bit thick, yes?

 

[Ismene]

Hang in there Pagey - a bit of iron self-discipline for a few days will pay dividends in the future.

And if there's anymore willy-wiggling in this thread they will have me to answer to.

 

[Munchkoala]

Have you tried ibogaine?

 

[Wenlock]

I'm sure you mean that in the very best of ways but it's not entirely pleasing to suggest that addiction is purely a matter of intelligence. You do realise you just suggested vast numbers of people are simply a bit thick, yes?

Not thick, just weak willed.

 

[amnesiaseizure]

Hey there Pagey, so sorry to hear this has made a comeback in your life, it sucks doesn't it? I remember when I was using I'd be weighing up whether to score or not and the next thing I knew my legs would be taking me there - it actually felt as though the part of me that wanted to use was independently driving me and was the clear winner whenever a decision had to be made.

Maybe you're at the point of taking a harm reduction attitude rather than a black and white/use or not use approach? Calling yourself a "smack head" won't help much either, you're still yourself but with the addition of a problem with heroin. I say this because when you're in this cycle of beating yourself up every time you buy a bag you're pretty much setting yourself up for the next one too. Go easy on yourself. Talk to someone about this. Try a few drug agencies?....from what I can remember London has quite a few and you're bound to find someone you relate to if you 'shop around'.

In terms of methadone, it would be a useful tool but only if you are going to be strict and using it as a way of stopping in the short term a la Blondin's advice. Once you start using it as a safety net you'll end up with a bigger habit than before. My gut tells me you'd end up with the latter issue. And no offence Blondin, but as an example you continue to use and probably will for years to come.

So, can you afford financially to use a bag or so a day? If you can then it's worth weighing up the option of doing so. I'm not saying this would be best, only that it could be the best of a difficult bunch - it could also be the worst, only you can answer this one. Although I've managed to stop using heroin now for over 2 years I still use codeine regularly but am ok with this. For me, it works. When I'm ready to give this up too I have the belief that I will. There is a good reason why you relapsed and why you continue to relapse. Either you face it head on or you make amends with your addict and work/use together in the least harmful way possible at the moment.

Like others have said, the big picture involves sorting out your MA and getting through it as this will impact on many years to comes (as will heroin use, potentially). I relapsed 10months into a 3 year nursing diploma and managed to pass the course whilst under the influence for the duration. I honestly don't know if I could of done it sober - although I'll never know. It made life really really hard but like I say, there is the chance that I needed that drama and relief that heroin/methadone/valium/cannabis brought to make it through as I've always really struggled with completing academic courses. I was a wreck by the end and a few months into working as a nurse afterwards I basically had to tell the NMC what was going on. It then took from the end of 2012 until 2014 to get my registration back. So, gear got me through on one hand and then screwed it up for a while too.

My only real suggestion for you is to give yourself a week or so of being as kind as you can to yourself, which could involve gear, and have a good sort out of what's happening in your life right now. What does your fiancé think about it all? Could he support you if he knows you're using?

Ask yourself what would it actually feel like to face life sober at the moment too. What feelings are you struggling with and what issues are causing you the most difficulty? Make a list - lists are a good way of getting shit from out of your head and seeing them as separate from you. Prioritise what needs doing .

I wish you the best in this, addiction is no joke and will be something you have to deal with time and time again, whether you're picking up the drugs or not.

 

[lurching]

Good read, thanks for that sir seizure, I could identify with much of that. Your last line is so stupidly true

(ps. discussing the relationship between intelligence and willpower is probably something for another thread)

 

[pjd555]

I'm sorry but this is not about a return to addiction and people should not be leading her down the path of substitution treatments. We are talking about a binge response to an underlying problem which needs addressing. A lot of the advice in this thread will turn her into someone who identifies as and will get treated as a junkie. She is not in need of methadone, clonidine, buprenorphine, ludicrous doses of codeine which can have a paradoxical effect of creating symptoms associated with withdrawal or any other substitution treatment. She needs support for a mental health issue. I have chosen to understand and specialise in addiction and some of the advice given in this thread is a special kind of stupid.

 

[BecomingJulie]

What's the view like from that ivory tower?

A person can have more serious problems in their life than a drug habit. Sometimes, getting temporarily stable is more important than getting off.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

Wow. Well thanks for taking time out of your life to make me feel worse. Really, cheers.

was joking. lol.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

I'm sorry but this is not about a return to addiction and people should not be leading her down the path of substitution treatments. We are talking about a binge response to an underlying problem which needs addressing. A lot of the advice in this thread will turn her into someone who identifies as and will get treated as a junkie. She is not in need of methadone, clonidine, buprenorphine, ludicrous doses of codeine which can have a paradoxical effect of creating symptoms associated with withdrawal or any other substitution treatment. She needs support for a mental health issue. I have chosen to understand and specialise in addiction and some of the advice given in this thread is a special kind of stupid.

word. those labels stick. you want to avoid being labelled a junkie if you can.

 

[pjd555]

What's the view like from that ivory tower?

A person can have more serious problems in their life than a drug habit. Sometimes, getting temporarily stable is more important than getting off.

The issue here is that she is not really on. A week on heroin followed by a codeine supported detox and another dabble doesn't come close to opioid addiction requiring replacement therapy and Pagey's own account is proof of that. It is not about ivory towers but simple reality. Insufflation of heroin causes a partial but slow direct to bloodstream introduction of heroin combined (by sniffing through) with a partial oral introduction of morphine resulting from first-pass metabolism. The crap street heroin is cut with means insufflation becomes increasingly less effective because contaminant build up reduces absorption efficiency in the mucous membrane. Once you choose that route you are effectively tapering the minute you start.

 

[BecomingJulie]

The issue here is that she is not really on. A week on heroin followed by a codeine supported detox and another dabble doesn't come close to opioid addiction requiring replacement therapy and Pagey's own account is proof of that.

Fair enough.

Would you say there is a bit of a Dunning-Krüger effect going on with respect to addiction, whereby people with very mild habits tend to overestimate the severity of their habit and those who are deeply addicted tend to underestimate it?

It is not about ivory towers but simple reality.

OK, I'll admit it: I was a bit quick to judge you.

Insufflation of heroin causes a partial but slow direct to bloodstream introduction of heroin combined (by sniffing through) with a partial oral introduction of morphine resulting from first-pass metabolism. The crap street heroin is cut with means insufflation becomes increasingly less effective because contaminant build up reduces absorption efficiency in the mucous membrane. Once you choose that route you are effectively tapering the minute you start.

Now that is interesting. I hadn't really thought about it that way before. Mainly because up the nose has simply never been my favourite RoA for any drug, I suppose .....

 

[pjd555]

Firstly unless it was #4 im v surprised you got high let alone wd's as the BA of snorting B is very low as its base and not water soluble so is very hard to get absorbed - te very few times i did it i just got a blocked nose and felt nothing in fact it was on a train and 6 hours later i stated to witdrawer but thats by the by.

There are a number of options,,as pointed out, if it were me i would keep taking gear just at a level to keep wd's at bay , to get thro' the next week/s then think about getting off. I don't know if you could pull a week sickie (probably not with exams) te options have all been gone through, clonadine and lofexadine don't really nail it and only help a little plus the BP effects are nasty and would make it V hard to work. Its amazing how little gear you need to stay 'well' as long as you have the self controll. Methadone is an option and is easily done if you have none in yer system; a 2 week taper from it is very doable with hardly any bad after effects , maybe a touch of PAWS but as you have only used for a short time it shouldn't be much of an issue.
The main thing is to be comfortable when taking yer exams - which ever route you take

Fair enough.

Would you say there is a bit of a Dunning-Krüger effect going on with respect to addiction, whereby people with very mild habits tend to overestimate the severity of their habit and those who are deeply addicted tend to underestimate it?OK, I'll admit it: I was a bit quick to judge you.Now that is interesting. I hadn't really thought about it that way before. Mainly because up the nose has simply never been my favourite RoA for any drug, I suppose .....

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a two way street. Essentially, stupid people don't realise they are stupid and clever people don't immediately recognise stupid people because cleverness comes easily to clever people and they assume cleverness is normal. As far as addiction is concerned the effect is seen on both sides of the street. The ones travelling on the stupid side of the road get addicted to something in exactly the same way as the ones travelling on the clever side of the road. They found something enjoyable and continued to do it until for psychological, physiological or a combination of both reasons they accidently became something they never wanted to be. I have never met an addict who deliberately set out to become one and there is a pretty even split in terms of which side of the street they were travelling on. The Dunning-Kruger effect then plays out on both sides to reinforce the addiction because both sides now belong to a cohort of similar behaviour and the stupids are too stupid to see that much of their cohort is talking nonsense and the clevers assume the people talking nonsense are clever.

 

[Shambles]

I have never met an addict who deliberately set out to become one...

I did. Was very much a conscious decision. Obviously I had no real insight into what the reality of addiction was when I made that decision but it was very much a decision all the same. I wanted to be a heroin addict. So I sought out heroin and used it until I became addicted. I actually find it a little odd that anybody taking drugs like heroin could not be making a decision to become an addict - it's not like the relationship between taking addictive substances and becoming addicted to those substances is some arcane mystery known only to adepts.

Also, I would describe myself as both quite clever and quite stupid. In my experience this applies to everybody - it's just the ratio the two have and the forms they take that differs.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I did. Was very much a conscious decision. Obviously I had no real insight into what the reality of addiction was when I made that decision but it was very much a decision all the same. I wanted to be a heroin addict. So I sought out heroin and used it until I became addicted. I actually find it a little odd that anybody taking drugs like heroin could not be making a decision to become an addict - it's not like the relationship between taking addictive substances and becoming addicted to those substances is some arcane mystery known only to adepts.

Also, I would describe myself as both quite clever and quite stupid. In my experience this applies to everybody - it's just the ratio the two have and the forms they take that differs.

I can very much relate to that Shambles. In my case I wouldn't say it was a conscious decision, but I did fuck all to stop it happening and I admit to having had a perverse desire to experience withdrawal - which i regretted when it finally happened. It was the worst thing - no second worst thing - I ever did. The worst thing i did was becoming a crackhead, simply because of the amount of dosh I blew. My sheer stupidity is highlighted by the fact I didn't get a habit till the age of 30 - old enough to know better (though I'm sure it would have happened a lot sooner if it had been on tap).

 

[pjd555]

There is always a conscious decision to use and people know that continuous use can lead to an addiction they might have enormous difficulty getting out of. But when I talk to patients I see that strange dichotomy seen in most addicts which goes along the lines of "I never thought it would get this bad but I'm not ready be not be this bad". I have, actually, come across someone who did set out to become an addict and it is one of the strangest things I have ever seen in a sane individual. He wanted an excuse to not work and took it to an extreme I have never encountered since. He took a holiday to an Eastern European country which was, at the time under Soviet rule and, having researched what he was about to do and knowing of the paucity of specialist centres in the region, pulled off a magnificent performance of a major tonic clonic seizure replete with loss of bowel control and a tongue bite. The icing on the cake was a postictal state with automaton behaviour which bystanders could recount to the ambulance staff. When the ambulance arrived an hour later he was conscious but 'confused' and the hospital could find no cause and put it in the idiopathic box. Over a couple of weeks he reported losses of time, bruises and soiling himself during waking hours in his hotel. He reported adverse response or inadequate control to every drug tried until he settled on the one he always wanted, phenobarbital. After a few months he returned to the UK and continued with phenobarbital because it would not be advisable to investigate alternatives at great cost when his condition was so perfectly controlled. After 5 or 6 years a relative in a fit (excuse the pun) of rage told me what a fraud he was.

With regard to the stupid/clever thing, competence is not a thing which varnishes every aspect of a life and, yes, we are all half stupid and half clever.