The Ferguson Thread: Part II

[L2R]

More than 1.2 American's currently have HIV. That's the documented cases, there are likely many more than are unaware of their infection



You could have said the same thing at the early onset of the HIV epidemic, people weren't "dropping like flies" in America after the initial outbreak in Africa. It's about preventative measures, not waiting until it's an epidemic like HIV/AIDS to take measures.

we've missed the boat on HIV, dude. no border policy will make a shred of difference in that regard. luckily for those 1.2 people, HIV isn't the death sentence it once was. it's is currently very manageable. i am friends with a few positive people, tbh. they lead normal and healthy lives.

as for ebola, if it was a real issue, it would become very apparent very quickly. this is unlike HIV in the 80's.

 

[LosBlancos]

we've missed the boat on HIV, dude. no border policy will make a shred of difference in that regard. luckily for those 1.2 people, HIV isn't the death sentence it once was. it's is currently very manageable. i am friends with a few positive people, tbh. they lead normal and healthy lives.

as for ebola, if it was a real issue, it would become very apparent very quickly. this is unlike HIV in the 80's.

So we've missed the boat? No harm in letting in a couple thousand Sub-Saharan African's that are positive and might infect in turn thousands of Americans. It is manageable so I'm sure they won't mind, plus I'm sure Obamacare will cover their cocktail's costs.

Working with the idea of Utilitarianism: the greatest good for the greatest number of people. The benefit of one poor African with HIV becoming a citizen is far outweighed by the costs of having to pay for their treatment in our health care system and the potential for dozens of Americans to become infected as a result of them residing here.

 

[L2R]

So we've missed the boat? No harm in letting in a couple thousand Sub-Saharan African's that are positive and might infect in turn thousands of Americans. It is manageable so I'm sure they won't mind, plus I'm sure Obamacare will cover their cocktail's costs.

please stop polluting ce&p with your spank fantasies.

Working with the idea of Utilitarianism: the greatest good for the greatest number of people. The benefit of one poor African with HIV becoming a citizen is far outweighed by the costs of having to pay for their treatment in our health care system and the potential for dozens of Americans to become infected as a result of them residing here.

fuck utilitarianism. according to utilitarianism we should harvest organs from random poor people, because for each several rich people can lead slightly longer or more capable lives.

 

[LosBlancos]

fuck utilitarianism. according to utilitarianism we should harvest organs from random poor people, because for each several rich people can lead slightly longer or more capable lives.

Now that sir is the definition of a straw man.

 

[L2R]

Now that sir is the definition of a straw man.

how so? i am interest to know how what i typed is even remotely a strawman.

 

[LosBlancos]

how so? i am interest to know how what i typed is even remotely a strawman.

Going from "greatest good for the greatest number of people" which is a valid philosophy and denigrating it to something like "harvesting organs from the poor" is exactly that.

Take a heart from a poor person and give it to a rich person, is that Utilitarianism in action? No, it's letting one person live, while the other dies, not the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

In this case it would be allowing one person in with a highly communicable deadly disease, who benefits from this? Only that person at risk of many many American citizens. The polar opposite of Utilitarianism. The state of one person being more important than the safety of the masses.

 

[L2R]

Going from "greatest good for the greatest number of people" which is a valid philosophy and denigrating it to something like "harvesting organs from the poor" is exactly that.

Take a heart from a poor person and give it to a rich person, is that Utilitarianism in action? No, it's letting one person live, while the other dies, not the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

In this case it would be allowing one person in with a highly communicable deadly disease, who benefits from this? Only that person at risk of many many American citizens. The polar opposite of Utilitarianism. The state of one person being more important than the safety of the masses.

a single person has many organs, and so many lives can be spared with the sacrifice of the one.

i see you haven't actually studied this, have you?

 

[LosBlancos]

a single person has many organs, and so many lives can be spared with the sacrifice of the one.

i see you haven't actually studied this, have you?

What moral philosophy would you prefer to follow? I support reasonable Utilitarianism my view on immigration is that no one is actively harmed by not giving them the privilege of being admitted to the United States, they are kept in their current state (nothing has changed for them) whilst dozens of citizens of the United States avoid having a chronic disease that requires thousands of dollars in medication every year.

Did Jeremy Bentham, the father of Utilitarianism call for harvesting one persons organs to spare the lives of many? That almost seems like your Marxist ideology there, harvesting the money of one person to give out to many.

 

[LosBlancos]

L2R you seem quick to bash Utilitarianism for it's ideas, which the philosophy doesn't even implicitly state. You seem to interpret "the greatest good for the greatest number of people" as meaning "harvest the organs of one person to spare many people" Have you read the Quran? Why do you have such strong sentiments against Utilitarianism but a special place in your heart for Islam?

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

 

[L2R]

1- you seem to have latched onto one saying from utilitarianism and have failed to actually comprehend it further. well done.
2- you seem to have forgotten how the term utilitarianism was raised in this thread
3- you didn't understand my objection to your use of utilitarianism
4- you forgot to point out how i made a strawman fallacy (proving you still don't know what that means)
5- you suggest my criticism of utilitarianism has some bearing on my position on islam.
6- you assume my position on islam even though i have never made any comment on the religion itself

seriously, i have more substantial conversations with my 3 year old.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

The disease is believed to have originated in Western Africa, and was spread from chimpanzees to humans. Assuming Western tourists didn't go enjoy masse to Africa to eat chimpanzees or have unprotected sex with Africans, it likely spread through migration of infected people. Currently sub-Saharan Africa accounts for 67% of the infections in the world. Using any kind of logic any significant immigration from this region pose much higher risk than migrants from other regions: a risk to the health of our citizens and a potential strain on health care resources should the disease spread.

The first case in Europe that we know of was due to an infected European who was both a sailor and a truck driver, and likely spread HIV around Europe.

So it wasn't a Western tourist, but a Western worker.

 

[cashfl0w_d0nkey]

John Stuart Mill expounded on Jeremy Bentham's original conceptualization of utilitarianism to account for the argument L2R proposed. The improved version emphasizes that it is difficult to quantify pleasure and pain and therefore the focus should be on minimizing pain, rather than maximizing pleasure for the greater good.

 

[LosBlancos]

5- you suggest my criticism of utilitarianism has some bearing on my position on islam.
6- you assume my position on islam even though i have never made any comment on the religion itself

seriously, i have more substantial conversations with my 3 year old.

I suppose if utilitarianism had more minority adherents then youd be ready to adamantly defend it. You'd be saying organ harvesting is a perversion of utilitarianism thought.

Oh never made a comment on Islam, your well clever in constantly dodging that issue then in the numerous threads on the topic. Easier to spout on about peace and love with no substance than actually comment on the issue.

 

[paranoid android]

Anyway more back on topic St. Louis City Hall Meeting Interrupted By Brawl

The meeting at City Hall allegedly took a turn for the worse after an exchange between St. Louis Alderman Terry Kennedy and Jeff Roorda of the St. Louis Police Officers Association, St. Louis Post-Dispatch's Nicholas Pistor reported. Roorda allegedly yelled from the audience, "How about some order here," after a police officer's statement was interrupted by other attendees, according to the St. Louis American. Alderman Kennedy replied, "You do not tell me my function," after which Roorda began moving to the front of the room, pushing a woman on his way, according to those at the scene. Social media posted by those at the meeting suggested that Roorda had been involved in the altercation.

So the cops come off as more then abit thuggish here. Apparently they don't like being challenged on their authority very much.

 

[L2R]

I suppose if utilitarianism had more minority adherents then youd be ready to adamantly defend it. You'd be saying organ harvesting is a perversion of utilitarianism thought.

minorities have nothing to do with whether i think utilitarianism has any merit. to think otherwise is just childish.

p.s. the organ harvesting argument is actually problematic. if you had actually known anything about utilitarianism, you would have picked my response apart. so, in future it would be peachy if you refrain from subjects you know nothing about (i.e. distributive theory, economics, common fallacies, immigration, etca)

Oh never made a comment on Islam, your well clever in constantly dodging that issue then in the numerous threads on the topic. Easier to spout on about peace and love with no substance than actually comment on the issue.

i have only been asking questions about your "fuck darkies" position, which is easy to pick apart because it is built entirely on your own arbitrary biases and prejudices.

besides, religions and distributive theories are two very different things.

 

[LosBlancos]

so, in future it would be peachy if you refrain from subjects you know nothing about (i.e. distributive theory, economics, common fallacies, immigration, etca)

Can you be anymore condescending? I don't claim to be an expert on these issues, I am however quite well-read and a graduate of a prestigious university. Maybe if I watch every episode of Russel Brand's Trews or The Young Turks I will ascend to your almighty level of knowledge on these subjects. Your views on these issues are infallible like a decree from the Pope himself.

i have only been asking questions about your "fuck darkies" position, which is easy to pick apart because it is built entirely on your own arbitrary biases

When all else fails, scream "racism".

 

[L2R]

Can you be anymore condescending?

yes, i can indeed.

it's "any more" not "anymore". these two have very different meanings.

I don't claim to be an expert on these issues, I am however quite well-read and a graduate of a prestigious university.

Lolkudos

Maybe if I watch every episode of Russel Brand's Trews or The Young Turks I will ascend to your almighty level of knowledge on these subjects.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't watch those channels, so i couldn't say if they are any good or not. I am actually quite annoyed by the number of "russel brand DESTROYS [insert argument here]" videos posted on facebook. it's so juvenile, it actually makes me avoid his videos.

Your views on these issues are infallible like a decree from the Pope himself.

indeed. the pope has a very many shortcomings, quite like i do. nice use of sarcasm, by the way. well done. no, not the one you attempted.

When all else fails, scream "racism".

this has never actually happened from me, and as far as i can tell nor has it been apparent on bluelight in my 14 years posting/moderating on this site.

 

[ebola?]

No harm in letting in a couple thousand Sub-Saharan African's that are positive and might infect in turn thousands of Americans.

So about that thing I said about using inductive inference as a basis for a model of spread of disease...there are not a "couple thousand sub-Saharan Africans positive" with ebola or HIV trying to emigrate to the US, nor is either virus as...er...virulently contagious as you suggest. Again, giving a nod to proper statistical inference, sub-Saharan African immigrants are not fucking the native populace like mad, so you're severely overestimating the influence of immigration on HIV infection (we really did miss the boat, as L2R explained).

ebola

 

[LosBlancos]

this has never actually happened from me, and as far as i can tell nor has it been apparent on bluelight in my 14 years posting/moderating on this site.

What was that again?

i have only been asking questions about your "fuck darkies" position, which is easy to pick apart because it is built entirely on your own arbitrary biases and prejudices.

 

[LosBlancos]

6- you assume my position on islam even though i have never made any comment on the religion itself

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=009513...2R+Islam#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=L2R Islam&gsc.page=3

Here's about ten pages worth of thread's to the contrary, seems like you defend Islam every chance you get. Ignoring these violent passages. But the minute I mention Utiliarianism, you're quick to say it "sucks".

Have you ever thought your persecution of those adherents to Utilitarianism could cause them to feel disenfranchisement, depression and cause them to blow up a building or rape a young Aussie woman? You best say only kind words of them. Nothing good will come of your unjust persecution of the Utilitarian followers.