Explain Judaism

[Ninae]

But how is this relevant to anything apart from your personal beliefs?

Also, are you gay (no offence)?

 

[3jane]

now i was raised jewish, but i dont believe in God. judaism is an ethnic religion, meaning there is more to the religion than just spirituality and god. i have never gone back to temple since my Bar mitzvah, and i dont really plan on going back. i dont like organized religion, and i feel more spiritual practicing buddhism. yes i will identify myself as jewish, but i dont pray, i dont read the torah, i dont do anything involving religion.. the only holidays i celebrate are the major ones, rosh hashanah and yom kippur and hannukah because my family celebrates them. it is like a christian who only celebrates christmas and never goes to church.


there is a saying in buddhism, "if you can find the buddha on the road, kill buddha." which means holding on to a belief systems inhibits the formation of new beliefs and perspectives. there is no one right answer in life, there are too many grey areas to say one idea or belief is absolute.

I love this. And the wonderful thing about Judaism is that you will still be accepted. It's a religion/ culture that encourages skepticism and self-exploration, at least in my experience.

 

[laCster]

But how is this relevant to anything apart from your personal beliefs?

Also, are you gay (no offence)?

lol. why, do you want to be my boy friend or something? in that case, im straight....

i made the comment because you presumed to say that "jesus did that, jesus did this..." soo yah, he probably did, but which "jesus" are you talking about?

 

[Doldrugs]

"Blind faith in science" only means that someone thinks either science has already worked all things out or that science can disprove all and any religious claims. And there are people like that.

Those people don't understand science or logic. It's a fallacy to pretend these hypothetical people are relevant to this discussion. Do you want me to judge all theists by suicide bombers and serial killers?

 

[ForEverAfter]

They are not hypothetical people.
We are not judging the scientific world.

It's a fallacy to pretend these hypothetical people are relevant to this discussion.

No, it isn't. Seriously invest in a dictionary. Look up the word fallacy.
Overusing it in the wrong context makes you look foolish.

You haven't given any reason as to why the many people with blind faith in science are not relevant to the discussion, whereas people with blind faith in religion are (or, at least, you don't object to them being mentioned / implied). Funny thing is, now you're saying that they do exist but they're irrelevant (which, of course, is another "fallacy")?

You sound like a parrot, regurgitating phrases and sentence fragments that you don't comprehend.

 

[3jane]

Blind faith and science shouldn't even be used in the same sentence, unless you're explaining the difference...

Scientific knowledge is closely tied to empirical findings, and can remain subject to falsification if new experimental observation incompatible with it is found. That is, no theory can ever be considered final, since new problematic evidence might be discovered. If such evidence is found, a new theory may be proposed, or (more commonly) it is found that modifications to the previous theory are sufficient to explain the new evidence. The strength of a theory can be argued to be related to how long it has persisted without major alteration to its core principles.

 

[Birc0014]

lol. why, do you want to be my boy friend or something? in that case, im straight....

i made the comment because you presumed to say that "jesus did that, jesus did this..." soo yah, he probably did, but which "jesus" are you talking about?

Black Jesus

 

[Journyman16]

ok first of all, there was never anyone named "jesus" at the time of the crusades because there is no "Jay" sound in the hebrew alphabet. the name Jesus was probably Yahushua. Secondly, do you know how many people were crucified during the crusades? do you know how many people were named Yahushua at the time? put together those probabilities and you have hundreds of people that were named Yahushua that were crucified.

if i may continue on technicalities, hebrew was a dead language until isreal actually became a state in 1948. people did not speak hebrew many centuries ago, it was the language of worship, meaning the people during the time of "Jesus" and before then, did not speak hebrew in conversation. rather, they probably spoke arabic or some sort of language relating to that. thus, many words of the english bible and torah are not translated correctly. even the people of israel probably dont read the torah with its original intention correctly. i relate this predicament to how sanskrit in the bhagavad gita is almost always translated incorrectly to english and other languages. most words lose certain meanings and adopt new ones with time. a word said today could mean something completely different hundreds of years ago. ironic as it may seem, language is a fluid idea. while language itself literally defines life in terms of black and white, multiple variables go into defining definitions for words such as culture, religion, emotions, etc... thus, the meanings of the torah and the bhagavad gita are thus nothing more than scholarly "guesses"

now i was raised jewish, but i dont believe in God. judaism is an ethnic religion, meaning there is more to the religion than just spirituality and god. i have never gone back to temple since my Bar mitzvah, and i dont really plan on going back. i dont like organized religion, and i feel more spiritual practicing buddhism. yes i will identify myself as jewish, but i dont pray, i dont read the torah, i dont do anything involving religion.. the only holidays i celebrate are the major ones, rosh hashanah and yom kippur and hannukah because my family celebrates them. it is like a christian who only celebrates christmas and never goes to church.

now, saying that judaism is devil worship is actually kind of funny because it is so ignorant. i actually laughed when i read that....

there is a saying in buddhism, "if you can find the buddha on the road, kill buddha." which means holding on to a belief systems inhibits the formation of new beliefs and perspectives. there is no one right answer in life, there are too many grey areas to say one idea or belief is absolute.

Nice post and a breath of fresh air. Although I'd probably modify

thus, the meanings of the torah and the bhagavad gita are thus nothing more than scholarly "guesses"

by adding, 'as modified by cultural and temporal snobbery that sees anyone from previous times as inferior, superstitious and somehow lacking. :D

People also forget many of the original religious texts were ancient before they were ever written down. People used to memorise entire sagas, word for word, in a tradition passed from master to apprentice, long before writing was anything more than a place marker for social and religious needs. So, for example, the Rig Veda is seen as more recent than the Old Testament, yet culturally it is claimed to date from thousands of years before it was written.

Another interesting view of Jesus comes from Ralph Ellis - he has extensively researched the middle eastern history and claims Jesus was a son? grandson? of Cleopatra, as well as directly related into Parthia. With the blood of three royal lines he was a direct threat to any of the royal families and setting himself as potential King of the Jews would have caused a few sleepless nights.

I'd imagine any deviation from Judaism would also have got a few Rabbis in a bit of a state. :D Many power structures stood to topple should The Christ actually achieve his aims. I think maybe, just as came alter from the Church, the fastest way to get rid of anyone back then was to bring religion into it. Sacrilege, heresy and blasphemy have been capital crimes for a long time.

 

[Ninae]

lol. why, do you want to be my boy friend or something?

No. But the night before I had a dream about an annoying Jewish guy who turned out to be gay. So I thought I'd just ask.

 

[Ninae]

Those people don't understand science or logic. It's a fallacy to pretend these hypothetical people are relevant to this discussion. Do you want me to judge all theists by suicide bombers and serial killers?

Do you want me to judge all scientists on nuclear weapons since scientists helped develop them?

Get a grip. You don't seem willing to look at this rationally at all.

 

[ForEverAfter]

thus, the meanings of the torah and the bhagavad gita are thus nothing more than scholarly "guesses"

...and thus you are thus!

 

[Ninae]

Another interesting view of Jesus comes from Ralph Ellis - he has extensively researched the middle eastern history and claims Jesus was a son? grandson? of Cleopatra

Really?

If that's true I might have been related to Jesus (or if I was related to Cleopatra).

 

[Erikmen]

no. But the night before i had a dream about an annoying jewish guy who turned out to be gay. So i thought i'd just ask.

lol!

 

[rickolasnice]

ForEverAfter I'd like some clarification on deutronomy if you don't mind?

Specifically the murdering, raping, pillaging, orders to murder groups of people from women who are not virgins on their wedding night to killing followers of other religions..

 

[ForEverAfter]

I don't mind, although I suspect - given your track record - that you don't really want an explanation... and you're just being politely antagonistic.

...

Deuteronomy is full of a bunch of antiquated laws and ceremonial practices, most of which have not been upheld / performed (anywhere) for centuries.
These laws are not representative of Judaism. They are representative of Judaism during a different time in history, I suppose.

It is foolish to equate modern Judaism and early Judaism, just as it is foolish to equate the Crusades with modern Christianity.

Religions are distorted by the time and place that they occur. As time goes on, religion appears to change.
In order to see Judaism, therefore, you need to attempt to see beyond the context that it exists / existed in.

...

If an Asian man steals your lawnmower, you can't rightly conclude that Asian people - or men - are prone to theft.
If a bunch of Christians murder a shit-load of non-Christians, you can't conclude that Christianity encourages murder.
If a book (or two) in the Torah has twisted moral values by today's standards, that doesn't mean Judaism is twisted.

Judaism is not Deuteronomy.
It is a peaceful religion more than it is a violent religion.
But, like all religions and individual spiritual belief structures, it is imperfect.


The vast majority of the OT stands up really well, as a mythological text, considering the age of the books within.
Throughout my encounters with you on this forum, you've proven to be somewhat obsessed about the passages that haven't aged well.
There are certainly questionable passages in the Old Testament, but they are far and few between considering the vastness of the text.

I'm not sure why these passages concern you so much... ?
Do you really think there are a lot of Jewish / Christian people murdering and raping and pillaging because of Deuteronomy?
Or, as I initially suspected, are you just another - in a never-ending line of people - waiting to smear some more shit on religion?

 

[Ninae]

I think rickolasnice is more like a sceptic of all things spiritual and religious all acrross the board.

 

[rickolasnice]

You seemed to have misunderstood me..

And no I really do want an explanation.. I've actually calmed down loads since I've been away..

I honestly wasn't coming here to start shit.. To be honest I've mixed two threads (/posts) up in my head.. one from EADD Theology Mega Thread and this one.. but having read the rest of your post.. fuck it.. why not.

You're right.. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc etc are peaceful religions for the most part.. and seeing as you asked (I really didn't come here for this, i swear).. The religious texts are tools, powerful tools, that are being used to enforce or justify badness. Because of their nature the possibility of them being used wrongly is massive. Because of their ambiguity and contradictions going from extreme love to extreme hate, peace to war, they don't really have a one true message.

Anti abortion protests, (a lot of the) anti vaxxers, young earth creationists and God hates fags all are in some (HUGE) part to tied into religion.

ISIS is an example of how religion.. a book.. can be used for extreme baddness. Now I know this had a lot more to do with political issues.. HAD.. but religion has become a more prevalent part in what they are and what they want.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone

Passages like this led to thousands of Christians and Yazidis being displaced, murdered and sold off into slavery.

Western teens are flocking to them because of that book. People are willing to and have been blowing themselves up for that book. Women and gays are being oppressed for that book. People are killing for that book.

I know, i know, these people are not representative of the majority of the religious and that the majority disagree or even condemn that kind of behaviour.. but it's not enough. This wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for those god damn books..

Let's use a single person for an analogy.. 90% of the time he's selfless, he helps and cares for others.. but 10% of the time he terrorises pregnant women, beats up gay people and then shoots some civilians.

Or how about a pill.. for 90% of the population it improves their lives, they're happier etc but for the other %10 it turns them into psychopathic murderers..

etc etc

The good is far outweighed by the bad.. The good that comes from religion is questionable at times and replaceable at others.. There is not place in the 21st century for ideologies thought up during wars in the middle east two thousand years ago.

Ya know.. Not long ago i was involved in another debate which led me to research gender inequality in religious countries (countries where by society, government and culture act hand in hand with religion).. Guess what pattern started emerging..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index#Bottom_ten_countries

And no that wasn't where my research stopped.. I didn't save anything and can't be bothered to do it again.. I did find a few articles about how religion introduced sexism and homophobia to a lot of countries.. they were fine before.

I truly believe that the world would be a better place if religion wasn't in it.

As for the bad passages being far and few between thats crap.. it's full of it.. I could list probably hundreds of passages but i really can't be bothered.

Most of the evil shit in deutronomy was "an order from God"

And in regards to your previous post.. Don't you think it's about time we took deutronomy out of a book that so many people read literally, written by Gods chosen ghost writers? It's great that you see the bible as a book of mythological stories but you have to accept that not many people do.

I think rickolasnice is more like a sceptic of all things spiritual and religious all acrross the board.

I am indeed.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Not interested in that sort of discussion.
You've already made up your mind.

Maybe someone else will take the bait.

 

[Ninae]

I am indeed.

You're also not very imaginative. If I recall correctly you can barely stretch your mind around any spiritual concept. You manage to make Journeyman sound like one of the 12 diciples.

By the way, do you care about how many people are hurt or how many wars are fought for drugs? Does it get in the way of the enjoyment you can have from them? If you have so much social conscience, why don't you campaign for the whole drug-industry to be demolished, which would make this world a better place?

The truth is that people don't really care much about anything outside of themselves. If they have a problem with religion it's more about how it effects themselves and their own emotional life. Any arguments they can think of are mostly used as a way to justify that.

 

[Doldrugs]

do you want me to judge all scientists on nuclear weapons since scientists helped develop them?

whoosh