The ISIS Megathread

[Escher's Waterfall]

Don’t have enough money for food? There is a food stamps or SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)

Don’t have money for shelter? There is Section 8 housing (Housing Choice Voucher Program), public housing, and privately-owned subsidized housing.

Don’t have money for medication? There is Medicaid, and a sliding-scale of insurance premiums based on your income as part of the Affordable Care act.

Food stamps is pretty meh. If you like beans and rice, and have time to cook, you can probably squeak by. On average, it's $1.50 you get to spend on each meal.

And do you know how long the waiting list is for Sector 8 housing? Where I'm at, it made the news that the *waiting list* opened up. Before this year, the last time you could even try to get on a waiting list for Sector 8 housing was in 2007.

Damn, those poor people are flying high!

Now, we do have a kick-ass state healthcare program for poor people. Y'know how with private insurance, the doctor wants to do something, and the insurance company bitches about how it's not covered? State health insurance is the exact opposite - if the doctor wants to run tests, or give a prescription, or even do a surgery, the state healthcare is basically like "well, if the doctor thinks it is best, we'll cover it". So as long as you have absolutely no income, you'll get great healthcare. At least in my commie state.

 

[LosBlancos]

Food stamps is pretty meh. If you like beans and rice, and have time to cook, you can probably squeak by. On average, it's $1.50 you get to spend on each meal.

The average is about $130 per month for every food stamp recipient. Many people on food stamps also work, so this is not the only money they have to spend on food. People with no job/income whatsoever likely get a higher monthly stipend. Food stamps also are tax-free, so it goes further than $130 in cash. Your also not taking into account other government programs which give people cash monthly to get them buy, which people can obviously spend on food.

All things considered you can't exactly eat lobster, caviar, and steak every night with some foie gras for lunch but it gives you enough money for regular nutritious meals.

And do you know how long the waiting list is for Sector 8 housing? Where I'm at, it made the news that the *waiting list* opened up. Before this year, the last time you could even try to get on a waiting list for Sector 8 housing was in 2007.

Damn, those poor people are flying high!

How horrible, a waiting period before getting entirely free housing. The horror. Again one of the things about the United States is there are always numerous programs that cover the same need, so Section 8 housing is not the only path toward's either a) free housing or b) assistance paying rent. I can safely say from my experience that as Section 8 housing is instituted into a city, housing values and rents nearby typically go down and crime goes up. So although for landlords having a guaranteed monthly payment from the government is enticing many would rather not rent to Section 8 tenants.

So as long as you have absolutely no income, you'll get great healthcare. At least in my commie state.

Meanwhile the rest of us hardworking people pay more for procedures and prescriptions to cover those who don't pay at all, practically a Communist utopia here.

 

[LosBlancos]

Denver Teen Jailed for 4 Years for Trying to Join ISIS

A 19-year-old suburban Denver woman who tried to go to Syria to help Islamic State militants has been sentenced to four years in prison.
Shannon Conley, who received military training when she went to a camp run by the US Army Explorers, learned her punishment in Denver federal court on Friday as her parents watched.
Wearing a black and tan headscarf with her jail uniform, she tearfully told the judge that she has disavowed jihad and that the people who influenced her misconstrued the Quran.
Conley pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization in September under a deal that requires her to divulge information she may have about other Americans with similar intentions.


FBI agents say Conley wanted to marry a suitor she met online who told her he was fighting with the extremists. She repeatedly told them she wanted to fight alongside him or use her skills as a nurse's aide to help.
Judge Raymond Moore said the sentence was meant to deter others with similar intentions. Earlier in the hearing he expressed doubt that Conley had disavowed jihad, pointing to a letter she wrote to a friend from jail in which she ridiculed other inmates for denouncing terrorism.
He also said Conley has a history of defiance that has played out in the case and that she needs mental help.


'Defiance has been a part of her fabric for a long time. She has been defiant before this,' the judge said.
'This is not the exceptional act. This is Shannon being defiant yet again.'
Conley could have faced up to five years in federal prison after pleading guilty to trying to help Islamic State militants, but her sentence depended at least in part on how helpful she was to authorities still investigating her case and others like it.
Authorities became aware of Conley's growing interest in extremism in November 2013 after she started talking about terrorism with employees of a suburban Denver church. They had seen her wandering around and taking notes on the layout of the campus, according to court documents.
FBI agents met repeatedly with Conley starting in late 2013 hoping to dissuade her from leaving, suggesting she pursue humanitarian work instead. But she told them she was intent on waging jihad in the Middle East, even though she knew it was illegal, according to court documents. She believed it was her only answer to correcting what she saw as wrongs perpetrated against the Muslim world.

Beliefs: Conley (pictured on the right, with a friend) tried out several different religions in college before selecting Islam

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-claiming-disavowed-jihad.html#ixzz3Pn2x8oX2
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

The average is about $130 per month for every food stamp recipient. Many people on food stamps also work, so this is not the only money they have to spend on food. People with no job/income whatsoever likely get a higher monthly stipend. Food stamps also are tax-free, so it goes further than $130 in cash. Your also not taking into account other government programs which give people cash monthly to get them buy, which people can obviously spend on food.

Dude, food ain't taxed here. So it goes the same. And at the end of the month, you end up going hungry a lot.

But hey, I really getting a kick out of someone who probably doesn't even remember when food stamps actually were in a booklet telling me about the program.

All things considered you can't exactly eat lobster, caviar, and steak every night with some foie gras for lunch but it gives you enough money for regular nutritious meals.

Great meals. Just don't break that $1.50/meal budget.

How horrible, a waiting period before getting entirely free housing. The horror.

So you've never been homeless, I take it. Hey, no shame in that, neither have I. But the folks I know who have been homeless do not seem to think it's a treat. And I haven't known anyone who has done it for eight years.

Again one of the things about the United States is there are always numerous programs that cover the same need, so Section 8 housing is not the only path toward's either a) free housing or b) assistance paying rent. I can safely say from my experience that as Section 8 housing is instituted into a city, housing values and rents nearby typically go down and crime goes up. So although for landlords having a guaranteed monthly payment from the government is enticing many would rather not rent to Section 8 tenants.

Congrats. You've just admitted to discrimination against the poor. Slowly, we're making progress opening your eyes.

Meanwhile the rest of us hardworking people pay more for procedures and prescriptions to cover those who don't pay at all, practically a Communist utopia here.

Don't spew that bullshit. The US pays more per capita for its healthcare because our healthcare system is a for-profit system in an area which lends itself towards inelastic demand and confusopolic practices. Hence we piss away a few thousand more per person than any other nation on earth.

 

[paranoid android]

Anyone who quotes Thatcher has to be a twat. Too bad the bitch never took a bath or that Brighton bomb might have blown her to bits and saved the UK and Ireland some misery.

 

[LosBlancos]

Dude, food ain't taxed here. So it goes the same. And at the end of the month, you end up going hungry a lot.

But hey, I really getting a kick out of someone who probably doesn't even remember when food stamps actually were in a booklet telling me about the program.

You just glossed over the fact that most people on SNAP are working or receiving an income so it wouldn't be $1.50 per meal but $1.50 EXTRA every meal. People that don't have a job would typically be receiving SNAP in conjunction with other government programs.

Congrats. You've just admitted to discrimination against the poor. Slowly, we're making progress opening your eyes.

Landlords aren't required to participate in Section 8. This is a free-market not a Communist country.

From Wikipedia:

"As a result, some landlords will not accept a Section 8 tenant. This can be attributed to such factors as:

• not wanting the government involved in their business, such as having a full inspection of their premises by government workers for HUD's Housing Quality Standards (HQS) and the possible remediations required^[15]
• fear that a Section 8 tenant or their children will not properly maintain the premises^{[citation needed]}
• a desire to charge a rent for the unit above FMR^{[citation needed]}
• unwillingness to initiate judicial action for eviction of a tenant (HUD requires that Section 8 tenants can only be evicted by judicial action, even where state law allows other procedures)^{[citation needed]"}

Don't spew that bullshit. The US pays more per capita for its healthcare because our healthcare system is a for-profit system in an area which lends itself towards inelastic demand and confusopolic practices. Hence we piss away a few thousand more per person than any other nation on earth.

So where does the money come from for millions of dollars in cancer treatments for a poor person if not from higher rates for others?

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

You just glossed over the fact that most people on SNAP are working or receiving an income so it wouldn't be $1.50 per meal but $1.50 EXTRA every meal. People that don't have a job would typically be receiving SNAP in conjunction with other government programs.

Next time you are unemployed, try applying for food stamps. Have fun. I think you'll discover just how far it'll go if you don't have money for food.

Landlords aren't required to participate in Section 8. This is a free-market not a Communist country.

By your reasoning, we can remove all discrimination simply by making it legal.

So where does the money come from for millions of dollars in cancer treatments for a poor person if not from higher rates for others?

Efficiency. Right now, for every man, woman and child in the US, we spend about $8,500 per year in healthcare. We have the most expensive healthcare in the world.

Our neighbors to the north actually spend about $4,500 per year.

We're spending almost one out of every five dollars on healthcare in the US. In most other developed countries, that number is closer to 1 in 10.

And our outcome isn't as good:

 

[LosBlancos]

Next time you are unemployed, try applying for food stamps. Have fun. I think you'll discover just how far it'll go if you don't have money for food.

But there's other programs like TANF, WIC, and unemployment benefits that provide money in addition to food stamps.

By your reasoning, we can remove all discrimination simply by making it legal.

The free-market is the most effective method of combating discrimination. Most landlords wish to earn money from the property they have invested in with no regard of their nationality or the colour of their skin. Money is money. As was already mentioned, Section 8 housing has some extra work on the end of the landlord and can be undesirable, if I spent $100,000 buying an condominium to rent out as an American with my god-given free-will I should be able to choose whether I allow Section 8 renters and that is how it is.

Efficiency. Right now, for every man, woman and child in the US, we spend about $8,500 per year in healthcare. We have the most expensive healthcare in the world.

Our neighbors to the north actually spend about $4,500 per year.

We're spending almost one out of every five dollars on healthcare in the US. In most other developed countries, that number is closer to 1 in 10.

And our outcome isn't as good:

Alot of those costs are due to our sue-happy culture. I read a book by Ben Carson a neursurgeon who said many surgeons/doctors avoid Medicair patients if they can because if there are complications they will be quicker than the rest of the public to sue to try and get a quick payday. There are so many frivolous lawsuits against doctors here, and as result malpractice insurance is astronomical. Also, the American Medical Association is an enormous lobby that passes through legislation to limit the number of doctors and keep their costs high. A doctor that is simply setting broken bones or doing some rather rudimentary procedures shouldn't need near as many certifications and tests as one performing brain surgery or heart surgery. Also look at the inefficiencies of our medical schools that turn away Asian applicants with considerably higher MCAT scores and GPAs all in the name of diversity.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

But there's other programs like TANF, WIC, and unemployment benefits that provide money in addition to food stamps.

Why don't you try it for a while before you start making assumptions.

The free-market is the most effective method of combating discrimination.

Citation needed.

Alot of those costs are due to our sue-happy culture. I read a book by Ben Carson a neursurgeon who said many surgeons/doctors avoid Medicair patients if they can because if there are complications they will be quicker than the rest of the public to sue to try and get a quick payday. There are so many frivolous lawsuits against doctors here, and as result malpractice insurance is astronomical.

That's a great excuse, but when we examine states with tort reform versus states without, we don't see a big difference. You can probably hang about 1% of the cost of healthcare on the legal system.

 

[Bardeaux]

But there's other programs like TANF, WIC, and unemployment benefits that provide money in addition to food stamps.

How many people receive all of the above? What percentage of food stamp recipients also receive TANF payments? How many receiving food stamps are ineligible for unemployment insurance because they're employed?

I think we've been over this before, it sounds strangely familiar.

 

[LosBlancos]

Citation needed.

Common sense...most employers will hire whatever employee has the best credentials and will earn their organization money, regardless of their race.

Loan officers at banks, why would they turn down a minority applicant if they can earn money for financing their home or business?

In the case of renters, if you are in a high-demand area you pick whomever is paying the most or who has a steady stream of income irregardless of their race. Some landlords don't except Section 8, just like some gas stations might not accept food stamps, hardly discrimination.

If a business performs in a discriminatory nature, concerned citizens will generally not shop there and they will see declining profits which encourages a just and equitable system of hiring and servicing customers.

 

[LosBlancos]

How many people receive all of the above? What percentage of food stamp recipients also receive TANF payments? How many receiving food stamps are ineligible for unemployment insurance because they're employed?

If their employed then don't say they only have $1.50 to spend per meal. Few people get all of those programs but many get more than one.

 

[Bardeaux]

If their employed then don't say they only have $1.50 to spend per meal. Few people get all of those programs but many get more than one.

To be eligible for food stamps (in my state atleast) you need to earn under $1k per month. Factor in rent, utilities, transportation to and from work, etc and there isn't much to go grocery shopping with. And that's if you don't have children, who require non-WIC items as well.

Very few people receive TANF period, let alone TANF plus other benefits.

 

[LosBlancos]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/news/economy/welfare-reform/

In the above article, there is 69 different federal assistance programs with a combined annual budget of about $700 billion in fiscal year of 2011.

69 different ones. Do you see how inefficient that is? It's likely each program has it's own bureaucratic structure, and lavishly paid middle-management and administrators. Many private charities are far more efficient in terms of money received to actually helping people.

 

[Bardeaux]

^From your article:

Mind you, the economy was prospering in 1996. 2011 was still in the shadow of the recession.

It also doesn't specify what the 69 programs are or who they benefit or what they do.

 

[LosBlancos]

It also doesn't specify what the 69 programs are or who they benefit or what they do.

Government-assistance programs of which TANF, SNAP, and WIC are all a part of.

Read the article: "There are 69 federal programs that provide help in areas ranging from housing to social services to education to poor Americans, according to the Heritage Foundation. The federal government will spend about $695 billion on this assistance in fiscal 2011."

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Common sense...most employers will hire whatever employee has the best credentials and will earn their organization money, regardless of their race.

Except the experimental evidence suggests otherwise.

Loan officers at banks, why would they turn down a minority applicant if they can earn money for financing their home or business?

Redlining suggests otherwise.

In the case of renters, if you are in a high-demand area you pick whomever is paying the most or who has a steady stream of income irregardless of their race. Some landlords don't except Section 8, just like some gas stations might not accept food stamps, hardly discrimination.

When's the last time the government stopped paying their section 8 vouchers?

If a business performs in a discriminatory nature, concerned citizens will generally not shop there and they will see declining profits which encourages a just and equitable system of hiring and servicing customers.

Unless there's an incentive to cater to a community's bias by discrimination. One good example would be segregation academies in the South - by serving minorities, they'd lose the richer white customers.

 

[LosBlancos]

Except the experimental evidence suggests otherwise.

Those studies you posted claimed to show people with similar credentials. Not one with higher education/more prestigious university, or more experience. The evidence shows minorities are actually admitted to university and medical school with lower GPA/MCAT/credentials simply off the basis of their skin colour.

Redlining suggests otherwise.

Like I said businesses are there to make money, perhaps certain people are denied bank loans simply because their analytics show that they are likely to default on the loan. By certain people I mean individuals, not of a specific ethnicity. Anything more specific than redlining?

When's the last time the government stopped paying their section 8 vouchers?

I don't think you read the article. But Section 8 caps the payment to a fair market assessment using some algorithm to determine a fair rent, it's possible some landlord's wouldn't be getting what their property could receive on the free-market by participating in the program. Not to mention having to have occasional government inspections. Time is money and having to deal with the government even more than general regulations on renting can make it not worth the hassle to many landlords.

Unless there's an incentive to cater to a community's bias by discrimination. One good example would be segregation academies in the South - by serving minorities, they'd lose the richer white customers.

Don't worry, any business remotely involved in any "discrimination" will have their name dragged through the mud by Al Sharpton until they make a "contribution" to him or hire him on as a "diversity consultant" to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Government-assistance programs of which TANF, SNAP, and WIC are all a part of.

Read the article: "There are 69 federal programs that provide help in areas ranging from housing to social services to education to poor Americans, according to the Heritage Foundation. The federal government will spend about $695 billion on this assistance in fiscal 2011."

Why not actually link to the list of all the programs?

Social security spending looks remarkably small in that chart. Did they drop a zero?

 

[LosBlancos]

Why not actually link to the list of all the programs?

You mentioned the Section 8 waiting period being exceptionally long before. This neglected to mention the numerous other housing programmes as mentioned in this chart here. 11 different housing programmes! Talk about efficiency!

Quite the list of social-services programs, thank you!