My.. Situation (poppy pods)...immodium or suboxone?

[thePodFreak]

This is long... Skip the background if you wish. TLDR at the bottom. I am not sure where this best belongs - mods feel free to move if you wish.

First, background.

to start, I'd like to think I am In a somewhat strange case... But then again maybe not. I come from a catholic (well until I was confirmed) background, raised by loving parents in a typical Midwest, middle income family. In addition, aside from some binge drinking in my early 20s (college), and a single joint of pot while drunk at a party, I was always and adamantly drug free. I had always vowed to never touch the stuff. However, after a dental surgery my wife (then girlfriend) had, she was prescribed Percocet. Sharing my sentiment, I don't think she took one of them the whole time - definitely not enough for that true euphoria you get. Anyway, fast forward a few months, and me not wanting to drink one night we went bowling I asked her if I could try a few Percocet and see if it's lighten my mood and let me have a little fun while we were there, since I was DD... Figured it'd wear off after my 3 or so hours at the alley. Felt ok, nothing crazy tho. However, the curiosity was now there. Over the next month I would try it once in a while and my productivity went through the ROOF. between those stints and an every now and then dip in to the vikes and perks she had, the feeling was an absolute wonder - something I had never felt before. Of course my wife had no clue.

That said, the scripts ran out, and luckily with my sporadic use, no withdrawals came from it. However looking back on it, I started searching for "legal" opie highs. And of course, I found poppy pods. Ordered a small bunch for the fuck of it, and not only was it just as awesome, it lasted longer. Over the next year I found myself using on weekends, knowing though EXTENSIVE research that the frequency I was using would prevent withdrawals. Plus I had an active social life which kept it off my mind most of the time.

I kept this up for a year. We got married (which with my nervousness I was, of course, high at my wedding which I hate myself for) went to Jamaica for 2 weeks and it was the best time of my life, completely opie free (which shows my tolerance was very low as I had no withdrawals at all, had a little Jamaican green of course, but just once haha)

This is where things went from slippery slope to hell. My wife was accepted to med school in az. I had to leave all my friends and go live with her in az for at least 4 years. I also was able to keep my job in software, but. Now worked from home. With all this time on my hands, boredom became regular. I would exercise, but then opened a PO box and ordered a bit there. With nothing to do, my habit increased. I had a very light withdrawal phase which I was able to keep semi- at bay with vigorous exercise when the restlessness became too much. However the more I found pods made me more productive at work, the more I justified using them. Well, with my wife having to be gone most of every day and completely sucked in to her studies, I would make tea and program, and that's it. As we all know, that is NOT it. Weekends became a couple days a week, and one extremely busy week of work became 5 days in a row. Now I have to withdrawal while trying to work programming. Of course, during this time my marriage was on a train ride to hell, I have to feel at least partially due to my use, despite how well it was hidden.

Well, we all know where this goes. It's been about 4 years since moving to az, and I am now a daily user. Note that NOONE knows of my addiction, I've kept It very secret. Due to pod variations I have no clue what my tolerance is, but I grind up 5 to 8 pods larger than a golf ball to live and get a minor buzz if I throw some nicotine from an ecig in (note, aside from casual cigars I NEVER smoked... Now I'm daily on these cigs).

I've attempted to quit many times. My first attempt from a heavier habit with pods, documented here in my past posts, sucked but I made it about a month before the idea of chipping hit my mind. I quit again, quickly with some lope, and it was virtually painless.... What a terrible thing. It got me chipping AGAIN thinking how easy that w/d was and finally fully addicted again. Since then I've been a daily user for 2 years with 5 to 8 pods depending on size and strength.

Stress at work keeps me going on them, my productivity is in rough shape after 5 promotions, and my wife and I have had immense troubles from my mood swings and her completely changing as a person...new friends, new life I suppose. We are now finally at the point of divorce and it crushes me - I know the pods aren't THE reason for this as she was unfaithful and stubborn, but I have to believe life would be different without them, maybe I'd still have my family... Despite my promotions the rising costs of pods have me way behind on just about everything, and I'm barely holding on to everything I worked so hard for. I've gained almost 100 pounds so sex was basically nonexistent.

It just sucks away everything from Every part of your life. I hate waking up knowing without my dose I'm going to start sweating, being anxious and all in all useless - with my demanding job it's impossible.

Move to Monday. Pods seized by customs. Used my last dose available, with no backup Monday morning for work. I call in sick Tuesday, take a lot of time prepping a plan to survive until Wednesday when my next batch comes in. I pop a few klonopin I got prescribed that day and my mood is happy. Tuesday rolls around and I'm surprisingly normal feeling... I chalk it up to half life and decide I will sleep though the day. I have some seroquel I borrowed and my kpins, pop some at 5 and aside from some maddening rls, I pass out.

I wake up this morning confused... Very mild withdrawal if any, and just lethargic feeling. Pods come today and when they arrive, and knowing this week I HAVE to get my work done, I sadly use.. Stupid, I think. I feel good, but I wonder what tomorrow morning will feel like.. Could be scary and awful, or not, who knows. I'm over 36 hours in to a kick and feel like I'm 72 or more as I have felt next to no withdrawals... Although from hour about 24 to 36 I'm knocked out from seroquel. However I have some optimism that if I plan my withdrawal end of the month (time off, alone) I might be able to do

In the end, this has drained my finances, ruined my credit score, and I've finally lost something more significant, drug related or not - my wife. It is a hell of a fun ride at the beginning, but in the end, it is your slave master and it will steal everything from you.

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Ok, well now that's out of the way, my current situation. I'm laying on a couch at my parents house, home for the holidays. I don't work again until the 5th, and I fly back home on the 31st. I am out of poppy pods. I took my last dose this morning around 10, and aside from slight anxiety I feel ok. I feel my dosages right now are lower than they have been in a while, and I tapered the last 3 days (didn't have a choice).

Anyway, with my flight Wednesday morning and tomorrow morning being about 24 hours since my last dose, I'm wondering what my best bet is... Loading up with loperamide and trying to get through the flight on that (loperamide has helped me tremendously in the past.... But it is VERY hit or miss), OR suffer complete ct for the next day or 2 and hope to the gods that my suboxone works. I have about 20 8mg strips, but I only ever want to use them for getting clean... I was too scared of precipitated withdrawal last time and never took them, and just had a surprisingly short lived withdrawal. However this time I know I won't make it through a flight in full fledged wd... So I'm just not sure...


Tl;dr: flight in 3 days, no drugs. Use loperamide or hope that between now and the flight is enough time for the sub to work to get me home semi comfortable?

 

[thePodFreak]

Maybe this makes sense to be in OD?

 

[herbavore]

I think it is fine, here because you sound like you could use a lot of support as well as info about what to use to help out in the short-term.

(Speaking of support, it seems that maybe you and this member could offer each other some.)

My question to you is whether you feel ready to attempt to quit? It has always seemed to me that the major flaw in the "hitting rock bottom" theory is that the despair and shame of hitting are often as much a motivation to keep using as they are a potential deterrent. Feeling ready is a combination of courage and humility, fearlessness and fear, but most of all it has to be a faith in yourself that you are worth it. That is often hard to come by when you are depressed by your circumstances. I hope that you can summon up compassion for yourself and make a plan that includes outside support. Letting the addiction go on is just kicking the can down the road.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

I'm not really sure what you mean by 'hope between now and then is enough time for sub to work' or 'suffer complete ct for the next day or 2 and hope to the gods that my suboxone works'. I think maybe you are getting a bit confused about the protocol for using buprenorphine. All you have to do is wait until you are very definitely feeling the withdrawal fairly strongly (this can be as little as a few hours depending on the opiate used!) and then take some and it will work! It only wont work if it's fake!


You will almost certainly enter in to withdrawal before your flight (if you don't then you probably wont ever) so just take some sub when you start to feel shit. You shouldn't need that much I wouldn't have thought to match your habit. Standard procedure would be to wait until you are feeling very definitely in wd then take 2mg every 20 minutes until you are feeling ok, it might only take the first dose though that might be enough.

If you are not feeling wd by the time the flight comes around but are worried just take it with you. It's hard to advise on a taper as we don't know how much you will need to cover the wd, but if you are ready to stop using then I think it's fair to say you probably have enough there to do an almost completely painless detox. Your habit sounds relatively small and I wouldn't be suprised if the first 2mg you take is enough, it's strong stuff. If it is you could just do a fast taper and go 2, 1, 0.5, 0.25, 0 or something like that and you will probably feel very little pain.

Certainly I woulldn't be worrying too much if I was in your position, having all that sub that provides you with plenty of different options as to what you can do.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Hey man, your story is so similar to mine. I was a pod tea addict for 6 years, hid it from everyone, etc. I've been on suboxone for three years now, and it's the best choice I could have made. Life is waaaay better, and I'm doing a slow taper which isn't that bad.

Dude, you'll be fine if you have that much suboxone. Just wait until you feel w/d, take 4mg, once you feel better take more. I remember when I was in the midst of my addiction, I was on vacation and ran out, and I had a sub. I don't think I waited long enough, it had a weird feeling to it. Maybe bupe takes awhile to get used to. Now I feel great and don't miss pods at all.

Good luck!!

 

[ArtVandalay]

You know, I totally remember that anxiety and panic surrounding pods. It's a terrible feeling to be a slave to it. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Ugh, I really think you should ask for help and get on a suboxone plan. You'll get stability in your life, fix your financial problems, life will be better.

 

[cook]

Hey dude, I remember your last struggle. I though to myself that you have a good chance to make it as you were able to toss the pods away. Sorry to hear things didnt work out long term.

The idea of chipping is what has ruined all my attemps so far as well. Its just not gonna work and next time you get clean you just somehow have to pound that in your head to never look back. I havent made it yet either so welcome to the club.

I dunno about your current problem but I just "detoxed" with buprenorphine and it was much easier to maintain and feel normal but the problem for me was my tolerance has been quite lowish always so i actually got really high on subs at times. And the withdrawal that follows is still the same. I suspect your tolly might be low too if youre only been using few pods a day and bupe is a medication for IV H addicts basically and it is really strong. 20x8mg is massive amount for your habit, you can maintain a very long time with that if you wish.

If your situation requires maintaining then it is it, but when you have a possibility to take some time off try to get clean as fast as possible. Start with like 0.5-1mg if youre gonna dose it, 4mg someone mentioned here is way too much for this kind of habit i suspect. Your still not too far down the road in terms of recovery time. I take that is your ultimate goal anyway. This struggle is always harder than it seems though.

 

[thePodFreak]

Thanks for the input guys. My wording was weird, but basically I was worried about triggering precipitated withdrawals.. However I bit the bullet and dosed with 2mg about 34 hours after my last dose and it seems to be working very well - no w/d symptoms atm, took about 2 hours to fully go away. I started with as little as possible, so about .25mg. Once I was sure I wouldn't hit pws, I dosed the rest of the way over 3 hours.

I feel like this is a good a time as any to try and taper off for good, however due to how busy the new year is bound to be I'm not really feeling all to confident I'll stay off it... But that said I'm going to try a quick taper and see how I do - subs for me are an emergency use or taper only type of deal, the horror stories I've read about such prolonged withdrawals are enough to keep me from using it very long.

Anyway, thanks for the support - and I remember you too cook, maybe we didn't kick it this time, but god damn it we'll get there. :D

 

[ArtVandalay]

Hey dude, I remember your last struggle. I though to myself that you have a good chance to make it as you were able to toss the pods away. Sorry to hear things didnt work out long term.

The idea of chipping is what has ruined all my attemps so far as well. Its just not gonna work and next time you get clean you just somehow have to pound that in your head to never look back. I havent made it yet either so welcome to the club.

I dunno about your current problem but I just "detoxed" with buprenorphine and it was much easier to maintain and feel normal but the problem for me was my tolerance has been quite lowish always so i actually got really high on subs at times. And the withdrawal that follows is still the same. I suspect your tolly might be low too if youre only been using few pods a day and bupe is a medication for IV H addicts basically and it is really strong. 20x8mg is massive amount for your habit, you can maintain a very long time with that if you wish.

If your situation requires maintaining then it is it, but when you have a possibility to take some time off try to get clean as fast as possible. Start with like 0.5-1mg if youre gonna dose it, 4mg someone mentioned here is way too much for this kind of habit i suspect. Your still not too far down the road in terms of recovery time. I take that is your ultimate goal anyway. This struggle is always harder than it seems though.

It's true that bupe is strong and used for heroin addicts. But don't underestimate pods. The high lasts a long time, so bupe is a great substitute in that the half life is so long. The pod tea I used was very strong, and I actually prefered it to other opiates, including H (although never IV). But pod freak, it's understandable you don't want to get on bupe. For me it helped get my life straight. But it is a long taper, and is going to be a bitch to jump off of.

 

[cook]

I feel like this is a good a time as any to try and taper off for good, however due to how busy the new year is bound to be I'm not really feeling all to confident I'll stay off it... But that said I'm going to try a quick taper and see how I do - subs for me are an emergency use or taper only type of deal, the horror stories I've read about such prolonged withdrawals are enough to keep me from using it very long.

Buprenorphine is perfect for buying some time and getting distance from your DOC, just do not use more than what holds you 90% and youll be fine, for few months its not going to make things worse. But the withdrawal is still there even if you taper, and you must be mentally prepared for that.

Now lope for me is truly the emergency thing which I rarely had to use, but it works as well. It just makes your intestines scream for mercy at the doses you relieve your physical WDs significantly.

The acute situation is this but you know that the biggest challenge is to stay away long term as you have found. It keeps coming back and thats just the nature of it. We all have our own psychological issues why we let it back, its not just for fun even it rarely is fun any more. Its just a big fuckin waste of life and potential and possibly money in the end and that is all it is. Now you have your divorce, and I dont know if youre fooling yourself or not but in my point of view there is a high change that this addiction of yours has something to do with it. Because it does take your soul without you even knowing it, and everyone around you will be affected. Not to mention sex life etc. which is usually non existant when person does opiates. You have to see the big picture.

 

[thePodFreak]

Buprenorphine is perfect for buying some time and getting distance from your DOC, just do not use more than what holds you 90% and youll be fine, for few months its not going to make things worse. But the withdrawal is still there even if you taper, and you must be mentally prepared for that.

Now lope for me is truly the emergency thing which I rarely had to use, but it works as well. It just makes your intestines scream for mercy at the doses you relieve your physical WDs significantly.

The acute situation is this but you know that the biggest challenge is to stay away long term as you have found. It keeps coming back and thats just the nature of it. We all have our own psychological issues why we let it back, its not just for fun even it rarely is fun any more. Its just a big fuckin waste of life and potential and possibly money in the end and that is all it is. Now you have your divorce, and I dont know if youre fooling yourself or not but in my point of view there is a high change that this addiction of yours has something to do with it. Because it does take your soul without you even knowing it, and everyone around you will be affected. Not to mention sex life etc. which is usually non existant when person does opiates. You have to see the big picture.

Absolutely - I'm definitely aware that the addiction has played a role - it just wasn't "direct" (for example her finding out about it and divorcing me because of it) - but it obviously has affected who I am and absolutely played a part. That said, I honestly think my marriage being in kind of a ditch was part of why I jumped back on... My wife really changed quite a bit as well, for different reasons, and I was not happy anymore... So I'm really hoping that maybe this new year, with a new start on life, I can get through this once and for all.