If the Bible has been edited, then why leave in the bad bits about God?

[methamaniac]

That's pretty much begging the question. Peoples willingness to die for their beliefs does not make what they believe in true. Its a tautological statement.

Never said it did.
Im saying why die for something you know
you made up.

 

[rickolasnice]

No historians of the time denied he existed? No historians of the time KNEW he existed.. None of them wrote about Jesus..

Josephus Flavius documented the War of the Jews around the same time.. Not only does he not mention Jesus Christ, if you read his work, there are so many parallels to the gospels of Luke it's obvious Luke ripped off his work and altered it OR Josephus wrote the gospels of Luke..

Also - John doesn't talk about Jesus like he was a human man, much less so one that walked the earth with him..

For example:

Romans 16:
25 Now to the one who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but is now disclosed, and through the prophetic writings is made known to all the Gentiles, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith— 27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory for ever! Amen.

He is talking about something that is yet to come, not something that just happened..

And..
Romans 10
14 But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? 15 And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!’ 16 But not all have obeyed the good news; for Isaiah says, ‘Lord, who has believed our message?’ 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word about Christ.

And

Ephesians 3:
1 This is the reason that I Paul am a prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— 2 for surely you have already heard of the commission of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 and how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I wrote above in a few words, 4 a reading of which will enable you to perceive my understanding of the mystery of Christ. 5 In former generations this mystery was not made known to humankind, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit: 6 that is, the Gentiles have become fellow-heirs, members of the same body, and sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

And

Colossians 1:
24 I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am completing what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church. 25 I became its servant according to God’s commission that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery that has been hidden throughout the ages and generations but has now been revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 It is he whom we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone in all wisdom, so that we may present everyone mature in Christ.

And there's loads more..

When he talks about Jesus being crucified, that is in a metaphorical sense..

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." ..
"Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?"
"Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."
" May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."

etc etc etc

Here's a list of historians from around the time that don't mention Jesus

 

[methamaniac]

It is not necessarily anything remarkable that there is a heralding of a messiah in the OT - and the Jesus story might easily have been carefully crafted to match the details of the prognostications of earlier times. Constantine WANTED the Christ to be more than a man - it fit well with the desire to bring his empire under control and brought the pwoer og God behind the throne.

Again HUGE freaking conspiracy my good friend.
But it's the only real choice you got to explain it.
Well I guess guess one could chalk it up to coincidence if you dont have a hard time swallowing.

 

[rickolasnice]

I mean from Genesis to Revelation the phrophecy, forshadowing, symbolism, numerology, and allegory sure do have an uncanny symmetry.
( reason I asked you is cause I assume you are aware of the level of above)
I submit there is a conspiracy but not by the authors of the bible.
By the most high.
Do you find it odd you find Jesus and what ultimately happened throughout the old testament?
It certainly wasnt a conspiracy by Jews cause they want to stay as far away from Jesus as possible.

You're forgetting about the endless list of contradictions..

NSFW:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

Moral Precepts

24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13
28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15
29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1
34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6
38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8
39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14
40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2
41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15
43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8
46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34
47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32
49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21
52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39

Historical Facts

58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19
59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6
60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
Pharaoh hardened his own heart
Ex 8:15
61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9
62. Moses feared Pharaoh
Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
Moses did not fear Pharaoh
Heb 11:27
63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
Num 25:9
There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
1 Cor 10:8
64. John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21
65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary's husband was Heli
Luke 3:23
66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
Gen 11:12
The father of Salah was Cainan
Luke 3:35,36
67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6
68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16
69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39
70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2
71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20
72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24
73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10
74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26
75. Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38
76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15
77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40
78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7
79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
Matt 27:5
Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
Acts 1:18
80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas
Acts 1:18
The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests
Matt 27:6,7
81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1
82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10
83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1
84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5
85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5
86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
Acts 1:8,5
Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
John 20:22
88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49
89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17
90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
Acts 1:9,12
Christ ascended from Bethany
Luke 24:50,51
91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
speechless
Acts 9:7
Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
Acts 26:14
92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
Gen 12:5
Abraham went not knowing where
Heb 11:8
93. Abraham had two sons
Gal 4:22
Abraham had but one son
Heb 11:17
94. Keturah was Abraham's wife
Gen 25:1
Keturah was Abraham's concubine
1 Chron 1:32
95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
interposition of Providence
Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
old without any interposition of providence
Gen 25:1,2
96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
Josh 24:32
Abraham bought it of Hamor
Acts 7:16
97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
forever
Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13
98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
1 Chron 20:5
99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
2 Kings 8:25
Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
2 Kings 9:29
100. Michal had no child
2 Sam 6:23
Michal had five children
2 Sam 21:8
101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
2 Sam 24:1
David was tempted by Satan to number the people
1 Chron 21:1
102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
Judah 500,000
2 Sam 24:9
The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
Judah 470,000
1 Chron 21:5
103. David sinned in numbering the people
2 Sam 24:10
David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
1 Kings 15:5
104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of
famine.
2 Sam 24:13
It was not seven years, but three years of famine
1 Chron 21:11,12
105. David took seven hundred horsemen
2 Sam 8:4
David took seven thousand horsemen
1 Chron 18:4
106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
2 Sam 24:24
David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
gold
1 Chron 21:25
107. David's throne was to endure forever.
Ps 89:35-37
David's throne was cast down
Ps 89:44

Speculative Doctrines

108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5
110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19
111. Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34
112. Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27
113. Christ's witness of himself is true.
John 8:18,14
Christ's witness of himself is not true.
John 5:31
114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
John 15:13/ John 10:11
Christ laid down his life for his enemies
Rom 5:10
115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 19:7
It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 18:31
116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
Ex 20:5
Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
Ezek 18:20
117. Man is justified by faith alone
Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
Man is not justified by faith alone
James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13
118. It is impossible to fall from grace
John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
It is possible to fall from grace
Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21
119. No man is without sin
1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
Christians are sinless
1 John 3: 9,6,8
120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
There is to be no resurrection of the dead
Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14
121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
Prov 11:31
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10
122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
Endless misery the portion of all mankind
Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2
123. The Earth is to be destroyed
2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
The Earth is never to be destroyed
Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4
124. No evil shall happen to the godly
Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
Evil does happen to the godly
Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7
125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
Job 42:12
Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17
126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
Prov 15:6
Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
Luke 6:24
127. The Christian yoke is easy
Matt 11:28,29,30
The Christian yoke is not easy
John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8
128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness
Gal 5:22
The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury
Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11
129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
Longevity denied to the wicked
Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17
130. Poverty a blessing
Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
Riches a blessing
Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
Prov 30:8,9
131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
Prov 3:13,17
Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
Eccl 1:17,18
132. A good name is a blessing
Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
A good name is a curse
Luke 6:26
133. Laughter commended
Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
Laughter condemned
Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4
134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
Prov 22:15
There is no remedy for foolishness
Prov 27:22
135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:5
A fool should not be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:4
136. Temptation to be desired
James 1:2
Temptation not to be desired
Matt 6:13
137. Prophecy is sure
2 Pet 1:19
Prophecy is not sure
Jer 18:7-10
138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years
Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
Man's life is but seventy years
Ps 90:10
139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
Gen 9:2
The fear of man is not upon the lion
Prov 30:30
140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19
141. Moses was a very meek man
Num 12:3
Moses was a very cruel man
Num 31:15,17
142. Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13
143. All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17

The story of Jesus as written by Mark and then copied by Matthew, Luke and then John was written as an allegorical fiction, probably to supplement an already established religion.. as written about by Paul.

 

[methamaniac]

^
get to later time for chess

 

[rickolasnice]

Has anyone here read the Infancy Gospels of Thomas or the Arabic gospels of Infancy?

Two of my favourite gospels.. Both writing about the same periods of Jesus' life (infancy, obviously)

Well worth a read.

 

[Journyman16]

Again HUGE freaking conspiracy my good friend.
But it's the only real choice you got to explain it.
Well I guess guess one could chalk it up to coincidence if you dont have a hard time swallowing.

You say 'conspiracy' like it's a bad thing. Conspiracy is simply when two or more people get together and plan something that others don't know about. If you want to make a power play, the idea of co-opting the legends from a people's past is a logical choice to make - "ooh, look, the people are expecting a messiah, so let's give them one" and then creating a background that fits almost all the 'prophecies' to a T.

And remember, it's not like this was just a new bunch of people - there is continuous heritage all the way from the guy who became Abraham. It is not at all difficult to imagine passing down the secrets from high priest to high priest.

The problem is, YOU are starting at a point of "this is all true and meaningful" and so what I say gets filtered and you reject it. But there IS evidence if you're willing to read it. Saul/Paul has a magical conversion on the road to Damascus and goes from enemy of the Christian to controlling how it is implemented and who gets to run it. Nobody saw the conversion but almost overnight he is THE Authority for all the new sects springing up.

You don't see that as suss?

Look at the story as it comes from the REAL 'best evidence' of the Dead Sea scrolls and Nag Hamardi. Mary Magdalene is probably the highest of the disciples, Peter was more reactionary than apostolic, Judas did what he was asked to do rather than betrayal. How much of the story contained in the NT is actually true? The evidence is saying very little of it, but what I think is the conspiracy here?

The Roman Church moulded Christianity - even the Protestant versions are defined by it and the parts of it they rejected. For centuries only the Church could even read the bible and they mucked about with it several times that we know of, let alone what they might have changed every time they re-copied it.

Even today, the possible extra information that might help or hinder the belief in the biblical 'truths' is being withheld - scrolls discovered in Qumran are still hidden by the Rockefeller archives. There's supposed to be 3 new ones on their way, 'discovered' recently in leather cases among the works hidden away after the Dead Sea scrolls were found.

What is so delicate among these original works that the public has it hidden away for 60+ years?

It's not conspiracy to look and see a crafted story-for-purpose amongst all this - it is rather a blindness NOT to ascribe to men the willingness to make sure THEY stay in power and the story backs their version of reality.

 

[pill_billy]

Sounds like you're preplanning your case for judgement day. Maybe it will be justified.
Somethings in bible are literal and some are figurative. Context is key.
But even if when your wrong the moral is the same.

Ps God has sent you a sign
Its up to you to read it.
If you need help ask God for help and you will get it
if you are willing to recieve it

ooo so for me god sent a book that makes no sense and for moses he get a burning bush and shit? i just cant get my head around it and if god doesnt understand that and i have to stand in front of him and explain myself and my actions i have no problem with that.... im not perfect but i try and do right, not so i can mabe go to heaven, but because its the right thing to do... which in my opion is more rightous then ooo well better to do it and there not be a heaven then not do it and there is type of muther fuckers... but you dont think its just a little bit wierd that the people who wrote this were apprently speaking for the most powerful force in the universe and he didnt tell them one single thing that they could have not possible known... like an atom is, or the earth isnt the center of the universe... kinda convient that everything they got wrong just happened to be the general thinking for the day... and im not preparing a case for judgment i just think logically and ive prayed to god to send me an irrefutable sign and i would turn my life around and fulley be devoted to him... if im goin to do all that and he cant even prove be a doubt that he exists, but obviously can because its all throught the bible then what does that say about god.... not to even mention why would god be so petty in the bible... like the story where he destroys a mans entire life just to prove to the devil that the man will still praise him.... thats fucked up

 

[pill_billy]

AND the biggest flaw with the story of the bible is ok if god is good and the devil is evil, then why would the devil punish you for being evil? the bigger story in the bible is that one day theres gna be an all out war between good and evil... so if your on his team wouldnt he want to win, therefore not put you through suffering?? it just doesnt make sense to me... unless you remeber that 1900 years ago when the story was written ppl didnt have the thought process and reasoning skills people have today and just took everything at face value.... prob why alot of the crazier stories took place when no one was around

 

[ForEverAfter]

As rick detailed, there is NO historical evidence of Christ whatsoever.

 

[Journyman16]

Also - John doesn't talk about Jesus like he was a human man, much less so one that walked the earth with him..

It's possible they refer to the same person in different ways. Christ wasn't a name, it was a title. He's Jesus The Christ. So maybe they could speak of Jesus as the man and Jesus Christ when he was in Messiah-mode?

So John may have walked with Jesus but all those passages are speaking of the Christ mode I think - that would make a different form when speaking of the Messiah.

 

[ForEverAfter]

The Gospel of John

The gospel identifies its author as "the disciple whom Jesus loved." Although the text does not name this disciple, by the beginning of the 2nd century, a tradition had begun to form which identified him with John the Apostle, one of the Twelve (Jesus' innermost circle). Although some notable New Testament scholars affirm traditional Johannine scholarship, the majority do not believe that John or one of the Apostles wrote it, and trace it instead to a "Johannine community" which traced its traditions to John; the gospel itself shows signs of having been composed in three "layers", reaching its final form about 90–100 AD.

...

No serious historian disputes John was the author of his Gospel.

Bullshit.

 

[Journyman16]

The Gospels of Mary and Judas seem to know who Jesus was... and unlike the bible, they have NOT been in the hands of people with ...'inclinations' to trifle with the truth. Given they came from the Essenes and were locked away so early in the Christian story, they should hold some credence.

 

[ForEverAfter]

You may know better, and probably do, but I thought there was more primary source reflecting at lest the approximate birth and death of jesus....? Speaking of contemporary Roman sources...

The "birth and death of Christ" are calculated, according to when they were supposed to happen. By carbon-dating and cross-referencing scrolls, they've determined that the "birth date" of Jesus is wrong by roughly 6-8 years. That, however, does not imply that he was ever born. As for his death: same thing. There's no mention of his crucifixion in any historical document. It is "dated" by cross-referencing gospel.

BTW, welcome back from your self-imposed exile, glad to read your thoughts again Was it six months....?

I've been experiencing time dilation, so - yes - for me it was 6 months.

 

[rickolasnice]

It's possible they refer to the same person in different ways. Christ wasn't a name, it was a title. He's Jesus The Christ. So maybe they could speak of Jesus as the man and Jesus Christ when he was in Messiah-mode?

So John may have walked with Jesus but all those passages are speaking of the Christ mode I think - that would make a different form when speaking of the Messiah.

What?

Where'd you get that from? Read the passages again

 

[ForEverAfter]

The Gospels of Mary and Judas seem to know who Jesus was... and unlike the bible, they have NOT been in the hands of people with ...'inclinations' to trifle with the truth. Given they came from the Essenes and were locked away so early in the Christian story, they should hold some credence.

The Gospels of Mary & Judas were written nearly 200 years after Christ.
None of the contributing writers, therefore, knew Christ or anyone directly associated with him.

 

[methamaniac]

ooo so for me god sent a book that makes no sense and for moses he get a burning bush and shit? i just cant get my head around it and if god doesnt understand that and i have to stand in front of him and explain myself and my actions i have no problem with that.... im not perfect but i try and do right, not so i can mabe go to heaven, but because its the right thing to do... which in my opion is more rightous then ooo well better to do it and there not be a heaven then not do it and there is type of muther fuckers... but you dont think its just a little bit wierd that the people who wrote this were apprently speaking for the most powerful force in the universe and he didnt tell them one single thing that they could have not possible known... like an atom is, or the earth isnt the center of the universe... kinda convient that everything they got wrong just happened to be the general thinking for the day... and im not preparing a case for judgment i just think logically and ive prayed to god to send me an irrefutable sign and i would turn my life around and fulley be devoted to him... if im goin to do all that and he cant even prove be a doubt that he exists, but obviously can because its all throught the bible then what does that say about god.... not to even mention why would god be so petty in the bible... like the story where he destroys a mans entire life just to prove to the devil that the man will still praise him.... thats fucked up

You say if God gave you a sign you would turn your life around.
Why do you need to turn your life around?
Ask yourself that.

And phrophets were told a lot of things they couldnt have possibly known.
Daniel predicted tons of things that came true.

 

[rickolasnice]

Such as?

Where's my chess game!

 

[methamaniac]

The Gospels of Mary & Judas were written nearly 200 years after Christ.
None of the contributing writers, therefore, knew Christ or anyone directly associated with him.

You dont find it odd that the argument of Jesus of the time period of Jesus was the question of his divinity and not the question of his existence.
I mean wouldnt the first thing a Jewish Jesus denier want to get on the record if Jesus didnt exist is "hey, jesus cant be God because Jesus isnt real"

 

[rickolasnice]

Meth.. Jesus' divinity nor existence was questioned.. he wasn't written about..

The only historians, if you could call them that, were gentiles, christians, etc etc.. Otherwise they mention Christians, not Jesus.. Tacticus is probably the only one.. but he's probably just accepted the stories that he heard as true.

And a passage in Josephus Flavius' works that is widely accepted to have been added by christians at a later date.

Josephus Flavius followed Titus as he fought his way through Judea in 68AD.. Read the War of the Jews.. If you're well versed in your bible you should notice something.. The same places, in the same order.. The same names in the same places as Lukes story.. and if you have a really keen eye.. you'll spot something else, too.