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Quitting/Tapering Thread.

Thank you Ash and Crankinit <3

The day I posted that was the worst day. That bit of smack I bought didn't bring me back to the start, thank god. 48 hrs after, when I posted, was the worst. I still don't feel right, but I feel fucking exhausted, rather than sick. I'm pretty confident that after this weekend I can go back to work alright. I still feel that every opie wd you, is one closer to the last you ever do, because it's such fucking torture. I always wanted to know what cold turkey smack wd felt like. I just hope that this is my last kick, because I can't do it too many more times.
 
Thank you Ash and Crankinit <3

The day I posted that was the worst day. That bit of smack I bought didn't bring me back to the start, thank god. 48 hrs after, when I posted, was the worst. I still don't feel right, but I feel fucking exhausted, rather than sick. I'm pretty confident that after this weekend I can go back to work alright. I still feel that every opie wd you, is one closer to the last you ever do, because it's such fucking torture. I always wanted to know what cold turkey smack wd felt like. I just hope that this is my last kick, because I can't do it too many more times.

How'd you go foots? :)

A. <3
 
After about three years of regular codeine use and a few attempts to quit, I have finally admitted to myself that I am an addict. I have seen my tolerance increase to the point where I am entering scary levels (for me). To some they may seem inconsequential. But I have found myself taking an entire sheet (12 x 15mg tabs) over the course of about two hours and it's only JUST giving me a buzz. Crazy thing is that I do suffer from chronic knee pain and that was why I started. Now I can't stop. But I desperately want to. I'm so sick of feeling fuzzy-brained, stomach pain that leads to back pain. When I don't have pills for 24 hours I can feel the withdrawal. So I justify taking more. I'm scared about where this addiction is heading. I need to stop. I don't think I can taper it. I don't trust myself. If they're in the house I'll take what I want. I need to quit cold turkey. Any advice would be greatly appreciated for codeine withdrawal specifically. By the way, I have kept this hidden from my husband. He knows I take codeine but he really doesn't know how much. His sister is an ex-heroin addict, so if he knew I am sure he would pull me up on it. I want to do this without him knowing, or without having to see a doctor. Thanks guys.
 
I am bout 2 months off Heroin. I just noticed this thread… so happy it's here.

My question is about my eyes. One, they 'still' look watery sometimes. STILL. lol. wtf?
Also, I hereditarily have dark circles under eyes (slightly), like my dad, but since using opiates for 2 years, they have grown worse it seems and have not been restored to normal type pigmentation. It's not glaringly obvious, but I can tell.

Also, when I get into bed at night I don't have wrestles legs, but I find myself moving my toes a lot. I didn't used to do this before Odd? :\

In addition, to another's comment above. Someone mentioned methadone. I heard you might not get addicted if you taper with it for 7-10 days. I used it briefly to get off Heroin, and it masked the acute phase but I didn't get rea-ddicted to a longer acting opiate (methadone).

Anyways, thanks for listening. :)
 
Hi Captain Brewster,

Thank you so much for reply. It's been on my mind everyday… so happy to hear the circles might not be permanent. And yeah, the watery eyes are a little triggering for me… brings me right back, fast.. mentally.

Those benzos are scary. I used them to taper and/or cope off opiates the first time. They can be evil ime, I don't like them, but they are so addictive… Almost contradictory in means. Creepy little buggars. :sus:

Good luck moving forward…. :)
 
^Thank you :)

After about three years of regular codeine use and a few attempts to quit, I have finally admitted to myself that I am an addict. I have seen my tolerance increase to the point where I am entering scary levels (for me). To some they may seem inconsequential. But I have found myself taking an entire sheet (12 x 15mg tabs) over the course of about two hours and it's only JUST giving me a buzz. Crazy thing is that I do suffer from chronic knee pain and that was why I started. Now I can't stop. But I desperately want to. I'm so sick of feeling fuzzy-brained, stomach pain that leads to back pain. When I don't have pills for 24 hours I can feel the withdrawal. So I justify taking more. I'm scared about where this addiction is heading. I need to stop. I don't think I can taper it. I don't trust myself. If they're in the house I'll take what I want. I need to quit cold turkey. Any advice would be greatly appreciated for codeine withdrawal specifically. By the way, I have kept this hidden from my husband. He knows I take codeine but he really doesn't know how much. His sister is an ex-heroin addict, so if he knew I am sure he would pull me up on it. I want to do this without him knowing, or without having to see a doctor. Thanks guys.

I feel for your situation, hope it works out.

Can you get any time off everything? Away from family (cept the good ones), away from work (very important), and just general responsibilities lifes been throwing at you constantly?

If your guys a good bloke he should understand the situation, you want off, which is a good thing. If he's a good bloke he should understand and be willing to give you a hand. If he's up for it, it will give you great strength. And could strengthen your relationship in the long run.

Good luck!!

EDIT: oh shit, if you continue to take codeine tablets with paracetamol at that rate, your liver is in danger. It's the paracetamol. If you keep needing to do this you need to look into cold water extraction, to rid the most paracetamol possible.

There's threads here that can give you plenty of info on doing it, but your aim is to quit, so we really don't need to go there (hopefully).

Stay positive, it's so possible.
 
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Thanks for the reply Captain Brewster. I think if I didn't have to worry about the paracetamol I would feel less shit about taking the codeine. If it was JUST codeine I'd probably still be taking it to be honest. As soon as I stop for a few hours the pain in my leg is a constant throb. So I know I'm killing my liver, destroying my stomach. I have three kids. I'm 35. I need to be here for a lot more time. I've not heard of cold water extraction but I will definitely look into that. I just need to find a better way to manage my pain. I think what I am most scared of is any future operations I have on my knee that open me up to the need of more pain relief and falling back onto the addiction slippery slope.

ETA - my Dad died from lung cancer 3 and a half months ago. He'd been sick for two years. I think there actually is a correlation between that and my increase in dosage. It numbs the pain in my soul as well as my knee.
 
How'd you go foots? :)

A. <3

Seconded, hope you're well.

After about three years of regular codeine use and a few attempts to quit, I have finally admitted to myself that I am an addict. I have seen my tolerance increase to the point where I am entering scary levels (for me). To some they may seem inconsequential. But I have found myself taking an entire sheet (12 x 15mg tabs) over the course of about two hours and it's only JUST giving me a buzz. Crazy thing is that I do suffer from chronic knee pain and that was why I started. Now I can't stop. But I desperately want to. I'm so sick of feeling fuzzy-brained, stomach pain that leads to back pain. When I don't have pills for 24 hours I can feel the withdrawal. So I justify taking more. I'm scared about where this addiction is heading. I need to stop. I don't think I can taper it. I don't trust myself. If they're in the house I'll take what I want. I need to quit cold turkey. Any advice would be greatly appreciated for codeine withdrawal specifically. By the way, I have kept this hidden from my husband. He knows I take codeine but he really doesn't know how much. His sister is an ex-heroin addict, so if he knew I am sure he would pull me up on it. I want to do this without him knowing, or without having to see a doctor. Thanks guys.

You're definitely entering dangerous levels of use as that much paracetemol, especially if you're dosing like that more than once a day, could easily lead to liver damage. My first and most important suggestion is that you go to a doctor as soon as possible and have your liver function checked - damage can accumulate over time without your knowing. Yeah, you'll have to come clean to the doctor about your addiction, and it will suck and be embarrassing, but your health is more important than that.

I'd also recommend coming clean to your husband, both because secrets and lies (even of ommission) are toxic to relationships, and because if he's a decent guy (presumably he is, or you wouldn't be married to him), then you could use his support. You say you can't taper due to temptation - what if you had him hand out the pills to you? You could withdraw over a few weeks virtually painlessly, assuming your liver isn't in too bad a shape.

If you really feel you can't tell your husband and you can't taper yourself, then you'll just have to suck it up and go cold turkey. It sucks, but not as much as it will suck if you keep taking the pills (not to mention the damage they'll eventually start doing to your body). The happiness opiates provide isn't free, it's only on loan, and the sooner you pay back that debt and kick the pills, the easier it will be - the lower the interest rate, so to speak. Given that you're using a weaker opiate and at a relatively low dose (not to minimize your addiction, just pointing out that the withdrawals will be shorter and weaker than something like morphine or heroin), it shouldn't be too bad. You'll be depressed and have trouble sleeping, at the worst you'll have a runny nose and some minor aches and pains, and your knee will be worse than normal (try taking ibuprofen - without codeine, obviously - for that). And yeah, you'll crave the pills, but if you're serious about quitting, you'll be able to pull through.

You'll also probably find yourself subconsciously looking for replacements - other things that make you feel good and regulate your mood. Be aware of this, and try and make sure it's the healthiest option possible. Avoid other drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) during the period of withdrawal and the weeks afterward, but also watch out for sudden cravings for feel good junk foods that contain fat/salt/sugar. It varies from person to person what the specific replacement is, but there's almost always one. At the least, try and avoid the aforementioned options, if you feel up for it, try exercise or meditation, both healthy and well known methods for mood regulation. If you're not up for that, just take a few days off, lie in bed, watch some TV, do some reading, whatever you usually do with your spare quiet time. The main idea is to at the least, avoid replacing a bad habit with a worse one (a lot of opiate addicts quit only to become alcoholics and/or chronic smokers, or addicted to other drugs, and never realize what they're doing until they've got another monkey on their back worse than the last).

You're doing the right thing, nipping this in the bud. Good luck, and post back with any other questions.
 
Crankinit i have no idea who your quoting but the only thing I would say to ComeAlongPond (not-so stealthy edit - worked out who it was) is because your trying to stop by yourself that will be quite a challenge. If you fall off the horse don't feel guilty if you don't. don't punish yourself. Here are some things you can do/consider

- doing cold water extract on your codeine pills. This will remove as much as paracetamol (there is a thread that details how to do this). This will greatly reduce load on your liver.
- never ever drink when eating paracetamol (APAP). It makes the paracetamol far more toxic on your liver.
- definitely go get your knee fixed. I too had a terrible knee injury. I spent years moaning about it only to visit to the physio who resolved in one go. So do it. stop putting it off. Its $70!
- you should go to your GP and get a referral for counselling. someone closed to me for years felt it was a terrible weakness to speak to someone only to found it did immense help when things came to a head and they were forced to see one.

But the most important thing you (and crankinit) need to do is learn about drug addictions and what is causing the withdrawals (which is related but not caused by addiction). This is a quite a weighty article - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2783351/ but explains that the sickness we feel when we've missed a dose of opiates is caused by Glial (the pink structural sponge stuff in our brain) being pummelled by inflammation molecules.

What makes you different is that in early childhood your mother suffered elevated levels of stress (cortisone) which in turn caused your brain to become primed and react differently. Before you took opiates your brain was crying out for them and when it doesn't get them you'd get sick in various ways. Look at your behaviours before then and see if anyone of them would have generated endorphins (the bodies natural opiates). Did you suffer depression and/or addictions of another type? Did you take other drugs in early. This effect is drug agnostic , meaning that it doesn't matter the drug.

This Times article explains this massive paradigm shift:

“This is a paradigm shift in how one views drug reward,” says lead author Linda Watkins of the University of Colorado, Boulder. “All prior concepts of why drugs like opioids are rewarding, why drugs become abused, have focused exclusively on neurons.”

This is why Professor Watkins and Dr Hutchinson (an aussie) have developed a medication that is a simple anti-inflammatory that targets the glial in your brain. This drug has worked wonders in its trials. Withdrawals have been smashed into nothing. Drug Tolerances removed and the quality of their painkilling affect improved. In fact they have discovered that it works on almost any narcotic withdrawal i.e. Meth. Suggesting that drug addiction be it opiates, meth or cocaine are all caused by glial being ultra sensitive.

So don't feel guilty or bad that your taking drugs. Obviously you want to control your intake. You can either try and do it yourself or you can seek help.

Your husbands misconceptions are going to be difficult to battle. But you did take an oath to be open and honest with them. Yes his sister is an ex-addict but that's no excuse for him to believe in lies. Our society has created a lie about opiates and drugs in general that somehow drug use is some sort of weakness in character, that its simple to say no to them and that if you fail then your shit, your nothing. A dirty, barely human, being who should be shunned and attacked.

There is no payback mechanism in your brain that is winding up when you take opiates only to wound down into some presumed sickness/withdrawals. Its a structural problem. Your brain is primed to take opiates and to respond violently when you don't have them. This isn't your fault. Now there are degrees of damage. Some people need huge and regular opiates to starve off the response their glial is undergoing. Obviously you aren't at the extreme of the scale. Some people are highly functional and can take drugs (doesn't mean their brains aren't damaged either) whilst others are utterly dysfunctional.

I think if you can wrap your head around this utterly ground breaking research and discuss it, in the context of his sister addiction then you could perhaps create a moment of clarity in his mind and make him see that her addiction and behaviours weren't caused by a weakness in character but rather a malfunctioning brain. A really good book is 'the realm of the hungry ghost' by Dr. Gabor Maté

Remember everyone who wants to argue with me - the proof is in the pudding. Why would a simple anti-inflammatory medication stop opiate withdrawals if it was your pleasure centre/neurons/receptors crying out for more opiates? The senior consultant at a major centre of addiction medicine was happy to argue about the old orthodoxy but quietly conceded to me that ibudilast is in trials and will be coming to Australia (about 2 years off). This says that they are well aware of what's happening.

So what to do if. You could talk to your GP about going on a program and dosing at a chemist. GP's can take on up to 5 patients. If your GP denies this ask him to call

Specialist Advisory Line

Contact NSW Drug & Alcohol Specialist Advisory Services (DASAS) on (02) 9361 8006 in Sydney metropolitan areas or 1800 023 687 in NSW regional/rural areas for clinical advice on the diagnosis and clinical management of patients with alcohol or other drug related problems

That of course if your in NSW. I'm sure your state would have a similar service. Look up in google your state's medical department Opioid Treatment Program.

Of course though your doctor would be reluctant to prescribe a powerful synthetic opioid for what he'll blatherly assume is a nothing addiction (people who are addicted to codeine are looked as quite weak) but perseve. Maybe he prescribe clondeine to help you through the acute withdrawals. There are a range of drugs that can take the edge off the withdrawals.

The real question about a program is really how long have you been using. Is it just 2 years or is it something in order of 10-20 years. Have you engaged in behaviours that would create more endorphins then otherwise? Have you used codeine on a less regularly scale for much longer? If you've lived with opiates all your life then admit it so. But if this is really something that happened in the last 2 years then maybe you'll be lucky, kick the addiction with some GP help and then go on with your life.

Edit: and woah, have a look at this! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25386959 - this paper suggests that long term codeine use actually causes you to experience more pain in relation to injuries! How paradoxically. You take codeine to treat a small/medium pain. You end up taking it for years and the pain gets worse! You think its because your tolerant of opiates but rather its because the opiate itself is affecting your brains response to pain.

/end long post.
 
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Omg after one month of 400mg tramadol and 20-50mg ir morphine daily and a half assed taper Im suffering only very very minor withdrawls...just craving and feeling not quite right. Im sooo stoked i thought i was in for horribleness. being my 5th detox off opiates I was prepared for the worst. yay!

My retarded doctor (who was prescribing my meds) wouldnt even give me loperamide this week. huh? one week im getting morphine then the next week you wont prescribe a non opiate opiate for the shits. Couldnt even get clonidine either!

Hoping to get on suboxone in the near future so I cant go back to using poppy seeds/oxy/morphine every day and im really keen to see what the anti depressent qualites are like - after trying every other option for depression under the sun.
happy days
 
Omg after one month of 400mg tramadol and 20-50mg ir morphine daily and a half assed taper Im suffering only very very minor withdrawls...just craving and feeling not quite right. Im sooo stoked i thought i was in for horribleness. being my 5th detox off opiates I was prepared for the worst. yay!

My retarded doctor (who was prescribing my meds) wouldnt even give me loperamide this week. huh? one week im getting morphine then the next week you wont prescribe a non opiate opiate for the shits. Couldnt even get clonidine either!

Hoping to get on suboxone in the near future so I cant go back to using poppy seeds/oxy/morphine every day and im really keen to see what the anti depressent qualites are like - after trying every other option for depression under the sun.
happy days

Loperamide is OTC, at least in Aus. Fucking weird that he wouldn't give you clonidine though.

Personally I never noticed any AD effect from bupe beyond the normal opioid effect.
 
Yeah I just went and got the loperamide from the supermarket. Silly doctors!

Were you the one who had trouble getting the Epilim? Does Clonidine lower the seizure threshold at all?

Can't think of any reason why he'd deny you loperamide...apart from it being available OTC.
 
Loperamide is OTC, at least in Aus. Fucking weird that he wouldn't give you clonidine though.

Personally I never noticed any AD effect from bupe beyond the normal opioid effect.

I've never been able to get clonidine either..they tell me because it lowers blood pressure and mine is already quite low.

Ashley said:
How'd you go foots?

Crankinit said:
Seconded, hope you're well.

I'm back on sub now. Going completely off everything didn't work, as much as I hate that. I'm more prepared for a slower, long taper I suppose...I guess it's clear the physical side isn't the biggest problem for me. Thanks for asking :)
 
Best of luck Footsy. There's no rush; which ever way you get there, undertaking the journey is what matters.

Hope everyone's doing well keeping away from their bad habits. I've been clean from opiates for a little over two months now, and the cravings have abated so much comparing one month ago to now.

I'm still using other drugs, mainly alcohol on the weekends and pot once every day/two days. Had some lovely caps on the weekend which bolstered my resolve to stay away from opiates; not sure how, but M has this ability to temporarily open a window up to your true self so that you can look at it and realize where you're at and need to be in life (for that reason I consider it more of a psychedelic than stimulant, but that's a different discussion.)

Anyway, I still crave altered state of consciousness, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel confident in saying more days than not, I wake, and am thankful i'm no longer dependent on opiates and that I can feel again. Boy is it nice to feel again. :)
 
Taking subgruinousa's helped me too in terms of staying away from the opi's.

I was hesitant at first, but once the beauty was shown, it made me rethink using for the next day progression back to normal life.

I'll be revisiting shrooms a lot more these days, well classic psyches in general really (ie. LSD).
 
I'm back on sub now. Going completely off everything didn't work, as much as I hate that. I'm more prepared for a slower, long taper I suppose...I guess it's clear the physical side isn't the biggest problem for me. Thanks for asking

Yeah the sub thing is a pain, but slow and steady and all that. I don't think the physical side is the biggest problem for anyone, tbh, or every addict would just taper and never go back. Anyway, hope it works out for you.

If it makes you feel better I'm also tapering off subs atm (after 3 years :O can't believe it's been that long), and at 1mg/week it's cruisy, barely a drop of w/d symptoms. So far anyway... I'm curious about what jumping off it will be like.
 
I'm back on sub now. Going completely off everything didn't work, as much as I hate that. I'm more prepared for a slower, long taper I suppose...I guess it's clear the physical side isn't the biggest problem for me. Thanks for asking :)

Same boat here foots. Best of luck with it..

If possible, save up your takeaways for when you want to come off. The best way I've found is to cut them up into smaller doses. It isn't THAT hard to come off. I think I just didn't have enough going to keep me busy last time I stopped the Bupe, was thinking it was smart at the time to take time off work, won't do that again.

Just hate having to go into the chemist. That's the worst part and it's an exercise in control also because I'm always offered drugs or asked if I want to sell my suboxone. Should find a quieter chemist that does it.
 
Yup the physical withdrawls are a factor but I reckon once you get down to lower dose range it's the psychological dependance that stops people from jumping off entirely.

Everyone has something in their life that acts as drug, whether it's exercise or social media or eating. Abstinence doesn't work if you don't have a viable ALTERNATIVE to your drug use.
That's why someone can go from dependance on meth to opiates, or heroin to Jesus.
Creating a happy fulfilling life for yourself is the key abstinence from "drugs". Trying to abstain entirely without addressing the underlying issues in your life is a waste of time IMHO.
 
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