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The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

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So the ills of the world are the poorest people who inhabit it, not the ones actually in charge of running it....


Have I got that part right?

If I may relate to you a little... what would Jesus do?
 
I don't care about your religion, though. No offense.

I don't draw socio-economic control across religious lines. There are impoverished muslims. There are also multi-bilionaire muslims. The same applies to any religion, so it's not of much value to me.

Since you brought it up, I certainly wouldn't consider the Papacy to be without influence.

To reiterate once more, what would Jesus do about immigration policy or wealth distribution? Simple question.
 
Bardeaux said:
It has. But between the early 1930s and the 1970s, these large businesses were useful and weren't the center of the economic universe. It was much more common for a man (or woman) to own his own small, successful business. The people who did work for large conglomerate corporations were paid progressive wages as production also increased. People didn't flock to Detroit and Chicago to earn just enough to live in squalor. Big business has been rolling back labor standards and regulation for several decades, and as a result, the "middle class" is being strangled to a slow death.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but I do have to blame credit, and American's use of it, for driving down wages as well.

When you're in debt, you aren't as picky about what job you'll take.
 
paranoid android said:
Umm are you saying Bardeaux is blaming everything on European Catholics somehow?
Click to expand...

Not just him but more or less...

whose to blame for Africa's present problems? We say is colonialism.

whose to blame for problems in Middle East? Blame white guys for "putting people in power there"

Problems of U.S.A.? Blame all on old white guys, CEOs not paying worker enough, politician abusing the system

Perhaps not just Catholics but every problem of the world somehow gets attributed back to Europeans.
 
Is blame actually a useful cognitive frame for use generating and implementing solutions for various ethical and tactical problems?
Its track-record thus far has proven rather poor. . .

ebola
 
Escher's Waterfall said:
I agree with that, but I do have to blame credit, and American's use of it, for driving down wages as well.

When you're in debt, you aren't as picky about what job you'll take.
Click to expand...

Indeed. There's a whole 'nother thread we could fill up on this idea alone. In the 1970s, a number of things happened to the American (and elsewhere) working class. First, automation began replacing manual labor at a faster rate than before. It was inevitable, but could have been adaptable. Second, women began entering the full time workforce like never before, creating an even larger demand for employment. Third, rather than deciding to continue raising wages to be flush with productivity as they've done for 100 years, capitalists developed a brilliant idea. Personal credit cards. This allowed the capitalist class to flat-line wages while also providing the middle/working class with the illusion that everything was still good under the sun, despite stagnating or even lowered wages. Now instead of paying workers correctly as they always have, the credit industry can subsidize these wages at interest.

The ill effects of this though, we've already begun to see and we haven't seen the worst of it yet.
 
LosBlancos said:
Not just him but more or less...

whose to blame for Africa's present problems? We say is colonialism.

whose to blame for problems in Middle East? Blame white guys for "putting people in power there"

Problems of U.S.A.? Blame all on old white guys, CEOs not paying worker enough, politician abusing the system

Perhaps not just Catholics but every problem of the world somehow gets attributed back to Europeans.
Click to expand...

Umm as a good Irish Catholic Atheist i don't get that impression at all. The church didn't have nearly as much to do with colonization as individual Nations and Empires for starters so i don't know where you made that assumption. Granted the church certainly didn't help with their "charity" by telling Africans not to revolt against their oppressors and for making up all that bullshit about HIV that church doctrine did.

Also i hardly think Bardeaux is blaming every white person for the problems in the middle east and since when is every white person Catholic?

And since when is every CEO a Catholic?

As usual your argument makes about as much sense as a Emu on acid.
 
Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon Declares State Of Emergency Ahead Of Grand Jury Decision


The Huffington Post | By Ashley Alman

Posted: 11/17/2014 3:32 pm EST Updated: 11/18/2014 12:05 am EST

Gov. Jay Nixon (D) issued an executive order on Monday declaring a state of emergency in Missouri as the nation awaits a grand jury decision in the case of the fatal shooting of Michael Brown by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.

Citing "periods of unrest" in the city of Ferguson and other places in the St. Louis area following Brown's Aug. 9 death, Nixon announced the executive order as a measure to protect the citizens and businesses of Missouri from "violence and damage."

"I further direct the Missouri State Highway Patrol together with the St. Louis County Police Department and the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department to operate as a Unified Command to protect civil rights and ensure public safety in the City of Ferguson and the St. Louis region," Nixon wrote in the order, noting that citizens reserve their right to assemble peacefully.

Protesters have already begun demonstrating throughout Ferguson, St. Louis and the surrounding areas, as the grand jury's decision on whether to indict Wilson could come at any moment. On Monday, a group of protesters gathered in Clayton, where the grand jury is deliberating. Others staged a "die-in" in University City, lying down on the street and pretending to have been shot.

Read the full executive order below:

WHEREAS, the City of Ferguson and the St. Louis region have experienced periods of unrest over the past three months; and

WHEREAS, the United States Department of Justice and St. Louis County authorities are conducting separate criminal investigations into the facts surrounding the death of Michael Brown; and

WHEREAS, the United States Department of Justice and St. Louis County authorities could soon announce the findings of their independent criminal investigations; and

WHEREAS, regardless of the outcomes of the federal and state criminal investigations, there is the possibility of expanded unrest; and

WHEREAS, the State of Missouri will be prepared to appropriately respond to any reaction to these announcements; and

WHEREAS, our citizens have the right to peacefully assemble and protest and the State of Missouri is committed to protecting those rights; and

WHEREAS, our citizens and businesses must be protected from violence and damage; and

WHEREAS, an invocation of the provisions of Sections 44.010 through 44.130, RSMo, is appropriate to ensure the safety and welfare of our citizens.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, JEREMIAH W. (JAY) NIXON, GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and Laws of the State of Missouri, including Sections 44.010 through 44.130, RSMo, do hereby declare a State of Emergency exists in the State of Missouri.

I further direct the Missouri State Highway Patrol together with the St. Louis County Police Department and the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department to operate as a Unified Command to protect civil rights and ensure public safety in the City of Ferguson and the St. Louis region.

I further order that the St. Louis County Police Department shall have command and operational control over security in the City of Ferguson relating to areas of protests, acts of civil disobedience and conduct otherwise arising from such activities.

I further order that the Unified Command may exercise operational authority in such other jurisdictions it deems necessary to protect civil rights and ensure public safety and that other law enforcement agencies shall assist the Unified Command when so requested and shall cooperate with operational directives of the Unified Command.

I further order, pursuant to Section 41.480, RSMo, the Adjutant General of the State of Missouri, or his designee, to forthwith call and order into active service such portions of the organized militia as he deems necessary to protect life and property and assist civilian authorities and it is further directed that the Adjutant General or his designee, and through him, the commanding officer of any unit or other organization of such organized militia so called into active service take such action and employ such equipment as may be necessary to carry out requests processed through the Missouri State Highway Patrol and ordered by the Governor of the state to protect life and property and support civilian authorities.

This Order shall expire in thirty days unless extended in whole or in part by subsequent Executive Order.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused to be affixed the Great Seal of the State of Missouri, in the City of Jefferson, on this 17th day of November, 2014.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/17/missouri-state-of-emergency_n_6173524.html
 
ferguson-riot-rules.jpg

Those list of demands are such a fucking joke.


The preservation of human life should go both ways the protesters should also be concerned with people's safety The police shouldn't give the out of town instigators time to plan out their mayhem. It's pretty obvious that they don't want the cops tapping their phones or running other surveillance because there is stuff they don't want the cops to hear. The first night the new wave of protests started after the Guy in St. Louis got shot for trying to murder a cop with a stolen gun a massive crowd of protesters broke through the tape a chased a small group of offers down the street surrounding them on a dark back roads. Thankfully they were able to escape; I honestly thought they were going to die. Later that night they surrounded another small group of cops on a main roads then wined when they got maced. Just like I expected they put up a video titled "peaceful protesters getting maced" with the part were they threatened the cops edited out. After that night after night the cops would just stand there like statues as the protesters screamed fuck the police, you racist murder, and even threatened to kill their families. They still had the fucking nerve to bitch about the cops using excessive force for wearing protective gear. The protesters are acting like it's still the 1950s. Lots of protesters were stealing American flags from people's yards and burning them. They would block off traffic for long periods of time and threaten pedestrians and still didn't get arrested. They purposely created a situation were the cops would need riot gear just so they could use it to demonize them. Having armored vehicles, rubber bullets, rifles, and tear gas on hand is 100% justified when countless innocent lives are on the line. As long as they only use it when necessary I see nothing wrong with it. Rather than asking not to be arrested for throwing water bottles and other so called minor law breaking; they should urge their fellow protesters not to do it.

When they say the media they don't mean legit media sources. They mean the radical out of town instigators leading these protests. They took advantage of the black communities fear and mistrust of the police, by spreading the lies about the kid in St. Louis who tried to murder a cop with a stolen gun being unarmed. Some of these so called media people have been directly responsible for the violence. The legal observers are the lawyers guild which have unlimited funds to bail out the protesters who choose to break the law.

It's amazing how they try and act like they want to communicate and reason with when that is not at all what they want. Like I said before; night after night they would just scream and curse in the cops face like a bunch of middle schoolers. I'll never forget the first night when the cops set up a road block and were getting ready to mace the protesters. This one skinny white boy walked up to the police and started actually talking to them while everyone else was just shouting fuck the police, we don't negotiate with terrorists. He stood up to the police; got them to back off and even got the armored vehicle to pull away. Want to guess what happened next? They accused him of making the protest about him self; then they accused him of being a cop. After that they knocked him out. This kid put his heart and soul into standing up for people he considered his brothers and they thanked him by violently assaulting him. They are more about overthrowing the police than actually reasoning with them. I even heard one black person say "I could never do that"; referring to the white boy talking to the police. That's a load of fucking bull shit. Before the out of town instigators took over I saw several black protesters conversing with cops and even shaking hands.
 
I don't live there but have watched the protesters live streams when the St. Louis protest first started up and I wonder how many people here defending the protesters have done the same.

I just wish they would get this emotional about ending drive byes and other senseless killings in their own community.

Of coarse there have been black victims racially motivated killings by the police but ever person with black skin shot by a cop with white skin isn't the victim of a hate crime.
 
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