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Spice - Bring back Krokodil say Russians

Ismene

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Jun 17, 2005
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13,158
This is a hit of spice, the collective name given to various synthetic smoking mixtures making headlines in Russia. On the market for five years, spice has the potential to be deadly.

According to Russian authorities, in recent weeks the spice epidemic has taken 25 lives and led to 700 people seeking medical attention. Hardly a day goes by without a fresh horror story of adolescents dying from the drug. Earlier this month a refugee from Luhansk in east Ukraine died after smoking with her friends in a town in southern Russia. Four others were taken to hospital.

Spice is a cannabis substitute made from various herbs with the addition of lab-synthesised chemicals. Authorities say the problem is that each time a smoking mixture is analysed and banned by authorities, the formula is altered and the newly legal mix can be sold again. Parliament is considering passing a bill to ban all synthetic smoking mixtures.

“You lose all your coordination,” says one Muscovite spice addict. “You can’t think properly, and you can’t walk. It’s like being catastrophically drunk, but there is also a panic and terror. I vomited twice and shit myself once. You begin to sweat, have crashing palpitations and feel sick. Often, you’ll simply begin projectile vomiting, with no warning. If I stop smoking now, within two hours I will be vomiting. It’s no better than heroin withdrawal, perhaps it’s even worse.”

A typical week sees several news stories in Russian local press detailing horrendous deaths and suicides attributed to spice: children jumping from windows, heart attacks, varicose veins hanging down like grapes, even self-immolation.

Spice is just the latest horror drug to hit Russia. Several years ago krokodil, a synthetic heroin substitute made from boiling codeine tablets with other ingredients, became popular. Devastatingly addictive, the drug would literally rot the flesh of users, leading to appalling wounds and a quick death. Sure, you died young but it was like kissing God claimed one user. When the sale of codeine was banned two years ago, spice began to pick up in popularity.

“They ban one nightmare drug and another one pops up,” says Anya Sarang, a Russian activist who works on rights for drugs users. “It’s a natural consequence of the firefighting approach we have to drug use. Of course we need to ban spice, but if marijuana was legal, nobody would turn to these awful spice mixes to smoke. But of course, that’s a fairly unrealistic policy in the Russian climate.”


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/20/spice-synthetic-drug-gaining-griprrussia
 
Damn Russians.. always going too far

Alot of governments need to step up their game.. really it's just getting worse and worse every ban
 
Im a bit confused as to what it is? Are they those cannabinoid jobs that MDB and FG smoke and mixed to a crazy level or something else entirely??

And yep Hangover, those Russians really know how to go for it with the deadly drugs.. It depicts how lost and disillusioned young Russians must be. Sad :(
 
Yea, mixtures of various synthetic cannabinoids. Some of those appear to give terrible withdrawal symptoms when overdone, and gawd knows what else they do in the long and short term. Not like the familiar ol' delta-9 THC at all. :(
 
The drug war gets more and more ridiculous year by year.

Shit, when we first banned a load of drugs, people came up with a load of new drugs for people to take which had much worse negative effects on the users. This was bad, so of course we banned those drugs too. But then a new load of drugs came out, which had even worse side effects! So we banned those too. And now a new crop of drugs is coming out, with even worse side effects than those. What shall we do?

How fucking blind and idiotic is our society that the answer is again "Ban them!"?
 
"Ban them!"?

I think it's time we'd had a go at UN-BANNING something, don't you?

Government seems pretty eager to move against relatively harmless psychedelics, but can't seem to get their fingers out in the case of synthetic cannabinoids, which pose by far the greatest risk to users of pretty much any available British RCs. Cannabis is the most popular illegal drug & these synthetics offer a legal opportunity for young people to try it, or so they think. The dangers of pre-mixed smoking material are myriad. The chemicals change regularly, they're often improperly, dangerously, erratically dosed. The compounds themselves are little understood & often microgram active, very powerful weight for weight.

Ten times more people are being admitted to A&E through use of these things than for cannabis itself, & they are often serious cases, for seizures, loss of counciousness etc etc. Cannabis A&E admissions are usually for panic attacks, anxiety. Nothing life-threatening, in other words.

If the government would only =DLEGALISE=D weed the bumb buggers would kill the market for this poison over-night. It makes sense.
 
The real problem is the UN, not individual governments. Even the most blinkered leaders know all about the farcical failure of prohibitionist policies, yet few will openly contradict the UN's stance.

Even within the UN, there are calls for a policy change, specifically from countries like Columbia and Guatemala, where the damage cause by the illicit drug trade is the most obvious: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/30/un-drugs-policy-split-leaked-paper

But to quote a comment from the article linked above:

That's basically correct - the drug cartels and criminal gangs have been dropping billions of dollars (from illegal drug sales) into the U.S. / European / Middle Eastern / Swiss banking systems for decades now, accepting that the bankers involved take large percentages in return for laundering their dirty cash. The banks involved have been fingered repeatedly and include some of the biggest names on the planet. For example, the British bank HSBC and the US Bank of America & Wachovia will return numerous hits if you include "drug money laundering" on Google news. Don't believe it?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-02/hsbc-judge-approves-1-9b-drug-money-laundering-accord.html

It's a pretty lucrative business, and if drugs were legalized, it would all come to an end, removing a significant source of illicit funds for banks based in Wall Street, London, Dubai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Zurich, etc.
Funny how the world really works, innit?

So I ain't holding my breath just yet.
 
The change of attitude in the US toward cannabis is definitely encouraging, don't get me wrong. Bear in mind, however, that it wouldn't have happened without a lengthy campaign with the emphasis firmly on its unique health benefits.

I don't see how that opens the door for decriminalising cocaine, or LSD for that matter.
 
Neither do I. But although I'd like to see legalisation across the board, it's pretty unrealistic & unlikely at the moment. I'm sure you remember I petitioned the Home Office to legalise magic mushrooms last year & I didn't get far with that. I didn't even get that much support from drugs users, though of course I'm grateful for the support I did get..

I think aiming to have the laws against cannabis lightened is realistic, mainly because of it's use in medicine & because of the dangers of these synthetics. I guess some Psychedelics might be in line for the same treatment in the future, but that's a long way off while cannabis itself remains so vigorously prohibited.
 
Im a bit confused as to what it is? Are they those cannabinoid jobs that MDB and FG smoke and mixed to a crazy level or something else entirely??(

I think thats what it is, the main danger is how extremely potent the blends can be, just a 'tiny pinch' in a roll up or bong had me in a very uncomfortable headpace for ~8 hours afterwards. And believe it or not, i consider myself relatively experienced and carefull. I dread to think of some fresh faced kid making a huge spliff or massive bong rip out of this stuff, not having a clue what's in store.

FG goes through the stuff much more heavily and quikcer than me, i cant really see how it could be instantly fatal, (instant drug induced psychosis = yes, but instant death:?) unless its triggering off underlying heart conditions or something. I can very easily imagine these things being highly carcogenic. But obviously thats a long slow death, no immdeiate kills. The lack of detailed info in the article makes me think "bullshit"

I make my own blends now, using the pure powders and mixing them with smokeable herbs, this has a number of advantages, enormous cost savings, a 50g batch will last me many months, plus i know exactly how strong it is. I use just around 1g of powder mixed into the herbs with acetone, the acetone is just so the powrder can be sprayed or 'misted' onto the herbs more thoroghly than trying to mix in 1g of powder without any liquids, would be very difficult to get an even strngthed mix without it. Ther would be some mad "hotspots" and other parts that would be completely innert. Acetone is used because it evaportes off once it has helped the powders mix in and helped the herbs soak up the powders.
 
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I don't see how that opens the door for decriminalising cocaine, or LSD for that matter.
Perhaps not, but it does at least get us to a place where there is a drug that was once banned, which is now legal again. Which is a huge step. It may not open the door for other things but I think it does at least get us into the hallway where those other doors are.
I don't necessarily think that legalising cannabis will quickly lead to other drugs (cocaine or LSD, to go with your example) being legalised. But I find it almost inconceivable that cocaine or LSD would ever be legalised without cannabis coming first.
 
Oh, it's a step in the right direction alright. It's just hard to envisage the UN's major players using it as an example of model drug policy and making bold decisions.

Meanwhile, the dodgy analogues will continue to be synthed, and the misery caused by drug gangs and cartels will continue to increase.
 
i cant really see how it could be instantly fatal, (instant drug induced psychosis = yes, but instant death:?) unless its triggering off underlying heart conditions or something. I can very easily imagine these things being highly carcogenic. But obviously thats a long slow death, no immdeiate kills. The lack of detailed info in the article makes me think "bullshit"

The actual mechanisms of fatality are little understood as yet. But seizures, stroke or other cerebral event, cardiac failure & general, all-round organ failure can lead to a pretty rapid demise.
 
The actual mechanisms of fatality are little understood as yet. But seizures, stroke or other cerebral event, cardiac failure & general, all-round organ failure can lead to a pretty rapid demise.

True, to establish the cause of death, perhaps now more than ever, we need some proper good quality post-mortems done on these poor people that have died, and for that information to be openly published. At least we can then undertsand better what is causing the deaths, it seems like it must be killing the people who had some uknown biological/genetic vulnerabilties or weaknesses; thousands of people are smoking these blends on aregular basis, and only a very small proportion of people are being killed by them. My local headhsop has stopped selling Kratom, as that was linked to the death of a local man, and it was featured in the Media, and the headshop doesnt want the negative attention. AFAIK Kratom is a relatively safe substance, especially when taken in moderation and without combing it with other things, but even apparently benign substances can be fatal.
 
...Even within the UN, there are calls for a policy change, specifically from countries like Columbia and Guatemala...

Don't forget good old Mujica's proposed cannabis law in Uruguay:

People will be allowed to buy up to 40 grams (1.4 oz) of cannabis from the Uruguayan government each month. Users have to be 18 or older and be registered in a national database to track their consumption. Cultivators are allowed to grow up to 6 crops at their homes each year and shall not surpass 480 grams (17 oz). Registered smoking clubs will be allowed to grow 99 plants annually. Buying cannabis will be prohibited to foreigners and it will be illegal to move it across international borders.

I read the price would be set at $1 a gram. Sounds like there's some issues getting the law passed and it's been postponed till 2015 (and it's not all that popular), so i'm not holding my breath yet. Mujica's cool though: gives his presidential wages away and insists on living in a tiny house/shack.
 
True, to establish the cause of death, perhaps now more than ever, we need some proper good quality post-mortems done on these poor people that have died, and for that information to be openly published. At least we can then undertsand better what is causing the deaths, it seems like it must be killing the people who had some uknown biological/genetic vulnerabilties or weaknesses; thousands of people are smoking these blends on aregular basis, and only a very small proportion of people are being killed by them. My local headhsop has stopped selling Kratom, as that was linked to the death of a local man, and it was featured in the Media, and the headshop doesnt want the negative attention. AFAIK Kratom is a relatively safe substance, especially when taken in moderation and without combing it with other things, but even apparently benign substances can be fatal.

I'm afraid I disagree with you quite fundamentally here Buddy. I am quite sure that very many people who are dying from using synthetic cannabinoids are being killed by overdoses of, or unexpected combinations of chemicals. My money is on the huge dosage variation (hot spots!) which you might be going to some pains to avoid, but many actual vendors & Legal Highs manufacturers are clearly not. I do not believe for a moment that the only fatalities are from random allergic reactions, weak hearts or a weak cerebral vascular system.

I also disagree that small numbers of synthetic cannabis users are falling foul of these drugs. I believe there is actually a rather worryingly large percentage of adverse reactions in synthetics users & given that you clearly are one, I wonder if you're not trying to convince yourself of this rather than me or anyone else.

If the cost of a cannabis habit is too much to bear, & the only reason you smoke these chemicals is to save money, I might seriously reconsider it. The huge number of hospital admissions, general harms & actual fatalities associated with acute intoxication hardly relieve me as to the long-term safety profile of synthetic cannabinoids.

Do take care mate! <3
 
Be nice if they could legalise herb, I personally expect the costs to halve at the very least almost over-night, come that day!
 
Its not just costs for me, its ease of availibilty. Although the costs are incredibly cheap, in the second generation ban give-away sales the vendors were virtually giving away 25g bags of those powders they still had large stocks of. I cant resist a bargain, but i acknowledge that its a very short trem view to take. Those powders will probably last me the rest of my life (as long or short as that may be) but if i want it to be longer i should probably ditch those fucking noids. I feel certain they are highly toxic in as yet unknown ways.

If i had easy access to proper natural weed or hashish then i would definately opt for those instead of the cannabinoids. The noids definately seem capable of having devastating effects on people with mental health issues, apart from the reported hospital admissions and deaths, and because they are quite new, it will be some time before anything is known about the long terms effects of these things. I certainly dont expect it to be good news once these studies have finally been done.

Along with many other things, its something i should be looking to quit, they really bring very little benfit, i only use tiny amounts, i jsut have a few puffs last thing at night, some nights, to help send me to sleep. Id almost certainly be better off with a dash of spirits of some sort.
 
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