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The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

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Some Arabs claim white. Persians do as well. But, in certain strict genetic testing they wouldn't come back as "European", unless they had that mix.

And Romani would turn up some South Asian markers most definitely.
 
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Aaaaand the story changes again - now we're talking "European" and not "white". You really are an intellectually lightweight gimp.

Please define the "certain strict genetic testing" - if it is so certain and specific you should have no trouble referencing it, right? 8)
 
What 23 said:
Honestly, coming from a guy who doesn't even use the proper 'your'...

It's funny how you all put this guise on of defending peoples yet you resort to call me things like cunt, a term that could be seen as disrespectful to women, in that its a woman's body part, and its used as it is, and also a midget, as if that is a bad thing. What if a midget reads this forum?

Gone over my head? Maybe I don't have the faith in humanity that we can find a way to support 40 billion or more of us on this planet, right away. Heck maybe I don't want that many, at this rate. Honestly I'm trying to find a way to stop contributing to this thread, in this manner. I'm torched for doing so yet you continue to try to roast me when I stop.

I'm a 'racist' (or, racialist). I want a white majority, in white Europe, and maybe even America (The States, Canada...), and Australia, but I'm a little more liberal about those. I have my reasons for wanting it. They are conservative, and more out of reservation than any kind of hate for the other. I don't hate the other. I don't want to see my race blended away with them (oh, but YOU do like I DID as a child). Heck, perhaps some, but not others.

Not that I really believe in the Bible (not that I don't), but didn't it say something about a time when we were all one people, with one language, and one speech? God got pissed off and scattered everyone. I like things separate, at least to degrees.
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I never claimed to be great at grammar i'll give ya that one.

Separating races and giving everyone (or atleast state lackeys) their own "homeland" in other words? If that what you mean by "racialist"? I believe the South African Apartheid government tried this experiment once didn't they? Didn't work out so great for them now did it?
 
Terms... Honestly, its hard to perfectly define this. White? Its a good part identity, but a black person will never pass as 'white'. European is usually white, the way they are identified in these tests. I may be missing some, but groups like Romani are not technically white, even if they have been in Europe for a time. Jews, Ashkenazi Jews are a unique European group, and I consider them Whites, as do many. But Nazis and Neo-Nazis don't identify them with us, as they are mixed somewhat 'more' (but none of us are truly black or white).

I know some of the most modern ideas say race doesn't exist. That its a social construct. I just think its being deconstructed in that its harder to grasp. Its hard to quantify exactly.

I know its not just 'black and white'... Here are my results according to an 'ancient origins' test:

M078356_DDB08C.gif


There are a lot of tests I've ran my data through on gedmatch.com. This is one. Genetic testing for ancestry isn't an exact science, because we are very similar.

As for 'certain tests', there are different ones. The first one I did was by 23andme, where I got my raw data. According to their test, I'm 98-99% broadly European... Mostly north European. They try to focus on recent ancestry, of around 500 years ago where your ancestors came from, before the age of recent intercontinental travel. My test there could place me as 'white', but with possibly some small amount (.2% ) of East Asian/Native American, which could be noise, or could be due to ancestors mixing with each other while chasing around mammoths long before, or maybe something else, I don't know.

I know that 'purity' is impossible. Or it seems that way.
 
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The term white literally means nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if you start going on about the lost tribes of Israel or something soon cause it makes as much sense.
 
I do find it interesting that ancient Sumerian Gods, depictions of them often have blue eyes. Blue eyes are found on God statues all around. Though not necessarily unique to Europeans, they are more common among them, at least now. Abraham is said to have been illustrious, and that was possibly a reference to his skin. Noah was either an albino (likely) or white skinned. I go for albino, but I don't know. Enough weird shit has happened to me that I wouldn't be surprised if God as that God exists and some things aren't what they seem.

Anyways, here I am rambling. And way off topic.

I don't think South Africa is a good example. Whites colonized there. Its not their home territory.
 
I do think that the harsh police action is a result of our right to bear arms. I'm willing to put up with it to keep that right.
 
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What 23, there's something very important you need to understand: there is no need for policies of segregation. Anywhere. The problem of people with different values living off the same resource pools (and therefore utilizing them in ways that vex each other's sensibilities) solves itself naturally. The group with the most control over or access to the resource(s) in question lay down an ultimatum: do things our way or fuck off. And their less fortunate rivals comply, in various fragmented ways usually.

Policies of segregation are almost always wishful thinking born of a deep-seated fear of the other that has not been breached by enough meaningful contact with the feared "other" to spark the realization that they're people just like me.

Just to lay my cards on the table, the first job I worked in when I moved back to the US after years abroad was a nurse aide. I was a white male and most of my colleagues were black women in all 3 jobs I worked. My last nurse aide job was at a hospital in an inner city, where most of my patients were black too. I felt like a foreigner for a long time after I moved back, even though I knew the culture and grew up in it. Maybe that made it easy to get a new perspective on the issue of race in the US, but one thing struck me throughout these first years back: white and black Americans are definitely one culture and one nation, not two.

I grew up in a pretty homogeneously white small town, and didn't have much meaningful contact with many black people growing up. I bought into and absorbed a gut fear of black guys from the media and the long shadow of history, enshrined by the poorly educated and not too traveled. Being someone who stuck out racially for a few years myself, and then having some great, and close, working relationships with people of all sorts of ethnic roots is really what undid that for me. I recommend it to anyone.
 
What 23 said:
Arab slavers also castrated males and sold women into sexual slavery (though they were used by white men as well).

This all deserves more look than I've given it but I wouldn't be surprised if Arabs weren't of influence or having some involvement in the transatlantic slave trade.
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True.

This did not happen to any of my ancestors; but it's pretty common knowledge or at least it was for myself and other Italian/Italian-American friends I know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam_in_southern_Italy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

Just wondering where did you take that Ancient origins test? Was it a DNA test? I'm asking since I have taken some DNA tests, and I am into genetics and genealogy.
 
MDAO, I have worked with multiple races of people as well, especially recently, and have formed relationships with these people. The interactions weren't really any more negative than with whites, for the most part. Dealing with black drug dealers on the other hand has been different for the most part. And as well, I guess I do notice a difference, in for instance when I worked in service, that blacks really dont tip well, in general, and oerhsos that led to resentment, but I can say that it might be and probably mosy likely is more to do with some vibration from where they have come from in society... Not just current socioeconomic status but what has carried on.

I get that we are a blended culture, and quite honestly, I feel a divide in myself when I wish for segregation. Since I have, I find myself at best, in conflict, and seemingly rejecting a part of myself. I don't see how some of the strict whites only people do it, honestly. What music do they listen to? Even 'white' music has roots in kinds of musics that were largely influenced by people who are black, for instance, and in times I've felt the certain split that I feel sometimes, I'm unable to enjoy things like I did. I'm in a fight with things. I go through times when I agree in ways, and those when I don't, with many of those I speak with here.

As for one culture basically forcing another to assimilate, this is what I worry about with multiculturalism. I am not threatened by people from Latin America moving into the States, because largely, I consider our cultures similar. They have a strong similarity. Perhaps its the same religion... Even though it was imposed upon them. They were colonized by people culturally similar to me, in the ways that matter. But one of the reasons I fear for a place like Britain, culturally, is that they are a declining population- they aren't having many children, and those of alien cultures, Islamic cultures, are having more children. In this case, at some point they may be the dominant or most plentiful people, and their interests might overshadow naturals.

Part of it is racial. Maybe its attaching my culture to my race.
 
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Priest, I first took it through 23andme. I wasn't fully satisfied with the results from there, though. It brought me more questions. They give you access to your raw data which you can download, and there are multiple other sites with programs you can run that data through.

Other tests I've done through gedmatch.com also accept data from AncestryDNA- ancestry.com's test, and Family Tree DNA.
 
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Sometimes, a lot of times I'd agree. But there are probably a few areas I'd kick your arse at.

It was a mistake, and I have to admit its hard to fight against a majority/certain consensus, so I might make hastely assumptions, which, yea, is stupid.
 
The word "race" just comes from the Latin word for "roots", and that's really all it is. "Racism", then, is just judging the merits of an individual person on the basis of their ancestral roots. When a group of people define themselves as a race, what they're saying is that they all descend from people who share a common experience of a certain set of historical events. These seminal historical events are arbitrarily defined, remembered in a one-sided (if not largely fictitious) way, and cherished for reasons that have to do with the biases and interests of the prevailing power structure within that racial group. This is the logical bridge between race existing at the level of human society, but not at the level of human physiology -- it's an emergent property, which emerges out of people's desire to connect with the past, alongside others connecting with a similar past.

I think it's natural, especially when we're feeling threatened or vulnerable, to seek refuge in the company of people who remind us of ourselves in significant ways. This reminds us that we don't endure the pain of life alone, and that there are many others who even relate to the specific ways we find life painful. That's easy and natural. But living full time in a cocoon of people more like you than not will often translate into opportunities missed to cultivate the broader and deeper compassion which comes from opening your heart to people who don't remind you of yourself, and discovering just how similar you are with them on the deepest levels. This is a lot more risky than flocking together with birds of a feather. But safety is a fleeting illusion; we're all bound to suffer and die, and all empires will someday fall.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
What 23, there's something very important you need to understand: there is no need for policies of segregation. Anywhere. The problem of people with different values living off the same resource pools (and therefore utilizing them in ways that vex each other's sensibilities) solves itself naturally. The group with the most control over or access to the resource(s) in question lay down an ultimatum: do things our way or fuck off. And their less fortunate rivals comply, in various fragmented ways usually.

Policies of segregation are almost always wishful thinking born of a deep-seated fear of the other that has not been breached by enough meaningful contact with the feared "other" to spark the realization that they're people just like me.

Just to lay my cards on the table, the first job I worked in when I moved back to the US after years abroad was a nurse aide. I was a white male and most of my colleagues were black women in all 3 jobs I worked. My last nurse aide job was at a hospital in an inner city, where most of my patients were black too. I felt like a foreigner for a long time after I moved back, even though I knew the culture and grew up in it. Maybe that made it easy to get a new perspective on the issue of race in the US, but one thing struck me throughout these first years back: white and black Americans are definitely one culture and one nation, not two.

I grew up in a pretty homogeneously white small town, and didn't have much meaningful contact with many black people growing up. I bought into and absorbed a gut fear of black guys from the media and the long shadow of history, enshrined by the poorly educated and not too traveled. Being someone who stuck out racially for a few years myself, and then having some great, and close, working relationships with people of all sorts of ethnic roots is really what undid that for me. I recommend it to anyone.
Click to expand...

I had much the same experience the first time i moved to Toronto. For the first time at the job i worked at, the neighborhood i lived in and the house i lived in (people i was staying with where Jamaican) i was in the very small minority and for a few weeks i felt like the odd one out walking down the road lol. There was absolutely no difference in how that family i knew treated me and the way that they treated their own so i don't see why people think just because we don't all have the same color skin that we automatically have to be so different as to separate each other. It's economic class not skin color that is the real divide.
 
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