• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe

Is it foolish to call God, “Father”?

Read it the wrong way if you like. It still has God admitting to being moved to do evil.

You are fixated on exonerating God while I just read what is said and judge that. You show how Christian morality has been corrupted.

Read what is written and not what you would like to be written.

Regards
DL

I read it like a Christian would thank you very much.

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."

My sentence came before yours did! Let us examine how you read the quote. If you are so inclined to be God you must also choose to be the devil. Your emphasis on "though YOU incited me against him to ruin him without any reason" makes your reduction of God an evil and unjust God. Once you have done that you reject God (or Agape for that matter). Therefore and along with the Alan Watts video you posted (stating that we are all Gods) YOU chose to read it wrong. My dear friend. God is Just, this is the Christian way of proving it.
 
O really?

Mark 12:
28 Then one of the scribes came... and asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”

29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

32 So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. 33 And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

34 Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”


There's a huge difference between having the Spirit of God within you and being God. God is all powerful, all knowing, etc. Are you all powerful? Do you know everything? Your definition of "God" is skewed.

Just because you have chosen to believe B.S. from the mouths of men does not mean we all have to.

My quotes put yours to shame. Let's not do a thumping contest as we both know that we can make your book of myths say almost anything.


Matthew6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thywhole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: andmy Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode withhim.

Luke 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of Godis within you.

Romans8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to theimage of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

If Jesus is God, and your myths say he is, then as a brethren of Jesus I can say that I am a God.

If you are not a brethren to Jesus then you are not ready or worthy.

Step up to your own responsibilities for sin and stop trying to profit form God having his son needlessly murdered for your pathetic soul.

Regards
DL
 
I read it like a Christian would thank you very much.



My sentence came before yours did! Let us examine how you read the quote. If you are so inclined to be God you must also choose to be the devil. Your emphasis on "though YOU incited me against him to ruin him without any reason" makes your reduction of God an evil and unjust God. Once you have done that you reject God (or Agape for that matter). Therefore and along with the Alan Watts video you posted (stating that we are all Gods) YOU chose to read it wrong. My dear friend. God is Just, this is the Christian way of proving it.

Is God a just judge?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but wasrevealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement andshows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt oralter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of theguilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish theinnocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe orsacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote Godin as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL
 
Again this is the corruption of the mind conceiving God. You've gone too far Gnostic dial it back. You're reading it wrong. First off, you don't ask the question is God Just. You just say "yes". If God is the Phenomena of events in the Totality of the universe then this can be the only answer. If you put yourself behind the mind of the God who is the Phenomena of [...] then you're going to end up wrong, left with an agitated reading of God's wrath. Which means YOU are God's wrath. It is far better to be the humble subject. For instance merely by asking the question is God Just you've become a Fascist. Basically implying you can right the wrongs of all Phenomena's because the Bible is a poorly written book.
 
Again this is the corruption of the mind conceiving God. You've gone too far Gnostic dial it back. You're reading it wrong. First off, you don't ask the question is God Just. You just say "yes". If God is the Phenomena of events in the Totality of the universe then this can be the only answer. If you put yourself behind the mind of the God who is the Phenomena of [...] then you're going to end up wrong, left with an agitated reading of God's wrath. Which means YOU are God's wrath. It is far better to be the humble subject. For instance merely by asking the question is God Just you've become a Fascist. Basically implying you can right the wrongs of all Phenomena's because the Bible is a poorly written book.

Who is going too far?

Regards
DL
 
See, you can't just ask a rhetorical question unless it only answers yourself. Which...

On the other hand if you do have a question on how what I said was reaching, I'd be more than glad to explain.
 
I figured I'd explain more anyway.


There is a Hitchen's book called "God is not Great", which I think he should have just called it "Life is not Great". This is how we should think of God. The Totality of Phenomena in the universe for which we cannot fathom nor understand its Order. Fascism would sound a lot like Hitchen's in fact.

“we would be living under an unalterable celestial dictatorship that could read our thoughts while we were asleep and convict us of thought crime and pursue us after we are dead, and in the name of which priesthoods and other oligarchies and hierarchies would be set up to enforce God’s law.” Essentially, we’d be living in a supernatural Orwellian world."

He is precisely correct in one aspect. 'We hire priesthoods and other oligarchies and hierarchies [...] to set up and enforce God's law'. Thankfully for Hitchen's we (Christians) are not "unalterable". The celestial dictatorship is a very dark reading into the lives of Man. It is as if all the tension and anxiety of being an Atheist is let loose here in these two sentences:

living under an unalterable celestial dictatorship that could read our thoughts while we were asleep and convict us of thought crime and pursue us after we are dead

Here you can read the anxiety of living with your own thoughts! While he brings up a good point on how Man has altered the celestial dictatorship through time to be born into a Republic (Rather than staying a monarchy). The anxiety here is simply psychological. Why would Hitchen's say he feels like he lives in a Celestial Dictatorship? Or would live in one IF he 'believed' in a religion? It's a rational Atheistic response to religion.

Essentially, we’d be living in a supernatural Orwellian world

And here we can read into his tension about God being the Ordered Universe as such. It's strange that the anxiety he gets from his internalization of God manifests outward as a tension against how society (our Republic) is progressing.

This is why I've always said Hitchen's was a good Christian. Just dark enough to let the light shine through. However we should always be careful how our anxieties and tensions of the Ordered Universe can be preyed upon by ANY form of power even the rationalistic Republic. For it wasn't too long ago that we were ready to send the Jews straight to the Abyss because Germany was unhappy with the Ordered Universe, he had attempted to overthrow the 'celestial dictatorship'.
 
Last edited:
See, you can't just ask a rhetorical question unless it only answers yourself. Which...

On the other hand if you do have a question on how what I said was reaching, I'd be more than glad to explain.

Go ahead. But recognize that when thinking of any issue, it is best to take it to both extremes to check that situation. Engineers do that all the time to check their logic trails.

Regards
DL
 
I figured I'd explain more anyway.


There is a Hitchen's book called "God is not Great", which I think he should have just called it "Life is not Great". This is how we should think of God. The Totality of Phenomena in the universe for which we cannot fathom nor understand its Order. Fascism would sound a lot like Hitchen's in fact.



He is precisely correct in one aspect. 'We hire priesthoods and other oligarchies and hierarchies [...] to set up and enforce God's law'. Thankfully for Hitchen's we (Christians) are not "unalterable". The celestial dictatorship is a very dark reading into the lives of Man. It is as if all the tension and anxiety of being an Atheist is let loose here in these two sentences:



Here you can read the anxiety of living with your own thoughts! While he brings up a good point on how Man has altered the celestial dictatorship through time to be born into a Republic (Rather than staying a monarchy). The anxiety here is simply psychological. Why would Hitchen's say he feels like he lives in a Celestial Dictatorship? Or would live in one IF he 'believed' in a religion? It's a rational Atheistic response to religion.



And here we can read into his tension about God being the Ordered Universe as such. It's strange that the anxiety he gets from his internalization of God manifests outward as a tension against how society (our Republic) is progressing.

This is why I've always said Hitchen's was a good Christian. Just dark enough to let the light shine through. However we should always be careful how our anxieties and tensions of the Ordered Universe can be preyed upon by ANY form of power even the rationalistic Republic. For it wasn't too long ago that we were ready to send the Jews straight to the Abyss because Germany was unhappy with the Ordered Universe, he had attempted to overthrow the 'celestial dictatorship'.

Dictators dictate law and do not inquire or confer with his slave people.

Sounds like God to me. Or does he confer with man?

Regards
DL
 
Psychologically you are thinking of God as someone you are able to judge. This is NEVER the case.

On the other hand, does God confer with man? Is Man not moved by His Word, even if it is centuries silent? Does the Word not decompress into a myriad of interpretations including the American Deist version? Did the Word motivate Martin Luther King? Is the Word itself a powerful tool of Rhetoric? If it is a tool of rhetoric then it means to convey poetry and beauty amidst chaos. To be so overwhelmed with chaos and darkness only for the language to lend itself back to Man as a motivator is quite impressive. However, I feel you must read it carefully, or fall prey to its Celestial Dictatorship. If you try to judge God (who is an intangible Order) then you only end in blind wrath.

The thing with Hitler was to illustrate "blind wrath". A man who set out to take on the Totality. When he embarked the first thing he employed was religion! So I am saying religion acts as a psychological phenomena.
 
Last edited:
Just because you have chosen to believe B.S. from the mouths of men does not mean we all have to.

My quotes put yours to shame. Let's not do a thumping contest as we both know that we can make your book of myths say almost anything.


Matthew6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thywhole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: andmy Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode withhim.

Luke 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of Godis within you.

Romans8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to theimage of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

If Jesus is God, and your myths say he is, then as a brethren of Jesus I can say that I am a God.

If you are not a brethren to Jesus then you are not ready or worthy.

Step up to your own responsibilities for sin and stop trying to profit form God having his son needlessly murdered for your pathetic soul.

Regards
DL

You contradict yourself. You say the bible is a myth then on multiple threads use bible verses as true sayings to prove your point and further your beliefs. This discussion is pointless the way you look at it. You're better off attempting to disprove that the bible isn't the inspired word of God, and trying to discredit the thousands of prophecies, than picking and choosing which parts you like. Were the 40 authors that wrote it conspiring liars?

It is unlike any other religious book, actually nearly 70 writings in one. Even though it was written over a period of ~2000 years, by 40 various authors, who wrote in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents, it still maintains a consistent message and unity that can't be reasoned by natural explanation. From simple fishermen and shepherds, to military generals and kings, all penning portions of scripture. Each with different purposes for writing, from recording history, to giving spiritual and moral instruction, or proclaiming judgement. They composed their works anywhere from prisons, the wilderness, battlefields, places of exile, to majestic palaces and temples; writing history, laws, songs, prophecies, instructions, and more. All in this process they showed their personal emotions, expressing everything from anger, frustration, joy, to pure love. From Genesis to Revelation, man's continuous rebellion and rejection of God is shown. Nevertheless, our merciful God was and is there to forgive, provide, and extend his love and grace to people who turned their backs on him.

The bible is the most unique and profound piece of literature in history. The depth contained in it, its grand demonstration, its continual meaning and unity can only be explained by supernatural and divine inspiration. There are mystical mysteries surrounding all of it. Did you know even the genealogy from Adam to Jesus has prophetic messages attached to the names in chronological order? Man alone couldn't have put together something of this scale and magnitude.

From your religions website you linked it seems your religions beliefs were formed by one man, in his one lifetime, with no fulfilled prophecies, how do you know it isn't bs? "The Song of God, as written by Azrael Ondi-Ahman, contains the true thoughts and feelings of our Heavenly Parents, and these scriptures are the cornerstone of our faith."

You're going to put the fate of your eternal soul and faith based on that one man being inspired by God's truth? Really?

When you compare that to the immensity of the bible, there's no comparison, sorry, you won't find anything else that compares to it. The worlds second largest religion, Islam, and their holy book the qur'an can't even compare to the bible. It was only spoken by one person, in one lifetime, and it doesn't contain any fulfilled prophecies except Muhammad's self-fulfilled prophecy to return to Mecca.
I'm not seeking a religion. I'm seeking to foster my relationship with Christ. Christianity isn't so much a religion as it is a relationship.

Lastly, stepping up to your own responsibilities for sin is confessing them and repenting (turning away) from them. Renewal of the mind from the created desires of society to the desire of the Creator.
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may discern the good, acceptable and perfect will of God." Rom 12:2
How can I try to profit from a gift? A gift that is sufficient and doesn't need anything added to it.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23
"He [God] said unto me , 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'" 2 Corinth 12:9

I pray that God will open up your mind and heart to his revelations and that you would accept you have fallen short of perfect and be humble enough to acknowledge you need a savior. Love & Peace. <3
 
Psychologically you are thinking of God as someone you are able to judge. This is NEVER the case.

On the other hand, does God confer with man? Is Man not moved by His Word, even if it is centuries silent? Does the Word not decompress into a myriad of interpretations including the American Deist version? Did the Word motivate Martin Luther King? Is the Word itself a powerful tool of Rhetoric? If it is a tool of rhetoric then it means to convey poetry and beauty amidst chaos. To be so overwhelmed with chaos and darkness only for the language to lend itself back to Man as a motivator is quite impressive. However, I feel you must read it carefully, or fall prey to its Celestial Dictatorship. If you try to judge God (who is an intangible Order) then you only end in blind wrath.

The thing with Hitler was to illustrate "blind wrath". A man who set out to take on the Totality. When he embarked the first thing he employed was religion! So I am saying religion acts as a psychological phenomena.

Strange that you have judged a God to be something, ---- "If you try to judge God (who is an intangible Order), --- while telling me I should not or cannot judge God.


What makes you better than I in terms of being able to judge God?

Is reciprocity not fair play where you come from?

Regards
DL
 
You contradict yourself. You say the bible is a myth then on multiple threads use bible verses as true sayings to prove your point and further your beliefs. This discussion is pointless the way you look at it. You're better off attempting to disprove that the bible isn't the inspired word of God, and trying to discredit the thousands of prophecies, than picking and choosing which parts you like. Were the 40 authors that wrote it conspiring liars?

It is unlike any other religious book, actually nearly 70 writings in one. Even though it was written over a period of ~2000 years, by 40 various authors, who wrote in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents, it still maintains a consistent message and unity that can't be reasoned by natural explanation. From simple fishermen and shepherds, to military generals and kings, all penning portions of scripture. Each with different purposes for writing, from recording history, to giving spiritual and moral instruction, or proclaiming judgement. They composed their works anywhere from prisons, the wilderness, battlefields, places of exile, to majestic palaces and temples; writing history, laws, songs, prophecies, instructions, and more. All in this process they showed their personal emotions, expressing everything from anger, frustration, joy, to pure love. From Genesis to Revelation, man's continuous rebellion and rejection of God is shown. Nevertheless, our merciful God was and is there to forgive, provide, and extend his love and grace to people who turned their backs on him.

The bible is the most unique and profound piece of literature in history. The depth contained in it, its grand demonstration, its continual meaning and unity can only be explained by supernatural and divine inspiration. There are mystical mysteries surrounding all of it. Did you know even the genealogy from Adam to Jesus has prophetic messages attached to the names in chronological order? Man alone couldn't have put together something of this scale and magnitude.

From your religions website you linked it seems your religions beliefs were formed by one man, in his one lifetime, with no fulfilled prophecies, how do you know it isn't bs? "The Song of God, as written by Azrael Ondi-Ahman, contains the true thoughts and feelings of our Heavenly Parents, and these scriptures are the cornerstone of our faith."

You're going to put the fate of your eternal soul and faith based on that one man being inspired by God's truth? Really?

When you compare that to the immensity of the bible, there's no comparison, sorry, you won't find anything else that compares to it. The worlds second largest religion, Islam, and their holy book the qur'an can't even compare to the bible. It was only spoken by one person, in one lifetime, and it doesn't contain any fulfilled prophecies except Muhammad's self-fulfilled prophecy to return to Mecca.
I'm not seeking a religion. I'm seeking to foster my relationship with Christ. Christianity isn't so much a religion as it is a relationship.

Lastly, stepping up to your own responsibilities for sin is confessing them and repenting (turning away) from them. Renewal of the mind from the created desires of society to the desire of the Creator.
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may discern the good, acceptable and perfect will of God." Rom 12:2
How can I try to profit from a gift? A gift that is sufficient and doesn't need anything added to it.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23
"He [God] said unto me , 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'" 2 Corinth 12:9

I pray that God will open up your mind and heart to his revelations and that you would accept you have fallen short of perfect and be humble enough to acknowledge you need a savior. Love & Peace.
 
Why would you or I need a savior?

What have you or I done to merit hell?

As to your immoral reliance on an innocent man taking your responsibilities instead of you stepping up to them.

How will you get yourselfinto heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionaryatonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh yourmemory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw

I am not an atheist but Satanand Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notionthat we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demandsuch a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it isimmoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. Youdo. Right?

Those with good morals willknow that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just toprove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticketto heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, youbecome his.

-----------------------------------

The other option inscriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slackconcerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering tous-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come torepentance.

Scriptures indicate that Godprefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot bethwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distortedChristian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, ---their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. Abribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insaneview of love, IMO.

Would you express your lovefor humanity or those you love by having your own child needlesslymurdered?

Or if convinced that asacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step upyourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL
 
Strange that you have judged a God to be something, ---- "If you try to judge God (who is an intangible Order), --- while telling me I should not or cannot judge God.
I'm afraid not. God lacks all definition. In fact I rather like the idea that the Jewish God cannot even be pronounced. Humans lack the ability to even utter His proper name. Also, I am an atheist. God to me is not a Being who exists in, intangible Order. Quite the opposite, He is the Order which lacks tangibility/definition.

What makes you better than I in terms of being able to judge God?
I cannot judge what I do not understand.
 
I'm afraid not. God lacks all definition. In fact I rather like the idea that the Jewish God cannot even be pronounced. Humans lack the ability to even utter His proper name. Also, I am an atheist. God to me is not a Being who exists in, intangible Order. Quite the opposite, He is the Order which lacks tangibility/definition.

We would have to redefine the word God then but as a perpetual seeker, all I can really define God as is the ideals in rules and laws that man should live by. These will be found in a man. Only man is fit to be his own God. Any other God for man, understandable or not, will never do. Man should look to himself internally as Gnosis demands to find those best rules and laws.
I cannot judge what I do not understand.

No one can but in this case, ignore the poor definition man has given God and God becomes understandable.

If the God or ideal of all other life is themselves, why does man think he has to kowtow to some alien God?

Regards
DL
 
God or the ideal of all other life is themselves? That sentence doesn't make sense so I can't answer your "why". However it is as simple as "I like this way of thinking".
 
God or the ideal of all other life is themselves? That sentence doesn't make sense so I can't answer your "why". However it is as simple as "I like this way of thinking".

Certainly it makes sense.

Who is the God or best ideal for an ant to emulate if not an ant?
Who is the God or best ideal for a lion to emulate if not a lion?
Who is the God or best ideal for a man to emulate if not a man?

The will of God has always been given by a man. God has never spoken.

Only man is fit to be man's God. There is no higher form of life as far as we can tell with any confidence.

Regards
DL
 
Ah.

No, man should never emulate God. Impossible. On the other hand, in Christianity the act of "De imitatione Christi" is the Christian Ideal. This is because God is no longer God. God has become Man, as a subject to the same constraints, through this He shows us Redemption. By being redeemed/reborn you become subject to* God.

*too
 
Ah.

No, man should never emulate God. Impossible. On the other hand, in Christianity the act of "De imitatione Christi" is the Christian Ideal. This is because God is no longer God. God has become Man, as a subject to the same constraints, through this He shows us Redemption. By being redeemed/reborn you become subject to* God.

*too

Which God?
Bible God, I agree.
God as an ideal, I disagree
Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is inheaven is perfect.

We are all subject to ideals. We cannot help ourselves.

Regards
DL
 
Top