The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

[What 23]

And he assaulted a man 10 minutes prior to his death.

 

[Bardeaux]

^Which the officer had no idea of when he started firing.

A police report made public Friday also revealed that the teen, Michael Brown, was suspected of stealing a box of cigars from a convenience store and assaulting a clerk minutes before the officer shot him to death.

Thomas Jackson, the police chief of Ferguson, Missouri, said later that the officer did not know Brown was a suspect in the robbery when he stopped Brown.

Again, assault is not punishable by death and police officers don't have the authority to execute citizens any more than you or I do. The media is attempting to justify the officer's actions, as per usual whenever something like this happens.

 

[Droppersneck]

Youthful age coupled with black skin should give you an immunity card with cops? Apparently the cop that shot him didnt even know about the robbery attempt but was trying to get him out of the middle of the street. I was just so hoping the officer was going to be one of the 8 non Caucasian officers on the police force though it still would not of mattered msm would have traced back through the family tree to find white relatives. I hate overbearing ignorance based policing and it is a large part of why I moved from TN, but to say any and all young black men should be held in a higher status b/c of the euphoria people that capitalize on this stuff get from exercising political correctness is irresponsible.
Wait till all the facts come out and let the DOJ do their job before you go out and join the candle lit vigils. I will say it sounds like that police force needs a little help with integration on their force.

 

[Bardeaux]

to say any and all young black men should be held in a higher status b/c (unintelligible)

Execute them all, amirite?

Forget about the right to trial and all of that constitutional nonsense.

 

[What 23]

^Which the officer had no idea of when he started firing.



Again, assault is not punishable by death and police officers don't have the authority to execute citizens any more than you or I do. The media is attempting to justify the officer's actions, as per usual whenever something like this happens.

I know the cop didn't know at first.

The reason I mention it is

1: it could corroborate the policeman's account

You just rob a store and assault a guy. A cop confronts you, even on an unrelated matter, 10 minutes later. You're probably not going to be totally cool and collected at that point.

 

[Bardeaux]

So?

A bullet to your leg tends to make you a little more passive. It might even cause you to surrender and throw your hands in the air. At this point, should you be arrested or should you be gunned down in the street?

 

[What 23]

You weren't there. Neither was I.

 

[Bardeaux]

Thats not an answer.

 

[Droppersneck]

Bardo I am unimpressed by your emotional response. Let the facts come out this kid was probably the apple of his parents eyes but that is usually the case. If he truly did shake down that little Indian store clerk I am doubting that bright eyed innocent skittles eating child you have constructed in your mind will hold up in the light. Cops use excessive force on people all the time regardless of color the only people that get passes are the notably wealthy. And they happen to typically be white IME. I say this as a white person person that has been roughed up at a police station.

 

[Droppersneck]

So?

A bullet to your leg tends to make you a little more passive. It might even cause you to surrender and throw your hands in the air. At this point, should you be arrested or should you be gunned down in the street?

lol wat? If you are going to shoot it is only b/c you feel your life is in danger and in that case you always shoot center mass to kill. Liberal logic 101: Just shoot em in the legs!

 

[Bardeaux]

Bardo I am unimpressed by your emotional response.

You need new material.

Let the facts come out this kid was probably the apple of his parents eyes but that is usually the case. If he truly did shake down that little Indian store clerk I am doubting that bright eyed innocent skittles eating child you have constructed in your mind will hold up in the light.

Don't be condescending. The dude clearly robbed the store, but this is entirely unconnected to his murder.

Cops use excessive force on people all the time regardless of color the only people that get passes are the notably wealthy.

Hmm, meanwhile in Kzoo, another gentleman is blocking traffic:



Let's play a game. Let's pretend what would happen if this was a young black guy holding an assault rifle swearing at the police. How does the video end?

A) The police gently talk him down
B) The police rush the man, and put him into custody
C) They open fire on him within 5 minutes of arriving

lol wat? If you are going to shoot it is only b/c you feel your life is in danger and in that case you always shoot center mass to kill. Liberal logic 101: Just shoot em in the legs!

The kid was shot while fleeing. This is when he surrendered, and was then shot multiple more times. I'm disappointed in your emotional response, bro. You didn't even throw a "libtard" in there. You're going soft.

 

[One Thousand Words]

The police here always shoot but rarely to kill. I think there are about 2 or 3 civilian casualties each year and probably 1-2 policemen.

This isn't call of duty, it is possible to police without guns believe it or not

 

[Droppersneck]

Bardo not trying to be condescending but you make it difficult. You do not think it is possible that somebody that just robbed a store could of done something that warranted lethal force? We will have to see when DOJ comes out with in their findings. If the kid was simply trying to run and the police officer just shot him this will be all you/your cohorts want it to be and more. They will be able to devote an entire nightly program on msnbc to it. I mean this happened with Treyvon Martin and it ended up being a puerto rican guy playing cop that stumbled upon an ass whooping and got off on technicalities in law meant to protect not warrant vigilante justice.

 

[Bardeaux]

You do not think it is possible that somebody that just robbed a store could of done something that warranted lethal force? We will have to see when DOJ comes out with in their findings. If the kid was simply trying to run and the police officer just shot him this will be all you/your cohorts want it to be and more.

Even further, if he assaulted the cop and was shot in the process, then fine. That's what's to be expected when you assault a cop. The issue is with shooting someone with their hands up saying "I'm unarmed, stop shooting me". You have to see how this is murder. This would be hard to get away with in Afghanistan or Iraq if it were brought to light.

I mean this happened with Treyvon Martin and it ended up being a puerto rican guy playing cop that stumbled upon an ass whooping and got off on technicalities in law meant to protect not warrant vigilante justice.

Which is pretty much what I was arguing in that thread. Same response though, "bleeding hearts this, liberals that."

 

[What 23]

Everybody who is familiar with you on here can probably guess why you choose to post those stats here in this thread. When you post things like that, you are attacking the victim and saying he somehow deserved it. The underlying socioeconomic factors that you allude to (in your case, I believe only as a smoke screen for your agenda) are a big deal and need to be resolved. Other problems are violence, corruption, and ethnic tension.

You also said in post #18 that you have never seen anybody carrying an "assault" weapon where you live in Indianapolis or wherever. The definition of "assault" weapon is kind of hazy, so I was wondering if you have seen people (not police or military) openly carrying any kind of firearm there. I would be really surprised if you say you haven't. I've seen people carrying weapons (pistols, rifles, and sport/"assault" style weapons) in other similar mid-western cities. Even here in the San Francisco area, an NRA chapter in one of the nearby suburbs (Hercules which is just across the bay) has meetings at the local Starbucks. Club members wear some kind of weapon there to those meetings.

The only person I have ever seen carrying a weapon in a manner that was remotely out of control, was a guy- black, entering an apartment I was in, ready to shoot someone. It was a sawed off shotgun he was carrying. He had heard that the guy who lived there, my neighbor, was in trouble. He busted in, adrenaline running. Nobody got hurt.

One other time, I guess, was at a bachelor party, when drunk people were firing weapons in the country, but they remained safe with them, but went "out of control" in the direction of the targets, having a good time. There was no aggression.

I had a boss that used to carry around a pistol, when I worked at a marina. He provided security for the place. He owned it. I had a coworker carry around a sidearm on a holster. We work with drugs, and are independent contractors. Another man carries around a pistol on a holster where I pick up drugs, for work. He has a business in the same building, and does his own security, and provides it for the other businesses.

I may have seen another man with a holstered sidearm. I admit they all make me a little on edge. It doesn't matter what race they are. If they have it under control, and manage themselves like gentlemen, I can't see myself being exceptionally more nervous around a black gentleman who has one holstered. If they're walking with an attitude, and are dressed like a thug? I might make sure there is something that I can get behind, around me. This also goes for a white guy that wants to walk around with an attitude, and wave it around, or something.

As for why I posted stats, I was asked to. I made claims, based on what I remembered reading, because I saw non-truth/imbalance in reporting here, and someone wanted me to provide a source for my claims.

Bardeaux- I imagine it's possible that if the guy was black and acted exactly like that white guy in the video, resting the gun on his shoulder, he wouldn't get treated much differently.

 

[spacejunk]

Saying "Fuck Corporate America" isn't going to solve America's economic problem (Which reflexively affects the justice system). "Fuck the war machine" --all you have to do is not sign up for the military and you've done your part according to your ethics, this is regardless of the propaganda that starts at childhood. So, I would say it has little effect.

"Fuck it all, go steal yourself some household appliances" This is the real trouble in our society, like the London riots, when public anxiety meets with 'movement'. What we should be scared of as civilians is that our first go-to is to steal material things. It is as if their motivations and tension is animated by materialistic hedonism instead of organized structure.

As for your last sentence the most ugly thing aside from the death of the innocent; is that when our society faces itself with it's own tension it reverts back to its hedonistic roots. With this and what happened in London, I am FAR more concerned about how our society deals with materialism as such.

I don't suppose the tongue-in-cheek comments really translate very well, as you've ignored the 'serious' parts of my post, and focused on the "fuck shit up, kids!" element.
If you think I say "fuck corporate america - go steal some shit you can't afford" is either serious or intended to have any real-world outcome, you're misjudging Internet forum polemics.
Don't you guys have "freedom of speech" enshrined in law with your constitution?
Perhaps a grasp on the basic use of irony to get a point across (albeit a cheap shot - no pun intended) should be encouraged as well?
I get the impression such an idea is a little sophisticated for some of the contributors to this debate.

Granted, this is no laughing matter - but if you fail to see how the mass proliferation of powerful firearms has contributed to the police response to this situation (in the initial killing of an unarmed man and the paramilitary response to unrest on the streets) - then what I'm saying is probably not going to make sense to you.

In the responses here, I find people's anger at property crimes (trespassing, petty theft - probably all covered by insurance anyway, no?) rather than a brutal murder by an officer of the law rather telling - and downright disturbing.

IMO your country's priorities are downright fucked if citizens are more concerned at a bit of looting than officers of the law gunning down an apparently unarmed, wounded man in the street.
"Hedonistic roots" - what would they be, exactly? The hedonism of the era of slavery?

If you are naive enough to think that the "war machine" can be negated by simply "not signi up for the military", I doubt you've ever considered the poverty that pushes so many Americans to join the armed forces because they cannot afford an education, eke out a living from minimum wage or whatever other indignities the US working class face on a daily basis.

And if you cannot see the connection between those military-issue equipped "law enforcement" officers and the "war machine", have a read of the rest of the thread - or just take a look at post #64 by Bardaeux.

I can see why my mockery of the gun lobby zealots and their ineffectual posturing may bother some folks here, but I make no apologies for this whatsoever.
No western country is immune to this sort of thing (not that it would rate a mention in the US mass media) but the response from authorities and armchair critics alike (particularly the argument that people somehow wait for something like this to happen so they can steal a new television or whatever) is ridiculous and ignorant.

Nothing to do with social inequity, institutionalised racism or injustice is it?

Of course not - just greed, right?
And materialism!
That's something middle class America knows nothing about whatsoever. Laughable, and patently dishonest.

 

[Droppersneck]

Yeah yeah yeah I weep for trayvon and infamy/karma will get Zimmerman in the end it always does. Oh yeah if he was asking for him to stop shooting then I say throw the book at the officer I am taking neither side till all the facts are out though. I am still lol'ing at those Huff post 'reporters' that got arrested for being morons and trying to be part of the media induced cause.

 

[What 23]

As far as the media goes, they were bloodsuckers for Trayvon's case. They even cut out a good part of the dialog between Zimmerman and dispatchers to make it sound as if Zimmerman basically said "he's black, so he's guilty of doing something bad", to create sensation.

The left will blame the media. The right will blame the media.

 

[Shrooms00087]

In the responses here, I find people's anger at property crimes (trespassing, petty theft - probably all covered by insurance anyway, no?) rather than a brutal murder by an officer of the law rather telling - and downright disturbing

This is going to sound nit-picky but the trial is not over. Everyone is innocent until the conclusion has been wrought. Anger is fine! But what stops a flame from burning a neighborhood? Organization, cool heads, blah, blah, blah.

Now let us address your anger about "petty theft". What these people took was not insured money or items, what they took was labor; frankly exploited labor. Stealing from exploited labor practically is burning the neighborhood down. Again, hedonism. You act as if property is insured it is okay to let your anger out. Did you think about the low wage workers that make most of the shit that got stolen? Do you think about the crippling American industry that came with outsourcing (exploiting) labor to produce those items cheaply to keep the American economy afloat....And they go and riot?

IMO your country's priorities are downright fucked if citizens are more concerned at a bit of looting than officers of the law gunning a man down in the street.
"Hedonistic roots" - what would they be, exactly? The hedonism of the era of slavery?

They would be what I just addressed above. Slavery has nothing to do with what I was talking about. The roots of Hedonism is unchecked Desire. Some poor kid got shot? Better go steal some NIKES? Seriously, get the fuck out of here. We need serious people addressing serious issues of justice, we do not need thievery with the luxury of knowing "it's insured by a higher power".

If you are naive enough to think that the "war machine" can be negated by simply "not signi up for the military", I doubt you've ever considered the poverty that pushes so many Americans to join the armed forces because they cannot afford an education, eke out a living from minimum wage or whatever other indignities the US working class face on a daily basis.

And if you cannot see the connection between those military-issue equipped "law enforcement" officers and the "war machine", have a read of the rest of the thread - or just take a look at post #64 by Bardaeux.

Listen you don't have to call me naive as if I don't know about socioeconomic pressures on recruiters and the benefits therein. However I choose not to call them victims. Few people risk their lives for an Idea and if they sign up for money as that Ideal then that is their choice. Just as it is yours to call them victims. I am a Marxist for Christ sake though, don't patronize me.

Nothing to do with social inequity, institutionalised racism or injustice is it?
Of course not - just greed, right? That's something middle class America knows nothing about whatsoever. Laughable, and patently dishonest.

Social inequity plays a part I never stated it did not. Quote me if I am wrong. Institutionalized racism is injustice, yes. But what is it you plan on doing? What is your go-to response? Defend the thieves and hide the activists. I am laughing, though it isn't laughable.

 

[rickolasnice]

The police here always shoot but rarely to kill. I think there are about 2 or 3 civilian casualties each year and probably 1-2 policemen.

This isn't call of duty, it is possible to police without guns believe it or not

Apparently police on the beat in a quiet town in Scotland have been authorised to carry guns.

Then there's the water cannons Bellend Boris has OK'd for London.

There are also "CCTV and Audio Officers" and "Environmental Enforcement" officers walking around in stab proof vest (I see them regularly around my area).. Their jobs are to look out for dodgy parking and to look out for people that don't pick up their dog's shit respectively.

The UK is a long, long way off from America but they're certainly following suit.

This thread needs some niceness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r38-yj8wqiw (Off topic)