Misc Feel extremely guilty and ashamed to see doc about getting on anti depressants

[Berdo tm1]

Tldr; i am a cretin. + last paragraph or two.

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I am pretty much paralyzed by shame and guilt at having to do such a thing, tho ive really exhausted the other options. I tried therapy and that trashes my self esteem even more, it makes me feel extremely patronized and only like placebo, and since i dont believe in it it has no hope of working for me. plus it is a grotesque waste of money imo for the amount of benefit i could get from it.

I did it for free for years when i was getting it in university (so its not like im writing it off without having tried it) and it was just stupid imo. You would just talk about the same stuff and all they did was go round in circles and get you to 'find the answers' Such a pathetic racket imo. Taking drugs produces a billion times greater shift in your perception at a molecule of the cost/effort.

I bought a ton of books last year on cbt and worked thru them but they didn't even touch my extreme pessimism either. Again it felt ridiculous to me that some stupid words in a book could help anything to any considerable degree- i did go thru the exercises for 3 weeks diligently and just got more and more annoyed at how stupid and arbitrary they were. At first cbt seemed more logical but once i read up more on cbt i realised thats also a crock of shit based on placebo, the stupid cognitive restructuring, what a joke. That is just some fantasy made up by the well intentioned dr beck but he got carried away in his own theories since there is no factual basis for it. Studies show that its the behavioural part that causes change and the cognitive part doesnt have any effect vs straight bahaviourism.

And thus i was led to pure behaviourism. Now this is right up my alley in terms of being scientifically based, however i came up against a brick wall again in that behaviourism is based on curing depression i suppose by just doing activities you enjoy. Well ive been in this pit for so long i dont enjoy anything any more or anything i would enjoy such as pussy or making money i cant get (those are the only tow things i could say i definitely enjoy sounds sad but its true- everything else in life seems a waste of time). I could try new things but the pessimism and fear of trying new things is so strong. I start to get intense anxiety now if i try anyhting that isnt relted to eitehr trying to get pussy or making money. Pathetic i know.

The only thing that helps with this extreme negative thinking is taking drugs but since i went totally sober over a year ago i feel extremely guilty about taking anything stronger than herbs, and stims are too strong and just send me into psychosis/deeper pits of malaise. Ive spent the past few months going thru each of the crappy weak ass herbs to no avail, just disappointing one time after the other each time getting more pessimistic.

Then I think that taking anti depressants i get even more guilty thinking that there are 'children starving in africa' and i am miserable with 'everything i have'. And i also feel even more guilty if i were to take anti depressants thinking that they would have been cruelly tested on animals. I could reluctantly see the justification if it was for some cancer fighting drug but for me being a miserable bastard it feels so gluttonous and unjustified that they would suffer for me being too much of a weak person to 'beat my depression naturally'.

And so I remain in this quagmire of inertia.

What are my options now considering my extreme narrow mindedness?

 

[Doldrugs]

You sound just like me, man. I know EXACTLY how you feel. For 26 years I was miserable, lonely, bored, anxious, guilty, and ashamed. Therapy was a waste, medication was a racket and a conspiracy, I wanted to stop being sad but I was paralyzed. I said or believed pretty much everything in your post at one time. But now I'm not depressed.

I came to think of my depression as aware and protective of itself. It ensures its existence by keeping you depressed. The fears and guilt of animal testing, the shame and unworthiness, and the inability to take any positive action is all part of your depression defending it's existence. I don't know if this metaphor is helpful to you, but it helped me separate my own self from the thoughts and feelings of my depression. You aren't your thoughts or your feelings. You can make your own decisions independent from what your brain and body want.

My advice is go to a doctor and start trying medication. It can be a long, horrible road but it's worth it. It took me a year to find something that worked and it was one of the worst years of my life. But now I'm so much happier. You will always find reasons why taking medication is wrong, you will want to stop taking meds, you will become discouraged. But stick with it, man. Depression clouds your judgment, and you're better off making decisions without its input. I'm not a different person now, I don't have different values, and I'm not a zombie. I'm exactly the same guy, just not depressed. I, too, wanted to "beat depression on my own" but that's insane, man! Depression is an ILLNESS. Imagine trying to beat cancer "on your own." Or AIDS. There's no shame in using the tools science has given us to solve this problem. Don't listen to the depression.

I'd also highly recommend meditation. It sounds hokey and I thought it was bullshit, but it really helped me. There is good science behind mindfulness. You can find free tracks to listen to online and if you want I can probably dig up my old CD and give you some pointers.

Besides that, go outside. Pick up a cheap hobby. Try to eat better. Drink more water. Try to exercise, even just a little. Believe me, I know how hard it is. I understand the total apathy. But there's hope.

Good luck.

 

[Miss Trust]

Doldrugs,


I know you meant this post for Berdo, but I just have to tell you something. I had decided to quit my anti-depressants because I am so discouraged with all I am trying to get off, like the perc, sleeping pills, etc........my thinking was just quit everything.

I have been suicidal for a while now and I have brain zaps driving me crazy from decreasing my percs I guess. My brain seems to be really messed up.

After reading this totally awesome reply you put here, I have decided, I am doing it all wrong (thanks to you). I am bipolar and I need my medication for that. I am going to the kitchen right after I post this and I am going to take it again. All of a sudden, I am crying a bit, because your post opened my eyes and made me realize I do have an illness like BiPolar and I need my meds just like a person with cancer or HBPressure or Diabetes.

Thanx so much Doldrugs, you don't know it, but it is possible that you have SAVED a life today.

If it is ok with you, I am going to take a screen shot of your post and put it in my bathroom and kitchen so I can read it all the time.

 

[Doldrugs]

Yes, of course it's ok! I can't express how happy reading your post makes me. The desire to stop taking your medication is insidious and it never really goes away. Stay strong.

 

[Berdo tm1]

Thansk for the reply. yes i know the analogy of 'its the depression playing tricks on you'

Ive tried meditaiton i despise it, tried it many many times, hate it more each time. makes me feel even more disconnected from the world. thanks for the suggesiton but ye i hate it with a passion.

part of the problem as it feels like such a big commitment to 'own up' and have to see the doctor, like coming out the closet as gay or something. not really the shame aspect but more that once i tell them my whole identity is that of a 'depressed person'. then agian i feel like shit even when i dont admit it so i doubt that makes much differnece lol just raitonalising.

I am wondering whether to try the trecherous self medication route since you dont have to mess with a middle man. i know its naughty but ive done my research and tianeptine seems like just the ticket. its prescribed already anyhow so its not like its some rogue research chemical, so jsut the same kind of shit youd get from a doc.

i dunno i guess i just have to keep trying things till something works at least i can give myself a little boost to say that im at least trying rather than just staying paralysed.

maybe ill develop a behavioural schedule to say i should try at least X amount of things per week in order to beat my depression. that sounds like a good idea. cos previously my efforts have been very lackadaisical and haphazard.

 

[Doldrugs]

I think the behavioral schedule is a great idea.

It can take a long time to find the right medication . The wrong medications will be terrible but judging all medications by the ones that are wrong for you is just not logical. Do not self medicate out of shame. Do not let shame push you into bad decisions. Going to the doctor for mental health reasons BLOWS. I can't disagree. But you should do it anyway. Don't let a completely irrational stigma stop you from making the healthiest choices. Again, I know how hard this is.

 

[TheLostBoys]

Don't be guilty because they hand out anti-depressants like candy now a days........

 

[Berdo tm1]

that is also what scares me trying and a medication making me worse, not to mention the fear that id be stuck on some junk 24/7 for who knows how long.

i prefer the idea of something to take acutely to blast me into aciton for a few days then stop before it fucks up my bosy chemistry maybe permanently. thats why tianeptine sounds good cos they say you cna get effects immediately and the half life is short so you could do quick cycles of productivity and then wait a while to let your beody return to baseline again.

stigma aside, i usualy live totaly substance free so i depsise the idea of being onsomething 24/7 with not even any certainty itll work.

amps are great for motivation were it not for the horrendous crashes, i jsut want to find something mild i could do quick blasts with and clena out after, perhaps modafinil.

 

[Doldrugs]

Believe me, I get it. But there is no magic bullet for depression. When you find the right medication (or some other solution) you'll realize how much you were hurting yourself by avoiding it. I think it's very important a professional guides the process. You literally cannot trust yourself when it comes to stopping or altering your own meds.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

depression meds suck and I'm sure antipsychotics and mood stabilizers are even worse. I'm with you, fuck the asshole psychiatrists and fuck shitty medication. going through years of trying meds to find one that works is not for me, I eagerly wanted to blow my brains out after half a year of that shit. Everytime a med fails it's just another reason to assume that I am fucked up beyond repair.

 

[TheLostBoys]

Like others have stated, the doctors treat their patients like guinea pigs with all the garbage they pump into them........by the time they find something that works, it could be 5 years later & they have already messed up your brain with the garbage trying to find something that works.

That's why I tell people find something yourself & stay far away from SSRI's & these quack doctors.

 

[Berdo tm1]

Yes indeed but both of you guys in the last 2 posts havent offered another solution? See ive had this opinion for years but ive also stayed in the same misery of depression which only seems to get worse year after year. Sicne my 30th birthday all ive been thinking aobut most days is that im slowly dying and im no longer young and i jsut think about how im going to die or how long till my parents die and what my responsiblities are going to be when they get ill and start to die (they are in good health btw now no particular reaosn for me to be thinking that othe than my morbid outlook). my usual thoughts thru the day. i figure my responsibilities will only increase in time and i can barely do day to day things atm so gotta sort it out now.

The self medicating rout does have its plusses since you are the master of your destiny, the main drawback is being limited and prevented from trying most of the meds actually made for depression, im not messing with fucking research chemicals to try and sort this problem again, made that mistake many times already and ended up having mental breakdowns crying to my mom. so ruled that idea out. Kratom sounds great in terms of long history of use and relatively harmless except for the beast of possible addiction looming on one's shoulder. every turn fraught with danger.

at least with the plight of anti dpressants you have plenty of company of others taking it and we all know misery loves company . whereas when i dabbled with rcs someitmes i would get a chilling feeling in my mind of what if i fucked my brian up beyond repair id have no1 to relate to and id just be ttoally fucked with nowhere to turn as id be only one of the very few foolish/desperate enough to take such untested substances.

 

[sekio]

Medication in some cases is truly throwing darts at a board in the dark. However if therapy alone, or other first line treatments for depression don't cut it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying any medication that might make you feel better. Some people do get messed up from SSRI therapy. There's no denying that. But depression is also a cause of psychological malaise. You have to pick the lesser of two evils here. SSRIs are prescribed because they do work in some cases. Not all, but some cases. And you don't know until you try.

There's lots of other drugs that are less.. impactful than SSRIs to try, too. I would avoid kratom or any other opioids.

Would you not take antibiotics to fight off a massive bacterial infection because some kids in Africa don't have access to them? I doubt it. If you can't cure your problems on your own, kfind a doctor who has favorable reviews dealing with depression, and go see them...

 

[Doldrugs]

I was lucky to find a doctor who was interested in all possible avenues of treatment rather than just being a drug peddler, as I was highly skeptical of the pharmaceutical industry (and still am). Given my own past and present feelings, I'm not surprised by the SSRI hate. But honestly, what is so blanket bad about this class of drug? Sure, if it's the wrong drug for you it's not good to take. But find the right drug, SSRI or not, and it will be extremely helpful. I'm a very difficult case, extremely sensitive to side effects and not particularly sensitive to the intended therapeutic effects. Drugs tend to work as badly as possible in my system, who knows why. But I was able to find something that worked.

I think it's just bad HR to dissuade someone from taking any SSRI. No one will force you to keep taking it if it sucks. There's no harm in trying.

 

[Mycophile]

EVERY drug has bad side effects, and for every bad psychiatrist, neurologist or psychologist out there there are good ones.

The posters on here who want to totally dissuade the OP from ever trying any kind of psychiatric med or trying to see any kind of professional are doing him a disservice.

What profession in the entire world doesn't have it's share of quacks???

There are bad cops, and good cops, crooked lawyers and honest lawyers, carpenters who will charge you 3 times the amount they should for a job you could have done yourself...and the analogies go on and on and on.

Those with an irrational hatred and fear of psychiatry have just that...an irrational hatred and fear.

Of course their feelings are largely based on the truth of all the quacks and side effects of meds that are out there, but for whatever reason they want to ignore all the good psychiatrists, psychologists and neurologists and all the cases of prescribed meds that have positively made life long changes in people's lives.

These same people will gladly self medicate most likely, with drugs which may or may not have proven long lasting negative side effects or proven to help with mental illness, and all the while they ignore the psychological side of it, which requires talking to a professional or at least trying some kind of mental or emotional techniques which might help like meditation, auto hypnosis, studying one's dreams, etc.

To write off every psychiatrist as a quack who runs tests on people like guinea pigs and write off every legal psychiatric med as something that is horribly dangerous is no better than thinking that a person with zero knowledge of how to help themselves with their problems is going to find great success self medicating with every obscure substance on the planet.

ANYTHING that works should be tried...and you won't know what works till you try it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Berdo tm1]

Yes i agree that its irrational to say 'not gonna try it wont work' before ive even given them a good try, its just ive been very reluctant so have tried to worm out of it by trying other things first to no avail- therapy/reading/worthless herbs/meditation/exercise etc.

converse to others i have a very clear idea of why im depressed- its cos i dont have a gf and no steady income- self employed but business is failing so no real regular reinforcers in my life only consistent punishment at my efforts. also my willpower has been whittled to a nub due to said punishment which is why id like something to boost my willpower to stimulate me to redouble my efforts without getting disheartened. cos at the moment the tiniest rebuff/failure is mentally crushing and i just give up and remain in inertia. I was a serious workaholic for a few years i really tried hard but failed and thus my will for it has dwindled.

i dont think wanna do straight ssris tho for their sexual dysfunction issues. the main reason im depressed is a want a gf/s but my low self esteem keeps screwing me over as you are a social pariah if you dont have superhuman social confidence. i do get laid sporadically but i keep losing the girls due to low self esteem/neediness leaking out and also i just watch myself not taking advantage of many other opportunities in day to day. im thinking i can 'fake it till you make it' by using happy pills as a crutch to get some good regular pussy then ill drop them. also i get erectile dysfuntion which is totally psychological which i attribute to low self esteem induced by the depression. so i wanna avoid ssris as i dont wanna make that worse.

i also am familiar with ssri induced anorgasmia from mdma and also form kanna, its really frustrating. id hate that 24/7. Plus ive always been more partial to dopamine than serotonin. with pure sorotonin there is just an overall feeling of emasculation whereas i want that eye of the tiger manly drive that more straight stims give . unfortunately for me in the uk no wellbutrim as that seemed great apart from the seizure risk. Reboxetine seems like another option but im skeptical how good a pure andreanline booster would feel without and of the happier chems being involved. ive had ephedrine and yohimbe and both just cause sketchy unnerving jitteriness. so i wonder if reboxetine would be the same, form reading reports it seems less that way but as always im skeptical.

i thought maybe modafinil for an off label use as depression? any otehr ideas? i think ive read up for months on all the common possiblities but maybe theres something ive not heard of that others more versed in anti depressants could recommend.

 

[TheLostBoys]

I know people that use tramadol for depression.......obviously they were prescribed for pain but it helps her 100%.

Know another woman that's been on vicodin for over 10 years & she uses it for her depression. Both of these women have self control & are successful business women.

If you can control it, I would try tramadol........

I know there is a lady out in Seattle that was prescribed tramadol for depression but I don't think doctors will give it out for that.......gone are the good old days when vicodin was given out for depression.

As for ssri's, if you want, its up to you to try them. All I was remarking to is I know of way too many people that have lost their minds on them. I know of 3 people that have dementia/alzhiemers only a few years after starting on those pills. I know 2 girls that have gained over 100 pounds each after being on them for 1 to 2 years.

Sari's cause suicidal thoughts & many other negative effects.

I know you are looking for a solution but if your business was doing well & you had a steady gf, would you be depressed? Probably not.......so your depression doesn't sound like a chemical imbalance, its more of the situation you are in that has brought on your depression.

 

[Mycophile]

I know people that use tramadol for depression.......obviously they were prescribed for pain but it helps her 100%.

Know another woman that's been on vicodin for over 10 years & she uses it for her depression. Both of these women have self control & are successful business women.

If you can control it, I would try tramadol........

I know there is a lady out in Seattle that was prescribed tramadol for depression but I don't think doctors will give it out for that.......gone are the good old days when vicodin was given out for depression.

As for ssri's, if you want, its up to you to try them. All I was remarking to is I know of way too many people that have lost their minds on them. I know of 3 people that have dementia/alzhiemers only a few years after starting on those pills. I know 2 girls that have gained over 100 pounds each after being on them for 1 to 2 years.

Sari's cause suicidal thoughts & many other negative effects.

I know you are looking for a solution but if your business was doing well & you had a steady gf, would you be depressed? Probably not.......so your depression doesn't sound like a chemical imbalance, its more of the situation you are in that has brought on your depression.

You should have said "SSRI's CAN cause suicidal thoughts & many other negative effects" but they don't always.

 

[TheLostBoys]

You should have said "SSRI's CAN cause suicidal thoughts & many other negative effects" but they don't always.

Yes, thanks for the correction........

 

[Miss Trust]

I was lucky to find a doctor who was interested in all possible avenues of treatment rather than just being a drug peddler, as I was highly skeptical of the pharmaceutical industry (and still am). Given my own past and present feelings, I'm not surprised by the SSRI hate. But honestly, what is so blanket bad about this class of drug? Sure, if it's the wrong drug for you it's not good to take. But find the right drug, SSRI or not, and it will be extremely helpful. I'm a very difficult case, extremely sensitive to side effects and not particularly sensitive to the intended therapeutic effects. Drugs tend to work as badly as possible in my system, who knows why. But I was able to find something that worked.

I think it's just bad HR to dissuade someone from taking any SSRI. No one will force you to keep taking it if it sucks. There's no harm in trying.

Can you tell me what you take? Or is it confidential.. I was curious because I am like you and very sensitive side effects of everything. Every pill has side effects and every time I take something, even if it is just a tylenol 3, I get a side effect.

If I still have these brain zaps after I am back on my celexa for a while, I could ask the Dr for the kind you take, just to try it.
I am bipolar and should be on a bipolar medication but the side effects are so bad, I would rather die, so I quit those 10 years ago.

The celexa is not too bad (40 mg), but I would like something that doesn't put on weight as I am 20 lbs over now and I hate it. Tell me, if you know, when I am cutting back on my percs, would I also be getting these brain zaps from that cut the same as SSRI.s?

Thanx for all your help to everyone.