Difficulty interpreting PubMed excerpt on Neferine (blue Lotus) Serotonin effects

[Mycophile]

I recently got some Blue Lotus (Nelumbo Nucifera) stamens (not sure if stamens are stems?) and was considering putting some in my vaporizer and seeing the effects.

Because I take Prozac and Klonopin I want to make sure this is safe, particularly with the SSRI and that it won't cause serotonin syndrome, so I looked it up on PubMed but not being educated in science I had difficulty understanding this excerpt.

All I know is that it mentioned having similar effects to serotonergic antidepressants in rats and "it's effects are mediated by the 5-HT1A receptors (I don't know what that means). (I was told to stay away from 5htp, but is this connected?...doesn't seem so...)

Just based on uneducated guesswork, it seems like MAYBE this is something that could interact badly with Prozac, but I just don't know.

If anyone can interpret this for me and whether or not it means anything regarding whether or not it is safe to smoke Blue Lotus with Prozac and Klonopin (possibly Kratom as well if safe...) it would be appreciated, I have no way of knowing if there is more information encoded in this than I am able to decipher.

In looking on other sites I haven't found mentions of it being mixed with SSRIs, though someone did mention taking Blue Lotus with Xanax and not having problems.


Excerpt:


Antidepressant-like effects of neferine in the forced swimming test involve the serotonin1A (5-HT1A) receptor in mice.

Sugimoto Y1, Furutani S, Nishimura K, Itoh A, Tanahashi T, Nakajima H, Oshiro H, Sun S, Yamada J.
Author information



Abstract

The effects of neferine, an alkaloid of Nelumbo nucifera Gaertner embryos, on immobility in the forced swimming test, which is used to evaluate antidepressants, were investigated in mice. The administration of neferine from 25 to 100 mg/kg i.p. elicited anti-immobility effects in mice. The molecular dose effects of neferine in the forced swimming test were almost equal to those of the typical antidepressants maprotiline and imipramine. The involvement of the 5-HT receptor subtypes was also studied using 5-HT receptor antagonists. Anti-immobility effects of neferine are antagonized by the serotonin1A (5-HT1A) receptor antagonist, N-[2-[4-(2-methoxyphenyl)-1-piperazinyl]ethyl]-N-(2-pyridinyl)cyclohexanecarboxamide (WAY 100635). However, the 5-HT1B receptor antagonist, 3-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]-4-hydroxy-N-[4-(4-pyridinyl)phenyl] benzamide dihydrochloride (GR 55562), the 5-HT2 receptor antagonist, 6-methyl-1-(methylethyl)-ergoline-8beta-carboxylic acid 2-hydroxy-1-methylpropyl ester (LY 53857), the 5-HT3 receptor antagonist, ondansetron and the 5-HT4 receptor antagonist, 4-amino-5-chloro-2-methoxy-benzoic acid 2-(diethylamino)ethyl ester (SDZ 205,557) did not affect the anti-immobility effects of neferine. The anti-immobility effect of the selective 5-HT1A receptor agonist, 8-hydroxy-2-(di-n-propylamino)tetaralin (8-OH-DPAT) was also antagonized by WAY 100635. Furthermore, co-administration of subactive doses of neferine (10 mg/kg) and 8-OH-DPAT (0.1 mg/kg) produced synergistic antidepressant-like effects. These results suggest that neferine shows antidepressant-like effects in mice similar to typical antidepressants and that these effects are mediated by the 5-HT1A receptor. Therefore, the central effects of neferine are likely to be linked to serotonergic neurotransmission.

 

[Lightning-Nl]

Should be fine, this is only a 5HT1a agonist from what I can tell. Taking them together will be completely fine since 5HT1a decreases synaptic Serotonin release. Also, the Klonopin is a benzo and it would stop or at least attenuate the effects of the prozac and neferine if anything toxic did happen.

 

[asecin]

dunno why you ordered that. if you have done and still do much more potent pharmaceuticals, this shit is like, a joke. its meant for kids, kind of like, introduction to drugs. you had to try it years ago before you did anything harsher.

 

[Mycophile]

dunno why you ordered that. if you have done and still do much more potent pharmaceuticals, this shit is like, a joke. its meant for kids, kind of like, introduction to drugs. you had to try it years ago before you did anything harsher.

I don't know if I've done what anyone would consider "potent pharmaceuticals", and probably haven't in comparison to most on here. I've never done a "research chemical" for example.

I've done various substances throughout the years, and still have curiosity in trying out whatever I think won't conflict with my medications or my life.

This seems to fit the bill along with a few other things I've been researching because I want pleasant or interesting highs with the fewest possible physical and psychological dangers.

Kind of a silly and superior viewpoint to assume that anyone curious about trying anything needs to do it in a specific order.

If that was the case I'd have tried Kratom long before Oxycodone or Cocaine.

 

[sekio]

I'm not sure that blotus stamens actually contain nuciferine as its active component. There are a lot of non volatile flavonoids (like the stuff in tea) instead. I don't think they'd vaporise very well.

Stamens are the little alfalfa-sprout looking things in the middle of the flower that act as the flower's reproductive organ. (so basically you have a bag of flower dicks)

They don't seem to have anything to do with serotonin and are rather antipyretic (fever stoppers) and antioxidants.

Either way there simply cannot be a lot of alkaloids in stamens, because they're

Here's a review on lotus for you.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1211/jpp.61.04.0001/full

 

[Mycophile]

^^^^^

Thanks,

I will definitely thoroughly look through that link before I try the stamens in any form, tea, smoking or otherwise.

Yeah, I was really surprised by what these things looked like...basically just sprouts/straw-like material.

Do you think there's even any point in trying this in terms of mind altering qualities?

Would I have been better off buying the lotus petals instead?

 

[sekio]

I'd just make a tea out of it. It shouldn't have any more pharmacological action than saffron does.

It certainly seems the whole flower is what you'd want.

 

[Mycophile]

^^^

I'll try that, perhaps with some Mugwort I just got and Kratom.

Guess I wasted some money.

If it's supposedly so ineffective I wonder why it was so praised by the Ancient Egyptians?

I'd heard that one of their most praised entheogens was a combination of Blue Lotus, Opium and Mandrake Root...who knows, maybe it has some synergistic effect with those two?

A few reports on Erowid show people having real effects from it, one in particular had a person claiming it was one of his favorite drugs and was highly pleasurable, but you never know, could just be placebo I guess...

 

[sekio]

The stamens aren't the whole flower and different parts of the plant have different effects, so it's a bit hasty to assume that lotus is totally useless. Would you throw out premium cannabis buds if you made cannabis root tea once and it sucked?

I can tell you that opium and mandrake is basically morphine and atropine and that is a real potent inducer of... well, it makes you feel pretty fucked up I'd imagine

 

[Mycophile]

Haha,

I also remember you'd said not to take too much Blue Lotus cause high doses can cause vomiting, so I won't dose high just in case, assuming that other than in excessive amounts it's probably harmless.

The Blue Lily also seems to be very closely related to the lotus, though not identical from what I read.

 

[asecin]

i tried all parts of that plant, as i said, useless to experienced drug user. it feels like a tiny buzz of valerian or one of those homopathetic errr homopathic medicines. from what use i can see from it, i guess ill support it as a tea for mild cold for a child below the age of 10