Brand Discussion

Figures

From what I have seen on myself, ace is pretty damn unbeatable shit - Well, except when combined with mast
 
benzoman12345 said:
I was worried about sides for too long and I'm day 4 in on Ace,

I already have anxiety and sleep problems, known to be an angry person bla bla bla and I'm fine

I did get night terrors and some sweaty sheets and a bit of anger.... big deal ??

The sides are nothing that can't be controlled I'll finish my 20 days of 50mg ED and I may jump up to 100mg, not sure yet, the whole Tren sides thing aint as big a deal as people make it out to be if anybody was gna get the sides really bad it woulda been me lol
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Night terrors and fucked up dreams you get used to. Same goes for the sweats.
 
Nice you must be ripped as fuck

I'm gna bump my dose up to 100mg ED , I'm 5 days in on 50mg and I'm fine sides wise and noticing slight changes physique wise.

A few new lines have appeared :)

Forgot: I do still have Test and Deca in my system and taking 50mg Anavar Ed as well
 
nolys said:
Fair enough Guido I see where your coming from here, I'm not as much bothered about the sides as I am about how the dramatic effects of tren are, the main reason I'm looking to try it is simply the mutations it causes as you said.

Would you even recommend maybe a 4 week ace kick at 300mg bumped to 400mg with tren e, so that the dose is just carried on from the ace with nobuild up ect.
Don't forget I never used this compound which is why I ask.

I'm not worried about sides lol.

Edit - what I'm trying to say is will the effects of the tren e be the same as the ace once they have fully kicked into effect? I may grab 2 vials of tren ace and a few vials of tren e to keep it going.
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Once released into the blood and devoid of its ester tren is tren... No difference, the only issue is the speed of release into the blood-stream and the amount of compound in the bolus....

This is what I have on same compounds with different esters:

When comparing tren enanthate to tren acetate. Somehow the perception has risen that 350 mg acetate is worth more than 600mg of enanthate. But at 81.1 and 66.2% respectively, you?ll find those doses amount to 284 and 397 mg of trenbolone each. A difference of more than 100mg in favour of enanthate. However enanthate is often used in a different fashion, injected one per half-life (weekly) and will build up slower. Hence stabilized levels are reached faster and stability is maintained easier with more frequent injection. However since many users now realize you can only judge the difference with a time shift of almost a week and a half, and are injecting enanthate bi-weekly to e3d we are actually seeing there isn't a huge difference between the compounds. When you also compare price-wise that longer esters, at least for underground gear (tren being a good example since its always underground), are typically cheaper, it makes sense, for some compounds, to opt for the longer esters.

The difference in metabolization rate. AAS metabolize at the hands of a ton of enzymes in the body. The rate of appearance influences the rate of metabolization. The higher the bolus, the higher the degree of metabolization. For instance trenbolone has very few metabolites, and they are all inactive or less active.

Ester testosterones can reduce this problem of metabolisation because they slowly build up to a more stable dose, and despite small fluctuations is mostly kept stable throughout. This decreases the rate of metabolisation by spreading the testosterone out over time more. Even if you compare an acetate to a suspension, the acetate spreads the dose over 36-48 hours, where the base will enter blood within the hour. So while you might be inclined to use both on a daily basis, the effect is hugely different. This won?t apply to a huge amount of compounds, but it surely demonstrates that for testosterones, esters are more relevant than for most compounds.

Build-up and distribution of dose. You can easily compare esters of the same drug, provided you inject them at the same time-point during their half-life, and extrapolate them time-wise. If you inject once every half-life you can use tren acetate every 36 hours and tren enanthate once every 6 days. But in most cases we will use more frequently. This brings up two issues. The first is comparing products injected during different points, like tren acetate daily vs tren enanthate weekly. Obviously build-up will be considerably slower for the enanthate and the peak dose will be roughly around the half-life. With ed injections of acetate you will actually not just build up faster, but the peak dose will be higher than the half-life, because a larger dose of the first injection still remains in you when you place the second. As such you can really only compare equally spaced doses, based on half-life. So tren ace ed would only compare equally to tren enth e3d. The second problem is that because you are looking at a three times longer period, it takes three times longer to build up to the stable dose in this case. For ace that will only be about 5 days, for enth that will obviously be more like 15 days. For a compound like tren I?ve always found that side-effects are more severe during build-up. This could indeed give the impression that enanthate has more sides, because with ace you?d be through the worst of it in 5 days, and with enth that could last up to 2 weeks. That also means if you use equipotent doses like 350mg weekly of acetate and 430mg of enanthate weekly, that you?ll need to run the enanthate 2 weeks longer for the same results. Comparing doses like 350mg ace to 600mg enth however, you should arrive at the same or better results, provided both are run for a sufficient length of time (8+ weeks)

As you inject your doses you will get a peak and a trough for the test in your blood so you want to try inject frequently enough to keep it towards the peak level and stop it dropping too low to keep it as stable as possible.

There is indeed a study (minto et al.) showing that a difference in release time is not solely the result of the ester, but also the place of injection. Hence for some very metabolizable drugs, rotating sites frequently can have an impact as well. But again, the impact should be minimized by injecting more frequently than the half-life (ed for short compounds, e3d/e4d for longer compounds), which I think most people already employ to keep volume of injections down.

Percentage of steroid in common esters:

Testosterone Propionate (78.8% )
Testosterone Phenylpropionate (64.5% )
Testosterone Enanthate (67.8% )
Testosterone Cypionate (65.8% )
Testosterone Undecanoate (59.4% )
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate (63.3% )
Nandrolone Decanoate (60% )
Trenbolone Acetate (81.1% )
Trenbolone Enanthate (66.2% )
Drostanolone Propionate (79.7% )
Drostanolone Enanthate (69% )

Methenolone Acetate (82.9% )
Methenolone Enanthate (68.8% )
Boldenone Undecylenate (59.5% )

AAS are not widely different. 99% of their effect is mediated through the genomic AR pathways. Any differences would therefore have to mediated by a differential effect on the AR, but these molecules are pretty small, and therefore don't have the bulk that SARMS have to impact AR folding and co-factor recruiting. The only steroid that has any proof that it affects AR-conformation is trenbolone, which seems to cause a break in helix 12 that could impact co-factor recruitment. Could being the operative word. For the most part, where actual muscle growth is concerned, if matched for affinity, AAS don't differ widely from each other.
so steroids that are known to be better at increasing lbm such as nandrolone versus lets say equipoise has better muscle building effects because it binds more efficiently or readily to androgen receptors in the muscle cell itself? makes me wonder why some very strong androgens or 5a reduced steroids arent more potent muscle builders.

Data for a drug with a 36 hour half-life (acetate) taken daily. 3x it's half-life is 4.5 days. It reaches 87% of its maximal dose by the 4.5 day mark. The remaining 13% will happen at a very slow rate over a very extended period of time.

So while its probably not wise to state this fact literally, for all intents and purposes you can factor 3x the half-life of a drug until it more or less flattens out to a level you will perceive as stable.

High concentrations will no doubt decrease the half-life, but place of inject will matter as well, since a thigh or delt inject has a reduced half-life compared to glute for example. So I'm not sure for any given drug, in any given concentration in any given location I can give you exact numbers. Merely that how we use its better to factor it on the lower side, so you can probably discard any number 10 and over. For longer esters (enth and up w regards to linear carbon chains) I would factor 6-8 days. Build-up to 85+% should last about 18-24 days (3 weeks for easy calc) If you were to use at .66 of half-life. However bi-weekly would be about .5 of half-life so build-up would be faster (residual dose is larger), so at best guess, and without doing the actual math enanthates would hang between 14 and 18 days to smoothly build up. Oddly enough, using the same dosing scheme you'd probably have a hard time going over 3 to 3.5 weeks even with undecanoates and undecylenates, simply because despite the longer half-life, the same frequency indicates and earlier time point in the half-life, and thus a higher residual dose after each injection.

Hope you understand all that.... Basically inject frequently enough with Tren-e and you won't have issues..
 
Anybody have experience with kalpa pharm? I have a buddy that had those and it seemed to work pretty well with him, didn't take bloods or anything and I've read mixed things about them being under dosed and such.
 
nolys said:
Joe many compounds is that in your first cycle sero?
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it will be my third injectable. Been on test since Feb. Added in eq about mid to late March and upped eq in April. I'm liking what I see so adding in tren now at low dose but keeping test high for growth.
 
Serotonin101 said:
it will be my third injectable. Been on test since Feb. Added in eq about mid to late March and upped eq in April. I'm liking what I see so adding in tren now at low dose but keeping test high for growth.
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Why not save the tren for a later cycle? I understand the severe temptation to use tren I get it myself I want it so bad but I know it's best to play with other substances and gradually move my way up.
Im on my 3rd cycle and I've used Dbol, superdrol, test and deca and that's about it don't need anything else yet lol.
 
nolys said:
Why not save the tren for a later cycle? I understand the severe temptation to use tren I get it myself I want it so bad but I know it's best to play with other substances and gradually move my way up.
Im on my 3rd cycle and I've used Dbol, superdrol, test and deca and that's about it don't need anything else yet lol.
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anyone have experience w/ hometown powders? I want to grab 10-15grams of their var.... much more affordable as powder
 
If I had a reliable source for powders I'd be brewing everything myself tailor made

If your gna take Var tabs I recommend ProChem

I'm getting results and their lab test was all good shoed up as Oxandrolone
 
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smson_420 said:
You fucking serious bro? You get blood work?

I thought about this, but this just seems way beyond extreme
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I'm serious and I constantly get bloodwork.

I alternate between 50mg ED to 150mg ED depending on my goals and how I feel. Most pro bodybuilders, "natural" bodybuilders, and fitness models are on Trenbolone all the time. It's not something I recommend unless you have a pretty good handle on yourself psychologically and unless you can "read" your body. You have to know when it's time to lower the dose and give yourself a break.

It's actually very common with some high level bodybuilders.
 
benzoman12345 said:
Nice you must be ripped as fuck

I'm gna bump my dose up to 100mg ED , I'm 5 days in on 50mg and I'm fine sides wise and noticing slight changes physique wise.

A few new lines have appeared :)

Forgot: I do still have Test and Deca in my system and taking 50mg Anavar Ed as well
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This is why I love Tren Ace. If you got a good foundation, you are lean enough, and you know how to eat and train, once the stuff has taken effect you start noticing changes.
 
benzoman12345 said:
If I had a reliable source for powders I'd be brewing everything myself tailor made

If your gna take Var tabs I recommend ProChem

I'm getting results and their lab test was all good shoed up as Oxandrolone
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I was just gonna cap them myself because I get those gelatin caps like a 1000 a bag for like 4 bucks on amazon. capping them is the same release time as a tab right?? or will the powder change the half life or something of it so ill have to dose more frequently??

anyways... yah I think im going to start just buying all pills in bulk powder.............. im sure ill save myself thousands down the line that way, probably be getting purer product too as i'm sure brewers cut their shit and say the dosage is higher than it actually is........... the only ones I even want are anavar and tbol.......
 
-Guido- said:
I'm serious and I constantly get bloodwork.

I alternate between 50mg ED to 150mg ED depending on my goals and how I feel. Most pro bodybuilders, "natural" bodybuilders, and fitness models are on Trenbolone all the time. It's not something I recommend unless you have a pretty good handle on yourself psychologically and unless you can "read" your body. You have to know when it's time to lower the dose and give yourself a break.

It's actually very common with some high level bodybuilders.
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what are your thoughts on androgen receptors being flooded and eventually not becoming as responsive as they once were do to their downregulation or whatever.......

im curious to see if that theory holds any weight or not
 
DETROIT*edm*JUNKIE said:
what are your thoughts on androgen receptors being flooded and eventually not becoming as responsive as they once were do to their downregulation or whatever.......

im curious to see if that theory holds any weight or not
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Studys show androgen receptors are still up-regulating after the 6 month mark.. Being nuclear receptors (not membrane receptors) they don't seem to be regulated by the same rules as receptor mediated endocytosis....

5136337.jpg

Receptor mediated endocytosis (nothing to do with nuclear receptors)..


The androgen receptor down-regulation theory has been debunked many years ago, in fact the longer a person is on AAS, the more AR's seem to upregulate over time, resulting in greater AR numbers.... Thats why beginners don't need huge doses, as they don't have enough receptors for large amounts of gear... in AAS users that have been on many years, receptor numbers seem to increase to accommodate the increasing number of cycles and greater amounts of AAS over time....
 
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