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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

What will happen using immodium for opiate withdrawals?

T

trevpalmd

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
6
Greetings All,

I am brand new to this site, and this is my first time posting. I am going to try to make this brief. I am a chronic pain sufferer who has been addicted to opiate meds for several years. I am completely miserable and ruled by this situation, sick with it, and sick without it. Today, I am on day 5 of a cold turkey from my hydrocodone pills, having run out of them early, Again !! I am so angry at myself, but that isn't going to help me at this moment I know. This is the second time I have gond through cold turkey wds, the first time by choice to try to detox, was unsuccessful. This time I plan to return to my meds as soon as I can get them, which I hate but it will have to be.

My question is about the use of comfort meds during this time. I have some clonidine and some immodium, plus some soma. The main thing I am curious about is the immodium. I tried using it yesterday for the first time in higher doses than usual, and felt some definite relief of the wds. I had to use what I felt was quite a bit to achieve that, 4-6 pills at a time. But it was worth it, as anyone who has been through this knows. What is the downside of coming off this immodium, does anyone know? I am trying to do this on my own at home, and have no health insurance to get a treatment doctor with. It is impossible to get a doctor to write a subutex rx now, as I have figured out. I have to live like this until next Wednesday or Thursday, and was just wondering if anyone else has had any experience with these symptoms? What will happen to my bowel situation, sorry to ask ....

Do you have any advice on how long this all will last? The ultimate question ~~~~

Thanks so much in advance
 
I always hear people saying how fear loperamide because they think it's going to plug them up for weeks. I have taken doses ranging from 20-40mg on numerous occasions to get some relief during WD and I never experienced any kind of constipation. In fact on all occasions I was able to shit fine the following day. The only time I get noticeable constipation or stool hardening from opiates is if I go on pretty heavy dope run for 4-5 days. Trying to go after that feels like how I imagine child birth would be like.

Maybe I just have grown a tolerance to those effects of opiates. I don't like to tell people what they experience isn't valid or is all in their head, but I feel like a lot of people just hear other people's fears about lope and don't want to try it themselves simply because it is sold as an 'anti-diarrheal'.
 
Immodium does help with opiate WD supposedly it is an opiate that cannot cross the Blood Brain Barrier so you cannot get high from it. Immodium does bind to the opiate receptors in your gut and that's why it helps with some of the WD symptoms. It works better for some than others. Depending on what state you live in you can get kratom at the head shops, if you do a quick search on kratom and opiate WD a lot of people swear by it.
 
You will be fine. Just keep your doses moderate, and you won't get any constipation. All opioids can cause constipation, it's not something particular to loperamide.
Imodium is an opioid, it doesn't cross blood-brain barrier though so you can't get high on it, but it works great for WDs.
 
Wiki:
It is a misconception that loperamide does not cross the blood–brain barrier. Loperamide does cross this barrier, although it is immediately pumped back out into non–central nervous system (CNS) circulation by P-glycoprotein. While this mechanism effectively shields the CNS from exposure (and thus risk of CNS tolerance/dependence) to loperamide, many drugs are known to inhibit P-glycoprotein and may thus render the CNS vulnerable to opiate agonism by loperamide.[8]
 
You can end up with an inflammation of your intestines from too much loperamide (happened to me when traveling). Be careful with the dosage.
 
I'm going to move this to Basic Drug Discussion, as TDS isn't really the place for it.

TDS >>> BDD

~ Vaya
 
Hey, Im with you and know the feeling. Im in the same situation as you are right now. Let me just say to be careful with the immodium because you can get addicted if you take it long enough. I used it for withdrawals in the past at around 30-60 pills and did become dependent on it and the withdrawals are no joke.At the dosage your on or maybe a bit higher if need be and for a short time it should be safe and will def help withdrawals because it IS an opiate.If you dont take it right though it will only prolong withdrawal and can also raise your tolerance to other opiates.One word of advice that I wish I knew was because of immodiums long half-life, only take it every other day.

If you take it everyday you are actually increasing your dose because its still in your system.Thats how I ended up needing ever increasing doses and couldnt understand why.Im in the position of needing to take immodium again Im thinking only maybe slightly above reccomended amounts to help withdrawal from percs, but am kind of scared because I was addicted before. If used correctly it should help quite a bit but yea be careful because others have found if used too long or everyday at increasing doses its not 100 percent free ride.
 
THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH !!!!! I am so glad that I have landed here. YOur replies have helped me immensely. I was wondering what the half life was ................... I am only on day two of using the lope, and will only need to use it for 4 or 5 more days max. Is this too long? The most I have taken at once so far have been 4-6 at a time. And it does certainly help, I was shocked at how much so. I still feel really weird, and kinda high, or spaced out I should say. But I was able to go to the store, which is so much more than I was able to do last time I did this with nothing.

I am a healthcare professional myself, although this is out of my realm. So I am aware to take advice in the proper way. So many other sites just won't let you talk about meds, dosages needed, etc. that they are of no real help. So now a real question is, Can I turn this into a viable long term detox? Last time I had to go on sub. I did a 10 day protocol, and had a mild issue at the end, but it worked. I just never got any relief at all during cold turkey, even after a week, or two, I Don't remember how long, but it just lasted and lasted and lasted, with no relief in severity during that whole time, no easing of symptoms at all. I was on more and stronger drugs at that time, but still they were the same half life as the hydrocodone I am on now. Since I am on day 5, and I can't believe I have not taken a hydro in 5 days, it would be wonderful to continue towards a real detox at this point. Does anyone think that is possible with my scenario? Would I just start to taper down on the immodium after a while? And how long?

I appreciate any and all input ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

xoxoxoxox
 
Its actually really amazing that you are getting that much relief from only 4-6 of them. That's within reccomended dosages so absolutely dont take more if you dont need it.If you are already on day five you should be through the acute withdrawal from the vics (I think you said it was).Of course without the lope you would still probably feel crappy for a while.You can either stay where your at by continuing to take lope every other day until you get your script filled (if you plan on going back to the vics 4 or five more days is more than safe to stay on the lope).

Another option because youve not taken them long would be that you wouldnt need to taper and could just stop and see how you feel.

The last option would be to stay where your at on the lope and taper down by one pill every other day to zero.Like I said, you will probably still feel some withdrawal but the least time your on it the better.Of course at the low dose your on you might could delay this taper by longer, its hard to say exactly how long though because everyone is different.Some people end up staying on it at much higher doses for long periods though because when they try and stop they still feel withdrawal so as long as your aware of that possibility and are careful you should be fine.

Personally, I would say that if you really want off of opiods altogether with the least possible withdrawal you could stay where your at on the lope until you get to see a doc (if its within a reasonable amount of time, couple weeks or so) and ask for a script for neurontin and clonidine(you could say you wanted the script for anxiety if you dont wanna tell the doc, thats what they gave it to me for).

You would then start on that while you do a quick taper off of the lope. Those two meds(esp if you got both of them) would most likely cover any post acute withdrawal you would have and give you a great buffer for when you come off the lope. They really worked miracles for my opiate withdrawal esp the neurontin.In rehab I saw neurontin completely turnaround a guy in horrific methadone withdrawal.Of course everyones different, but in my experience those two meds work for more people in withdrawal than not.

ps. I wanted to add that you could also just be honest with the doc and tell him why you wanted the meds ( if your really ready to quit of course) but either way they are pretty easy to get because they give them to addicts not only for withdrawal but for anxiety as well.
 
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:D

I appreciate this input ~~~~~~~~~` I am not sure yet about going back. It would seem a waste of over a week off hydros to go back, but then, I do have severe chronic pain, which will get worse after I Return to work. I also have the problem of having trouble getting used to being back on my hydros, have you experienced that? IT starts to affect me differently, making me really sleepy and dragged out, rather than the opposite, really. I am damned if I do and damned if I Don't, and feel like my life is certainly controlled by opiate. I am not sure if the way I Feel today, using the lope only, is good enough to function at work. I need to be really there, especially mentally, but physically also, and I feel spaced out, and would be terrified of having a 'crash' at work. I do also have some clonidine and some carisoprodol, which is muscle relaxer soma. I will use those at night now only, since the lope is holding off wds during the day, and hopefully I can sleep that way. I have not slept worth a s*** since this all started.

I wish I would not run out early, this is about my 5th time of having this problem. I tend to use 40-80 mgs of hydro a day, the dose is supposed to be 40, so I definitely overuse. I don't think I do it to get 'high' I have so much work stress and pressure, I take it to help me make it through, or so I tell myself ..................... Just the thought of really getting through this and completing detoxing is both wonderful and scary to me ........... I am torn.

But for tonight, I am so happy that I feel ok. I feel a little hungry even :)

Thanks again~~~~
 
I can’t imagine ever staying off opiates if I had a script for them so I feel ya there. You know in rehab they liked to tell us that over time pain medication could actually make pain worse. It is called opioid-induced hyperalgesia; have you noticed that at all? And as we know any pain is going to be even worse while in withdrawal on top of the crippling mental fatigue, depression and lack of energy. Of course I’m not at all saying that you don’t need them, because I know that there have been many times when I couldn’t have done without them and unfortunately I know I wouldn’t turn a script down and I don’t even have chronic pain!

I know what you’re saying about feeling kind of icky on the hydros too. Usually it’s great the first couple days, then afterwards especially when you take more (which I do also whenever I can!) it can almost makes you feel a different kind of ickiness.

I have used low doses of daily DXM between 30-60 mg with a lot of success as far as keeping my tolerance and use down to a minimum. Low dose DXM can also help potentiate the lope and help withdrawal in its own way too. I know that’s adding something else to the mix but it might cut back on you having to raise your dose as much with either the lope or especially if you go back to hydros. To avoid taking DXM every day while taking pills, I switch up between DXM and magnesium taken at least 30 minutes before any opiates. They are both NMDA antagonists and said to block receptors that are involved in tolerance and seems to really work (although I think DXM works better than the magnesium).Tolerance will still rise eventually but usually at a much slower rate.

That’s fantastic that you already have clonidine though, that is a great asset to have for withdrawal. Like I said, I would still also try and get some Neurontin if you could. Its cousin Lyrica I’ve heard is even better for withdrawal but harder to get. Other than being low on energy if you also had that you could easily get through times when or if you happen to run out early or even do decide to quit.

One thing I wanted to tell you about the Soma is that in some people it has caused restless legs that comes with opiate withdrawal to be worse. You might not be in that group but just look out for it and be aware if you take it in withdrawal and feel worse that might be why.

Lastly, you said your better but still might not be quite good enough for work. As I said before, the dose of loperamide your on right now is pretty low for opiate withdrawal. For me and most others it took at least 12 or 24 mg. You could go up just a little bit more until you feel more relief. I would say to try to go up a pill to about 8 and see what that does- it takes lope a long, long time to kick in (seemed at least three hours when I used to take it) so wait to judge it till you take more cause like I said you want the lowest dose possible to almost completely relieve withdrawal. If that still doesn’t do it, I’d just keep raising by one. You may need even more than 12 or perhaps less depending on your own chemistry and use. I have a feeling that in your case even just one or two more might make all the difference.Not that I’m encouraging you to take more of them for any other reason than it sounds like your withdrawal isn’t completely covered because at the right dose you should be able to even sleep through the night.

Anyways, yea I wish I didn’t love opiates as much as I do though cause I’m sick of going back and having to get off again… as we know after a while it really takes a toll on the body!
 
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Jesus, are you worried about kicking Immodium?
Grow a pair and soldier through it.
Throw the sons of bitches in the trash.

Look, I dont know how you have your mind trained, but if you are prescribed the codones, take em how you want but set aside a few for coming off of them.
Then ya know 2 a day, then 1.5, then 1, for work, it will get you through the day, then quit, and if you keep having the same problem every month well, it isnt really worth it is it?
 
She wasnt worried about kicking immodium persay, just doing it the right way without getting addicted like many actually have- Im embrarrassed to say I got addicted and yea Id be worried about going through that withdrawal again cause its real and it sucks but if used right it can be an asset.

I went back to the lope today albeit at low doses this time(only started with 4 of them). After a nice little hydro and perc binge lets just say it got bad and it got bad quick.With my new knowledge about it though,Im going to be super careful and do it right this time and dont screw it up because dont wanna end up where I was before. Keep me posted how you do on ur taper as it may also help me with doing mine the right way this time!
 
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Greetings All,

Today is day 6 for me, off hydros. Thank you sep for all your info and support here esp. LEt's just say that things are still pretty uncomfortable here. I can definitely tell that I am not in a normal place, but then again, I no longer HAVE a normal place, unfortunately. However, my evening was actually quite comfortable, which was great but a little scary too. I can't believe that I did not know this before about the lope. I am not functional enough to work, but I do know how horrible cold turkey is with nothing, and I am grateful. I guess I have taken about 10 or 11 lopes total today, in two dosings. I Feel ok at the moment. I see you are using it too. I hope it will work well for you. I noticed you said it takes a while to work, so I Hope to have another comfortable enough evening tonight.

So sep, I have another question ...................... when I Do get my rx refilled, will I have any trouble starting up with it again? I saw your post asking about precipitated wds. That terrifies me !!! I don't think that has ever happened to me, and I Don't want to start now. When I took sub before, I had to wait for 24 hours before doing so. Will I have to do that in this case? This is all new territory for me ................ I am so torn about what to do ............... I Guess I could just wait a while then try to taper this immodium, right? I know though, that there is no getting out of the final jump wds altogether, I am aware of that. I would give just about anything in the world to have a script for a few 2mg subutex, I could do a 10 day taper, then be done with it. The docs are so restricted now, more and more so. And I don't have health insurance, which is really the final nail in that coffin . I am truly on my own, which makes any and all advice here all the more valuable to me ~~~~~~~~~

Let me know how you are doing, ok? Take care ~~~
 
Dxm you mean? Dextromethorphan is a drug which is actually an opioid but, like loperamide doesn't cross the blood brain-barrier. It is found in most of your over the counter cough medicines as it is a fairly effective anti-tussive. Even though it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier as an opioid it will mess you up! Ever heard of Robo-tripping? DXM is a disassociative at higher doses and the trip is rather unpleasant in my opinion.

I don't knew much about it but some people use DXM in conjunction with opioids to keep their tolerance low. Like I said, I don't know the mechanism of how that works.

As far as loperamide in WDs it don't do much to make you feel better but it will at least keep you from shitting yourself!

Hope that helps!
 
It does, thanks !! I have gotten some relief from the lope, as above. How do you take the dxm ? Do you just buy a lot of cough syrup and drink it down? MORe than the recommended dose? LIke a whole bottle? I am clueless to this .................... I have been running out of my rx too early several times, which is how I ended up here. I would ultimate like to just slowly gather the ability to use the rx less and less, and after doing this this time, I feel pretty sure I can. I see now that I can live without my rx, just not so comfortably. I do have a lot of chronic pain though ............. dealing with that will remain to be seen ....... Thanks again....
 
Oh Gawd, doing okay on about 8 lopes but bought the gel caps and Im suffering horrific stomach pain- word to the wise, stick with the tablets if you can, those gel caps are a killer on the stomach! Yea though I think I read somewhere that lope can take about 4-5 hours to reach peak plasma so yea it’s hard to gauge cause it takes so long to kick in. 10 or 12 of them should help a bit more though.

Thankfully I think you might have misunderstood and thought I meant that Imodium will cause precipitated withdrawals when going back to another opiate like suboxone would. Now if you were going from Imodium to suboxone it might, but I haven’t found this to be the case with any other opioid.The only thing I have heard reported is when the user switches back to their DOC that they don’t feel it as much for a few days. I suspect this is because it blocks some of those opioid receptors as well as raising tolerance because on its own lope is still a pretty potent opioid. Good news is though, that if you’re planning to go back to the hydros, I think the only thing you might notice is that it takes a few days for them to work as well, but to my knowledge I haven’t heard of it causing precipitated withdrawals like subs would.

Going onto subs from the lope might because of the naloxone that’s in it. I can’t remember where I saw it but I actually did read a report of someone who had a doc tell them they would be fine to take sub after taking Imodium in recommended doses and actually were not. I actually used Lortab for the withdrawal from immodium and was fine,( yea that sounds crazy tho right, but I had really let the immodium use get out of hand).

So, how are you doing on 10- 12 of them? Yea, I know about docs and having no insurance as well, I don’t have it either and the treatment you get nowadays, lets just say is noticeably substandard. Something’s got to change about our system but unfortunately not to get political but Im not so sure if Obamacare is going to help. I sure wish it would, but I have my doubts.

Im still surprised by how many people still believe that immodium wont help withdrawals. As we know, if you take enough of it it will! As far as DXM, it is not an opiate but is structurally related to morphine.

“DXM is an analogue of morphine. It is specifically excluded from the Control Substances Act of 1970. It is in the morphinan class of structures, so it does have the underlying structure of morphine, but it is no a mu receptor agonist. It is an NMDA receptor antagonist so it mimics the effects of glutamine. So chemically it shares similar mu effects ketamine and PCP especially when taken in the third plateau doses and 4th plateau doses. To sum it up, it is structurally similar to the opiods but it chemically acts like ketamine and PCP. It is classified as a dissociative anesthetic.”

In doses slightly above recommended such as around 100-120 mg (depending on body weight), it can help opiate withdrawal because of the similar properties that it shares with morphine and its effects on serotonin receptors. Like I said, I take it to potentiate opiods and keep my tolerance down which at lower doses it is known to do.If you decided to try it though, first just do a test dose around 60 mg or so to make sure you are not enzyme deficient as some people are and this could make higher doses dangerous. Also, don’t do higher doses if you are on an anti-depressant as this can cause serotonin syndrome. Heres a good link about it and even has a DXM calculator. Ive never been brave enough to go above 120 mg but actually got a pretty good buzz from 100-120 of it and at times even found 60 mg helpful.

http://www.dextroverse.org/dextromethorphan.html
 
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