New Climate For Drug Sentencing, Guidelines Expected To Change

neversickanymore

Moderator: DS
Staff member
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
31,583
Location
babysitting the argument in my head
New Climate For Drug Sentencing, Guidelines Expected To Change
Liz Halloran
March 13, 2014

The nation's highest law enforcement official Thursday endorsed the "All Drugs Minus Two" proposal — as it's known by prison sentencing reformers — to change the way drug crime sentences are handed down.

Attorney General Eric Holder backed the concept, which has garnered support from across the political spectrum, in testimony before a commission examining federal prison sentencing guidelines. The proposed changes would lower by two levels current mandatory ranges that judges are obligated to use when sentencing defendants convicted of drug crimes.

"This straightforward adjustment to sentencing ranges – while measured in scope – would nonetheless send a strong message about the fairness of our criminal justice system," Holder testified. "And it would help to rein in federal prison spending while focusing limited resources on the most serious threats to public safety."

The sentencing commission is expected to make its recommendations next month and, if Congress doesn't object, they will be the new standard used by judges as of November.

Under the "drugs minus two" proposal, a defendant convicted of an offense involving 1 kilogram of heroin, for example, would be sentenced under "Level 30" mandatory guidelines, which allow a judge to impose a sentence of between 97 and 121 months.

Current guidelines require that judges impose on such a defendant a sentence under "Level 32" guidelines, requiring a 121 to 151 month incarceration.

"It's still a very long sentence," says Julie Stewart, co-founder of Families Against Mandatory Minimums and longtime advocate for changes in mandatory minimum sentencing. "But it is significant."

On Thursday, before delivering her own testimony to the sentencing committee, Stewart said that Holder's support, coupled with congressional activity on sentencing reform, and President Obama's actions on the issue, has her feeling like she's "living in an alternate universe – but one I'm happy in."

The issue of drug-sentencing reform has been getting historic traction in recent months, as strained federal prison budgets and persistent questions about fairness in sentencing have merged into a movement that has crossed ideological lines. The once third-rail issue, say advocates like Stewart, has gone mainstream.

Prison reform was even on the agenda at last week's Conservative Political Action Conference, where Texas Gov. Rick Perry was among those making the case for reforms. Also at CPAC was The Texas Public Policy Foundation, a libertarian organization that has advocated prison reforms ranging from diverting juvenile and nonviolent offenders from incarceration.

Vikrant Reddy of the foundation's Right on Crime initiative, which focuses on bipartisan efforts to reform state criminal justice policy, testified before the sentencing commission Thursday.

Reddy noted that the federal U.S. prison population has grown by 700 percent since 1980, and now exceeds 215,000. (Data also show that half of those in federal prisons have been convicted of drug-related crimes.)

"Many activists, policymakers, judges, victims' groups, and informed citizens not only welcome the 'All Drugs Minus Two' amendment," he said, "they feel it is long overdue."

"Some will likely say that the amendment is only a first step, and it ought to be the beginning, not the end, of a rethinking of federal sentencing priorities," he said.

Congress, which approved mandatory minimum prison sentences in 1986 when crack-fueled crime besieged big American cities, is working on legislative reforms that have the support of Tea Party Republicans like Rand Paul of Kentucky and liberal Democrats like Richard Durbin of Illinois.

Changes could retroactively apply 2010 crack cocaine sentencing reforms to prisoners convicted under previous standards, and give judges more sentencing discretion.

For the man who developed mandatory minimum sentences, the changes can't come soon enough.

"I've become infamous for my role," says Eric Sterling, who devised the mandatory minimums as counsel to the House Judiciary Committee in the 1980s. "I did a very poor job, and it's a shameful period for me that I was not more effective or skilled, or better informed."

The idea behind the mandatory minimums back then was to give the Justice Department guidance on the kind of criminals Congress wanted it to go after – big traffickers. But that's not how it turned out, Sterling says.

In the years since, he has become an advocate for drug policy and sentencing reform through his role as president of the Criminal Justice Policy Foundation, and as a spokesman for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, a pro-drug legalization and regulation organization.

The developments in recent years, and Holder's testimony Thursday, make an "important step forward, legally, politically, culturally," Sterling says.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...drug-sentencing-guidelines-expected-to-change
 
Only minus 2 levels, how about "drugs level 0"

seriously. where is the crime? is it cause people believe drugs are bad? am i going to get locked up for punching myself in the face or running into a wall? fuck Nixon, fuck Reagan!
 
This is absolutely ridiculous. I understand that 3 months less or a year less can be a HUGE difference. Hell, I was held in jail for 2 weeks on a drug violation and it felt like en eternity. But this is NOT real reform. How does possessing these drugs constitute such large amounts of sentencing time? I know people who have gotten manslaughter or even murder convictions and been out in 3 years. If they want to make the argument that it's because drug trade causes violence well.....It's the fucking illegalization of drugs that causes violence! Oh, and if they want to make the public health argument? Sure, drugs can cause serious public health issues. However, it's the criminilization of drugs that causes there to be cut, impure products, and uneducated users who share needles etc., and a higher prevalence of overdoses. Use Portugal as an example...I suggest you all read this article on how Portugal's drug reform laws caused overdoses and drug related sexually transmitted diseases to fall significantly over the 13 or so years since they have reformed their drug laws.

http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7
 
So translated this says we are going to do a little less of what has utterly failed to try and save some money??

^^Yup. It's like breaking into someone's house, stealing all of their earthly posessions, and then offering them the pack of gum they found on the coffee table back.

Everyone should check out that article on Portugal's drug policy I posted. They basically created a separate court for drug offences (does not include drug distributors or sellers who are still prosecuted in criminal court) in which the possession of ANY drug for personal use, not just marijuana (even heroin, meth, etc.), has been decriminalized and "offenders" are offered treatment programs or counseling instead of jail time. The article was written in 2012 (11 years after the law was passed) and as of that date, the number of addicts in the country has dropped by a whopping 50% and the prevalence of drug related STD's AND overdoses has fell even more significantly than the number of drug addicts (exact figures are not given, but over a 50% reduction is HUGE). I had to write a paper on this for my Human Services internship class at school and its really quite astounding.
 
I aim to work with society to increase respect of personal cognitive liberty. Marginally reducing excessive sentencing for non-violent drug crimes is a small step towards this goal. Some parts of the American government do function outside of the influence of the electorate. The system may be broken, but maintains a representative core. I chose to demonstrate support of policy makers in their pursuit to rectify some of the destructive consequences of The War On Drugs. WHEN A POLICY MAKER CHOOSES A CONTROVERSIAL STANCE THEY SHOULD KNOW THE ELECTORATE WILL SUPPORT THEM. Complaining small progress is to small is counter-productive.

This article also suggests the possibility of retroactive amelioration (changing the sentences of the previously convicted when laws change). Currently the United States doesn't participate in retroactive amelioration. The adoption of this could free many innocent people such as marijuana prohibition victims and free a large piece of tax revenue to be spent in more productive ways.

I support Eric Sterling having the courage to admit his mistake and move forward. Any policy maker or law enforcement official choosing to move away from drug policy violating basic human rights will have my support in that regard regardless of their previous position.

--------------------
http://www.shulginresearch.org
http://www.freeleonardpickard.org
http://www.maps.org
http://www.erowid.org
 
Last edited:
If you look at the positive changes as far a MJ in colorado it was the electorate doing it directly. With new technology do we really need a representative body anymore to "represent" us.. just seems like because of bribery, oh im sorry lobbying, they no longer represent the electorate very justly. At this point I say get rid of them and everyone who chooses can vote electronically directly.

That being said small steps seem to be where all changes start and it always seems to go so slow in the beginning, but in the end it seems to fly.

Great point on the "retroactive amelioration" as this is such a huge thing as people need to be let out and so many others need to have their criminal records removed.
 
At this point I say get rid of them and everyone who chooses can vote electronically directly.

So special interests (this is not a bad word, darnit California) just lobby voters directly? How many of the issues facing our nation's legislature are the citizenry prepared to deal with, or be expected to develop adequate knowledge of?

And dear God, imagine putting fiscal & monetary policy in the hands of the hoi polloi. *shudders*


FunctionalOlfactio said:

Hear, hear. Well put.
 
Functional it's not that i don't support it, I support it and think it should be amplified. It's not like he's browsing some junkie forum and reads that some drug users aren't happy with how little the reduction is so he just gives up the idea and raises sentences again.
 
^I get your point. I'm just sayin' (I dunno about him) that the "my way or the high way" interpretation of politics is a huge problem these days. See: the government shutdown and extreme partisanship in congress. Maybe they're wrong (they are), but the other side feels just as strongly about the prohibition issue as we do. So let's make small steps, and be proud of'em. I find taking the pessimistic view of everything leads me spiraling towards giving up on the entire system. YMMV, of course.
 
So special interests (this is not a bad word, darnit California) just lobby voters directly? How many of the issues facing our nation's legislature are the citizenry prepared to deal with, or be expected to develop adequate knowledge of?

This is kinda comprised of two opposing ideas so you may want to revisit it. As there would be no difference if everyone chose to vote with were the lobby told them except that if the vote were up to the people they would profit instead, so this would be good. But why not take lobbying and political contributions totally out.. I know wishful thinking cause the people in power want to stay in power and money is power right now. But as its actually worthless their so power is not guaranteed.

There is a percentage of morons in the world.. but this percentage will easily be dealt with through over all voting. The one thing im sure of is it takes many many many people to come to the correct conclusion. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.. but taken together we usually come to the best conclusion. (the power of blue light thread personified) So I think your opinion of the masses about their ability to do what is right is based in unfounded ideas and your trust in the representatives body's worth is just insane.
 
Last edited:
FeelG00d
Your comment didn't seem negative.

Eric Holder has the position of attorney general. The attorney general is the head of the Department of Justice. L.E.O.s are on this forum everyday and so are other Department of Justice employees. Words can be tricky. The words we use indirectly influence policy makers opinions.

Even if the D.O.J. or L.E.O. never knew of my opinion. These people are civil servants and my fellow citizens. They live and raise their families in the same country as I do. Public policy makes me a criminal because I use psychoactives responsibly and productively. This doesn't make these people my enemies. People bash and complain about L.E.O. excessively. These people are our employees and we should support them when possible, especially when they work in our favour.

--------------------
http://www.shulginresearch.org
http://www.freeleonardpickard.org
http://www.maps.org
http://www.erowid.org
 
i guess you can look at it like its a step forward which is better than no step. but still, its bullshit when you look at it from the fact that the same laws are in place. i feel they did it just to quiet certain groups of people. now they can sit on that for another 30 years but still say were doing something. like someone said stealing all your shit and giving you back that helf eaten pack of gum on the table
 
If you look at the positive changes as far a MJ in colorado it was the electorate doing it directly. With new technology do we really need a representative body anymore to "represent" us.. just seems like because of bribery, oh im sorry lobbying, they no longer represent the electorate very justly. At this point I say get rid of them and everyone who chooses can vote electronically directly.

That being said small steps seem to be where all changes start and it always seems to go so slow in the beginning, but in the end it seems to fly.

Great point on the "retroactive amelioration" as this is such a huge thing as people need to be let out and so many others need to have their criminal records removed.

That is a direct democracy, I think Switzerland or some other Scandinavian country has one where they vote on everything. For a change that extreme to occur the U.S. would likely have to fight brutally in and lose a world war or possibly have another civil war. Nothing short of that would allow for society to change that much, there are to many powerful forces fighting for the status quo.

It is also amazing the United States doesn't have retroactive amelioration, there is no justification for that. They will rape your future for a bullshit reason then keep you committing crime for food when the law is repealed.
 
Last edited:
nsa said:
At this point I say get rid of them and everyone who chooses can vote electronically directly

Seriously? Yeah, this fancy intranet system won't have massive problems with hacking, falsifying identity, espionage....I can't even fathom the multitude of things that could go wrong.

Anyway, ignoring that (I'm sure it could be better handled with thought), I am going to address you assuming that you are replacing the House of Representatives only. If you throw out the Senate to form a unicameral legislature at the federal level, the Union would split apart pretty quickly as the less populated states' interests are ignored, or groups of like-minded states see how they could be better off as their own country.


This is kinda comprised of two opposing ideas so you may want to revisit it.

Let me rephrase them as one question. Who will be producing and disseminating the information needed for the citizen-legislature to make rational policy decisions?

But why not take lobbying and political contributions totally out.

You cannot, you can only change the pressure point they will be directed towards.

There is a percentage of morons in the world.. but this percentage will easily be dealt with through over all voting.

This is not a matter of intelligence vs. stupidity. The issue is that the government's scope is so expansive, with so many discrete areas, each of those areas having their own nuances and intricacies, that no one has the ability, much less the time, to keep up with it. Each member of the House of Representatives has an average of 14 staff paid staff members working for them, and lord knows how many bright young interns are running around. Even then a congressman really only knows what he's* doing in the committees/subcommittees that he is involved in.** As a whole, there were ~24,000 [paid] staff members working under the US congress in 2000.http://legacy.c-span.org/questions/weekly35.asp

How will this work in your new government? Obviously every citizen can't hire his own. Will something resembling the existing structure be preserved, but relegated t a new or preexisting bureaucracy, or is wiki-style group think gonna be involved (think about the so called "echo chamber" of rightist/leftist media, where people are only getting info from those who agree with them).

*Apology for using 'he, his, etc.' rather than a more gender inclusive phrasing, I'm going all romance language on this shit and making a mixed group masculine by default. I don't wanna slight the ladies or reinforce the glass ceiling.

**Hence the usefulness of a parties to unite the influence and knowledge of many persons with a similar vision for the country, and direct the government as a whole towards enacting that vision. Something to consider taking advantage of in your system, though parties necessarily create "problems" of patronage and exchanging favors for funding.

So I think your opinion of the masses about their ability to do what is right is based in unfounded ideas and your trust in the representatives body's worth is just insane.

If there were such a clear cut right and wrong in policy making, the world woulda figured it out by now. Most of the time, the wisdom/validity of specific policies cannot be assessed beyond how well they align with an individual's answer to the question "What kind of country do you want America to be?" And even when things do get sorta objective, it often requires a long period of time to develop an academic understanding of the matter, and legislation passed in the meantime may have obfuscated the impact of the original bill whose merits we were trying to evaluate.


I'm all over the place, basically I'm saying: let's see your new constitution. I worry that this whole direct democracy of yours is built upon slogans and buzzwords, rather than a real understanding of how the legislative branch of our government works. I don't mean this as an insult (you seem like a smart dude, and you care about the world to boot), we all have our fair share of convictions justified in truthiness.



Oh, and does your state have more directly democratic options like we do here in California? Just curious.

danki said:
I think Switzerland or some other Scandinavian country has one where they vote on everything.

Switzerland engages in an uncommon degree of direct democracy (and it is not a Scandinavian country). I recall myself having problems with their system, but I've slipped into ignorance on the subject. If anyone wants to do some reading, and give us basic rundown, that'd be great.
 
Last edited:
Lot of good points. The people did write the Marijuana legalization in colorado. But i dont think there is such interest or general knowledge in so many other aspects that are addressed by the electorate.

I was aware that a direct democracy was being undertaken or at least proposed somewhere in europe. But I was more making the point that we are technologically advanced enough to not need a representative body to actually vote for us, but as they do much more than this it was not a whole solution to the frustration we are having with them on so many issues.

I was not saying scrap the system of checks and balances inherent in the three branches, but instead saying that we are able to now vote for ourselves.

Given the complexity of the current system this does not sound like it would be a feasible approach, as you have said it has large holes in it.

Why not then have a clear path for citizens to be able to introduce their own legislation to be voted on by the population. As this seems to have had positive consequences in Colorado they may then end up changing the country and the world for the better this seems like it may be a good idea, despite how unrealistic it may seem.

Just like a petition, on a proposed bill of legislation, with a certain number of verifiable signatures and the matter is put to a vote the next time the country has an election?
 
Top