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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

What is the biggest potential drug-related harm for Australian users?

As the title suggests, I'm interested in gauging what the most serious harms members of the bluelight community perceive to be associated with drug use in Australia (as well as New Zealand or anywhere else for that matter - but focusing on Australasia)

... good post ...

What are the biggest risks of using drugs in Australasia - and what (if anything) can we suggest or work towards to reduce these risks?

Personally, I think the biggest harms that I've seen with my own eyes come from the "War on Drugs" and the laws that punish users. Law enforcement choosing the easy targets plays a big role in this, which is probably a symptom of quotas more than anything else. Filling the courts with minor drug offenders, often poor addicts or casual users who are then left with a criminal record, making life even more difficult for them in the future. Way to marginalize an already marginalized part of society.

For a user who is physically addicted to a substance, such as heroin (I pulled that one out of thin air) we should be the last place the law should look when trying to combat crime. Arresting us does what exactly in the grand scheme of things? You think nobody else will want heroin because they heard that a friend was caught with a gram or two? Generally speaking, users don't have friends in high places or a powerful union that can defeat even the most obvious of heinous crimes (like police, celebrities, politicians etc.), or money to help us through the court system, we're left with court appointed lawyers, which often get their money from the government. So do the police. Do you see a conflict of interest there? I do.

I believe that locking people up, or forcing them into rehab, or putting them in a position where if they use drugs they will be sent to jail is simply morally wrong, and the wrong approach to take if you actually want to fix the problem. Users shouldn't be dealt with so harshly, most of the people I know well enough who use drugs often, or are addicted to them have very good reasons for doing so. Mental health usually plays a major part. Physical or sexual abuse often plays a part. The fact is, there are many, many different reasons people end up physically dependent to drugs like heroin, and usually nobody cares why they started or why the keep doing it even though they are in trouble with the law. Nobody stops to think that maybe they are a person too. Maybe there is something you don't know about them that has made them turn to drugs to mask the pain that they feel every day. Of course, there are other people who have got themselves into the position without being physically, mentally, emotionally or in any way abused, but that doesn't mean that they are worth less than those who have, nor does it mean that they have never had a problem in their lives. It's always complicated when it comes to "why", and there's never going to be a one size fits all "fix" to the problem of addiction. Every single addict has their own history, their own problems and their own life which needs to be taken into account before the underlying issues can ever be attacked. That costs money though, so we won't be seeing that.

The fact is punishing these people is simply giving them more reason to use the drugs they are drawn to. Often they have been punished their whole lives anyway, it's nothing new to them but it's certainly, without a doubt harming them.

We really need to start looking at why people are using the drugs in the first place. It's not going to be an easy answer for everybody because everybody is different and every situation needs to have an individually tailored solution. Throwing someone who has already been through a life of hell into jail, or forcing them into rehab is not going to fix them. It's naive and against well established evidence to the contrary. We should also consider more humane treatment, maintenance and legal responses to those caught up in the court system.

Punishing addicts is never going to work.
 
Personally, I think the biggest harms that I've seen with my own eyes come from the "War on Drugs" and the laws that punish users. Law enforcement choosing the easy targets plays a big role in this, which is probably a symptom of quotas more than anything else. Filling the courts with minor drug offenders, often poor addicts or casual users who are then left with a criminal record, making life even more difficult for them in the future. Way to marginalize an already marginalized part of society.

Sorry, I respectfully disagree but am open to debate. From my experience, it makes no sense for police to target addicts or casual users. The courts are backed up and prisons are full so I doubt they would waste resources as such. In any case, no cop is going to go through the groundwork for a warrant to arrest someone who does heroin in the privacy of their own home when it doesn't affect anyone else. The courts are filled with drug addicts/users normally because they break some other law such as stealing, assaulting or distributing to feed their habit, neglecting their children, endangering others by operating a vehicle under the influence, etc. Laws for merely using drugs are rarely enforced in isolation so much so that I didn't even know they existed until a couple weeks ago. I was always under the impression that at the very least possession was required. Anyway, locking drug addicts/users up or forcing them into rehab might not be ideal in terms of their drug problems but using the same line of argument there are many people who have mental health issues or have suffered abuse and are not breaking the law.

The court is meant to be an independent arbitrator and there are mechanisms such as rehab and discretion in sentencing, etc. installed to tailor for different situations but on the other hand there has to be some kind of guide. If the court was able to make decisions on a case by case basis with no precedent, going to court would be a lucky dip. These laws are in place for our protection. Addicts who break the law should be held accountable like everyone else.

I think if we are talking about addressing the problem of addiction, it needs to be at a way earlier stage.
 
Ensta that is very true. Unless you are a trafficker or a producer you are not going to see jail time for using drugs. Most if not all drug addicts appear in court for burglary, assault and other antisocial crime that their habit instigates. Fines, drug diversion and rehab are actually a slap on the wrist, design to discourage not so much punish. Criminal records for drug procession do play a role in limiting travel and job opportunities but no more than the actual addiction itself will create.
 
just in the Western world in general, excessive use of drugs, which usually leads to some type of health issue, whether mental or physical, due to a lack of education seems to be the main issue; Westerners usually HAVE money to spend on drugs and have leisure time to do so; also, with access to the internet, more people today than ever can access drugs than could ever before - while people before would have been too embarrassed to deal with the black-market face to face, now they can do it 'anonymously' from the comfort of their homes; but misinformation in the form of drug propaganda is literally bombarded on most people from very early grade school - all illegal drugs are bad; the DARE program, at least in America, etc. It's just a huge cycle of bullshit related to the war on drugs- scare people first, but, because of our psychology, we're going to want what we're explicitly not supposed to do - and then because we have greater access to drugs than ever before, voila

i feel like if western nations in general don't change their tune within the next half century a good segment of our collective western populations will have succumbed to drug use; it's already happening, it's not going to get better

and if I was going to pinpoint anything, it'd be mental health; some are scarred physically from drug use, and these cases are generally worse in appearance, but regardless of what drugs you're using and how much, if you do certain illicit drugs for more than a year or two, you're probably going to change your fundamental psychology at least somewhat...it's just cause and effect in my opinion...

so yeah, education is key IMO - a good number of people in this world use drugs of some sort - COFFEE, ALCOHOL, CIGARETTES, etc. If we could just be taught firm moderation with the expectation that we probably will use drugs, we'd be better off in the West - there's just too much temptation, baby
 
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Sorry, I respectfully disagree but am open to debate. From my experience, it makes no sense for police to target addicts or casual users. The courts are backed up and prisons are full so I doubt they would waste resources as such. In any case, no cop is going to go through the groundwork for a warrant to arrest someone who does heroin in the privacy of their own home when it doesn't affect anyone else. The courts are filled with drug addicts/users normally because they break some other law such as stealing, assaulting or distributing to feed their habit, neglecting their children, endangering others by operating a vehicle under the influence, etc. Laws for merely using drugs are rarely enforced in isolation so much so that I didn't even know they existed until a couple weeks ago. I was always under the impression that at the very least possession was required. Anyway, locking drug addicts/users up or forcing them into rehab might not be ideal in terms of their drug problems but using the same line of argument there are many people who have mental health issues or have suffered abuse and are not breaking the law.

The court is meant to be an independent arbitrator and there are mechanisms such as rehab and discretion in sentencing, etc. installed to tailor for different situations but on the other hand there has to be some kind of guide. If the court was able to make decisions on a case by case basis with no precedent, going to court would be a lucky dip. These laws are in place for our protection. Addicts who break the law should be held accountable like everyone else.

I think if we are talking about addressing the problem of addiction, it needs to be at a way earlier stage.

The thing you may not understand about addiction is getting arrested once, twice, three times for posession is not a deterrant. Eventually, you are going to end up in jail, or on a corrections program where you are set up to fail. Users do get arrested, users do see jail, and you don't understand it unless you live it and see it every day.
 
I'm confused about what Ensta is disagreeing with in regards to opi8's post. It looks to me like they're saying the same thing...

Sorry if I missed something obvious, but it looks like both people are saying that drug users should not be targeted for merely being drug users.

:?
 
Mental illness brought on by crystal meth is becoming an everyday thing in my suburb when a year and a half ago I had to travel to look for crystal. It was all paste speed which had next to no impact on the community funnily enough.
 
I'm confused about what Ensta is disagreeing with in regards to opi8's post. It looks to me like they're saying the same thing...

Sorry if I missed something obvious, but it looks like both people are saying that drug users should not be targeted for merely being drug users.

:?

Yeah i was a bit confused at first but I think opi8 is saying "drug users shouldn't be targeted.." whilst ensta is saying "drug users aren't targeted..."

I agree that mental illness is probably the greatest current risk at the moment... meth seems to be fairly insidious in this regard. I don't rate cannabis as a huge risk here, despite the so called evidence to the contrary; I only know one person that's "lost their shit" due to cannabis use and i've known plenty of heavy smokers.. Even then it was more likely regular mdma/stimulant use that contributed.

The stigma attached to drug use itself doesn't help at all whether it's seeking assistance when things go wrong, both emergencies and mental/physical health issues, discussing harm reduction or whatever. Being looked down upon as some kind of second class citizen simply because you like to do something that gives you pleasure is just ridiculous. Even discussing my drug use with my personal doctor, whom I trust and have great faith in, can leave me feeling a little shameful. Why are we only allowed to enjoy ourselves with state-sanctioned drugs like alcohol and tobacco? The sooner society grows up and accepts the terrible truth, the better.
 
Yeah i was a bit confused at first but I think opi8 is saying "drug users shouldn't be targeted.." whilst ensta is saying "drug users aren't targeted..."

I would say that police do target users more than they should in Aus. Case in point, sniffer dogs at festivals, dance parties, clubs and train stations.
History has shown this to be very ineffective at catching dealers. Meanwhile users in the know will easily avoid detection, leaving a few unfortunates to get caught, or worse, down all of their drugs when they see the dogs.

The two main areas of risk I personally have faced are both directly due to the illegality of my chosen substances.

The first area is legal. The risk of getting a criminal record for having a few pills or a bit of powder on me while very unlikely would not be good for my employment opportunities.

The second area is simply the probability of consuming some unknown substance instead of MDMA which is harmful and/or has undesired effects.
 
That's a very good point Juvenile about sniffer dogs at festivals.

My post was primarily about a physical dependance to opiods and the illegality of drugs themselves causes so many of the problems all drug users face.
 
Yeah bloody good point Juvenile.
To claim sniffer dogs in public places isnt targeting small time users is bullshit
 
Yeah but the developed Western world isn't the only place that has drug problems, we just specialize in it.

I read that north Korea may have the biggest meth problem in the world, it has to be researched more, they take it to suppress appetite and fatigue.
In south America, instead of Cocaine they often use Paco which is cocaine paste with dangerous cooking adulterants. That is even worse than cocaine.
fuck, ever hear of the Opium wars?
 
You should check out the slums in Kabul to really see heroin effects on addicts. No concerns about purity or adulterants there.
 
That's exactly my point. If heroin was dispensed by professionals, in known dosages, as has been done in numerous successful trials all over the world, you would almost instantly see the crime related to opiod use, including the crime of using itself, disappear. A lot of the negative affects of people's lives would disappear. Both you two don't seem to understand another point of view.

And you can't compare a developed western country to a country that has spent almost its entire history, especially recently, embattled in war.
 
And you can't see the albatross around your neck. You argue for freedom to be an addict an ignore the obvious fact that you are a slave to your drug. Having unlimited access to heroin doesn't set you free it only condemns you to slavery.
 
What's your point exactly??
Going to turn another thread into bickering and personal attacks?

Edit- this thread is asking people to discuss the harms they face personally in their daily lives.
Please respect that or don't comment.
 
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What about people who use insulin every day? Anti-depressants? Ant-psychotics? What is the difference?
 
Why do you take opiates and not antidepressants?

If given the choice would you advocate to your children the benefits of a heroin addiction?
 
I read that north Korea may have the biggest meth problem in the world, it has to be researched more, they take it to suppress appetite and fatigue.

Yeah pretty sure it used to be manufactured by the state. AFAIK they've not as involved in the drug trade as they used to be. It doesn't have a massive stigma there yet, kids use it to help them study.
 
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