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Lying vs. telling the truth

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FrogWarrior

Bluelighter
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Nov 10, 2013
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I'm in a bit of an altered state right now, so sorry in advance if my ability to formulate sentences isn't that good. We always hear that its best to be truthful. But sometimes I make the mistake of being too truthful and the result is family members get worried about me or I hurt peoples feelings. Sometimes it helps the person in the long run if you hurt their feelings because you point out their flaws that they need to see and then they can work on themselves, but in the former case I don't know if being honest is more often than not, the right thing to do. Do you think its best to tell family members you're doing good and all is well, when your in a bit of a shit spot, so that they will be happy and think all is well with you? I'm personally at peace with my own death (I'm not dying, what I mean is that I've made peace with my own death so I don't worry about myself like my family might) and it brings me comfort knowing that no matter what happens in life, I can always just die so nothing is really that bad, but I want to do good for others with my existence because I want things to be win win for everyone. With that in mind, I'll do my fuckin best, and shatter this bitch ass ego which cares about itself and not others. But for me to operate at my best, sometimes I need to be a bit self destructive (like when I'm on stimulants to be productive, or crazy psychedelic states to shatter my ego), and thats all good with me, I'm gonna die anyway.

Sorry to side track there, what I'm asking is do you think its best to tell people all is good with you, so that they will be happy and never worry about you, even when its not true.
 
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lol truth... I would love to speak truth only but that would be practicaly suicide,I would be kicked out,I wouldnt have job or single friend
 
related reading:

is it ok to lie sometimes to your SO?
Honesty

to me, when you lie to "save somebody's feelings" or "make it hurt less" or whatever rationalisation you're using for lying, you've basically saying "i don't respect/love/trust you enough to have your own response to this truth so i'll just decide for you that you can't handle it"

you're effectively saying that your right to decide what is and isn't right for them to hear is more important than their right to make that distinction themselves.

to me that's not how friends and family who respect, love and trust each other behave.

alasdair
 
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^ Could also be that due to past abuse and wounds, it's hard to trust people in general and therefore it has little to do with the actual person you are distrusting. The PTSD of abuse means one will dysfunctionally assume that people will want to harm instead of be compassionate and help, if you open up to them.

It's also completely possible that you know someone well enough to know that they can't handle certain information and therefore you need to practice containment. It's like sharing secrets... who do you know that has the maturity to handle the secret?

I do believe that withholding the truth is sometimes the most compassionate thing to do, based on where a person's development is at. Some people take things way, way too personally even though it has nothing to do with them.
 
DOB said:
lol truth... I would love to speak truth only but that would be practicaly suicide,I would be kicked out,I wouldnt have job or single friend
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The job part is unavoidable, but if pure honestly would cause you to lose all friends, then I think you need to work on your perception of others. Maybe you don't respect them enough. At the same time, it depends how you say it. If you're genuinely telling them something cuz it'll help them in the long run, that means you respect them and have their best interest in mind, if you're obvious about it, then you won't lose any friends cuz a friend that helps you overcome your flaws is a good friend. I read a book on body language, and after that it started to become real easy to see who are real friends and who aren't. Its pretty awesome. I can use it to test myself too. To put it simply, a real friend sees your success as his/her own success, whereas a fake friend won't care or might even be jealous of your success. There are way more tests than that, but thats the one I like to use. This is probably common sense for most people, but I got a mild case of autism so I don't spot these things naturally, its only after reading about it that I can look out for them. When it comes to things people can't change, like their physical appearance, I don't know if its good to be honest, cuz theres nothing they can do to solve it. So I suppose in those cases, its best not to be too honest.

alasdairm said:
related reading:

is it ok to lie sometimes to your SO?
Honesty

to me, when you lie to "save somebody's feelings" or "make it hurt less" or whatever rationalisation you're using for lying, you've basically saying "i don't respect/love/trust you enough to have your own response to this truth so i'll just decide for you that you can't handle it"

you're effectively saying that your right to decide what is and isn't right for them to hear is more important than their right to make that distinction themselves.

to me that's not how friends and family who respect, love and trust each other behave.

alasdair
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree. Thats my experience at least. Also, its awkward to bring up bad things to someone, nobody wants to do it so someone whos not a real friend just wont bother. A real friend will deal will face the awkwardness and tell you. But this is when the truth relates directly to the other person. If the truth is about yourself, lets say for example you got start taking amphetamines temporarily (everyone quits in the end, but some people think a drug habit is a terminal illness) and you know that your mother would be worried to the point that it would be bad for her well being. In that case, I think its best to just keep it to yourself. Of if you decide to go to the Colombian Amazon and do ayahuasca, knowing that its gonna be a dangerous, instead of worrying your mother by laying it all out, would it be better to tell her your just gonna be staying at a holiday resort in Peru or something. If you end up dying, then she'll feel bad about it either way, but if you come back safe and sound, then her worrying was pointless.

This body langauge thing is awesome. After reading that book, now I look out for things like how a person reacts to my success. I deferred my last year of college, so I'm in a new class this year, and I respect everyone there, but now I can watch for signs to see if that respect is reciprocal. I'll watch and see how a person reacts to my successes and failures. Fake friends say things like "you lucky bastard", "ya fucker" when you share a success, and they laugh when you share a failure. Real friends congratulate you on your success, and don't like hearing about your failures. I started watching myself too, and behave the same way. I like hearing about my friends successes. Whats weird is that one fake friend I made has become pretty close, and even though all my body language is of a real friend, he still remains a fake friend. He doesn't cause any problems or anything, its kind of a mutual beneficial relationship we have but I can't trust him, and its shit being about people who can't trust.
 
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Foreigner said:
^ Could also be that due to past abuse and wounds, it's hard to trust people in general and therefore it has little to do with the actual person you are distrusting. The PTSD of abuse means one will dysfunctionally assume that people will want to harm instead of be compassionate and help, if you open up to them.

It's also completely possible that you know someone well enough to know that they can't handle certain information and therefore you need to practice containment. It's like sharing secrets... who do you know that has the maturity to handle the secret?

I do believe that withholding the truth is sometimes the most compassionate thing to do, based on where a person's development is at. Some people take things way, way too personally even though it has nothing to do with them.
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Yeah I agree, in my experience sometimes withholding truth is the most compassionate thing to do. Once I told my granny that I had a psychotic episode and it was a huge mistake cuz she worried about my for weeks. Unfortunately though, she worries about me all the time, she says she can't help it, but i feel like its a sign that she doens't respect me, cuz if she did she'd know I'm capable of handling myself, I'm not some feeble, vulnerable kid anymore (I grew up with my granny, so that image is probably still in her head).

On top of PTSD, another complicated case is repressed memories. Some people who have repressed memories, if they were to suddenly remember, then they'd become depressed and maybe even suicidal because when the brain suppresses memories like that, its to protect you. I think things like MDMA therapy can work wonders for that, since they allow the person to relive the incident in a safe environment and see that its not so bad, then the subconscious problem is resolved. If you just straight up told them what happened out of the blue, I don't think that'd help cuz they might not be able to resolve it in their heads.
 
Definitely. Not euphemisms, they just insult the intelligence of the person, but saying it in ways where you lay out the path that the person can take to overcome the perceieved flaw. It also helps to tell the person that you use to have the same flaw, I tend to take peoples advice when they tell me its a flaw they overcame in the past. I wish I was better with words, cuz I find it real hard to bring up a flaw I see, without the other person getting angry and retaliating.
 
I used to think you had to always tell the truth to everyone because god knew, but then I worked out that there were ways around this such as muttering extra bits under your breath or refraining from saying anything at all. I hate it when I'm asked a question that I don't want to answer or don't know the answer too or the answer is long or doesn't make sense to another. No, you don't have to always tell the truth. you have the right to remain silent.
 
^ I agree with that.

"Honesty is the best policy"

If your going to lie it will catch up to you. Lying tends to get like a spider web eventually you will be that insect that gets caught up in your web of lies. With that being said if you lie it's useless it ends up hurting someone else once they find out/if they find out. And then you tarnish your character you'll be that "shady guy" the one no one wants to be around because your not trust worthy of relationships and so on.

Sorry if I'm off topic I was lazy & did not read your whole post! Ill re-read it later on.
 
there's always a flipside, IMO. To start with, this waking reality is seen as less real than our dreams by Buddhists. What we perceive through our senses is not, technically, real. This realization points to how problematic an idea such as 'truth' is, as this life/dimension is wholly subjective. For example, nothing objective can be contained in words, as we as children were automatized into believing that words had meaning to begin with...just bringing this conversation down to the fundamentals here...
 
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sometimes i say exactly how i'm feeling other times i don't and sometimes i mix the two up
 
slimvictor said:
Telling the truth, but phrasing it in a way that won't hurt the person, is a real skill.
I see that as the best way to do things, though I am not always successful...
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I agree with this.
The age old wisdom is lies corrupt the mind because it requires so much resource to remember which lies are which. Leads to anxiety, paranoia, etc, etc.
 
"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise."

Most of these people have your best interests at heart. They don't always have all the context, though. If people get concerned about you, think about why - maybe you're saying concerning things. If there's certain things you know that push their buttons, avoid bringing them up if at all possible, but at the same time don't force yourself to be alone if you feel you need to reach out. The fact of the matter is it's not healthy for most people to be too self-destructive on a regular basis.
 
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