MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support)

[ro4eva]

I haven't posted here in a while but I will say it's been a few months since I started on a 10mg dose of Lexapro. I have now adjusted downwards to 7.5mg and still feel good. It's been a month since I dropped it to 7.5mg. In a few months when this nasty winter passes I'll be readjusting to 5mg and from there hopefully coming off it entirely.

The problem didn't go away completely when I got on Lexapro but 90% of it did. It also helped me stop thinking about the issue 100% of the time. Because if you're feeling fine or at least much better, you automatically won't be thinking as much as you used to. Not to say I don't think about it all, I still put 50% of my thoughts into it, but it's no longer 100% as I did before the meds. And that is the key to getting better.

When I started on the SSRI, I slowly got better week after week. Very slowly, but there as an improvement. First few weeks I was very doubtful, but then I realized "THIS IS REALLY WORKING". I used to get VERY VERY TIRED as soon as I thought of anything having to do with my anxiety. I mean, just a single thought would make me yawn. After getting on Lexapro it took like 3 months for that to finally go away.

I'm very glad that it appears that an SSRI may have had a therapeutic effect for you.

The way in which you are describing the improvement in your symptoms sounds very similar to mine.

When I first started Zoloft, I was very afraid of the medication because I had a history of bad reactions to other SSRIs (one reaction landed me in the ER). And I told my doctor that I wanna be started on low dose, and if it appears that my body can tolerate it after a couple of weeks, then, I will increase to the recommended dose.

So that's what I did. And sure enough, after about 2 months on the drug, i had finally begun to notice that there was a significant improvement in my symptoms when compared to day 1.

For a long time, I was extremely skeptical about SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, etc. And because of that, what helped me to accept the possibility that Zoloft had a VERY SLOW therapeutic effect on me was mainly two things:

1 - For several months after my bad roll, I had decided to wait it out, with absolutely no improvement - even though I stopped using every drug known to man, and made a ton of healthy lifestyle changes.

2 - Since starting the Zoloft, it was recommended to me by my psychiatrist that I keep a daily journal about my symptoms and their severity from a scale of 1 to 10. I went ahead with this suggestion, and was stunned to re-read (for the first time) that journal back from the beginning (day 1 to day 62). I guess that because of the amount of time that had passed, and because I had been trying exceptionally hard to keep myself focused on other things, and the very slow nature of how an SSRI is thought to work, my conclusion is that the changes were so gradual that I didn't really notice all that much.

That's the shittiest thing about SSRIs, IME at least. They take so fucking long to start working. And even after they do start working, it is usually recommended you continue to stay on them for a little while longer.

There's also the possibility of sexual dysfunction, tardive dysphoria, thoughts/feelings of suicide, severe manic episodes, weight gain, sugar/carb cravings, and who knows what else.

We live in a society that's so fast paced, that we're used to and/or we expect quick solutions to issues.

"Are you hungry, but you don't have time to spend some time on some delicious home-made food because you'll be late for work? No problem! There's a McDonald's a couple of blocks away, and it's open 24/7! I'm lovin' it!"

All I can say is start on an SSRI. Start on a small dose (5mg) and see if that does ANYTHING. I saw a TINY improvement, so then moved up to 10mg and realized that was a good dosage. But I could've done more, such as 20mg and even went beyond the recommended dosage.

I think this is bad advice (especially the part I formatted as bold), sorry.

That doesn't mean I'm correct - it's just my opinion.

Some people can have some really nasty reactions to SSRIs. And I'd imagine that to have them start out with a high dosage would make it more difficult for a bad reaction requiring emergency medical treatment to be treated.

 

[MindOverMatter1]

I don't think that you will ever recover 100% - hell the first time I rolled, my math abilities immediately and permanently went out the window.

I'm not saying this isn't true but it is hard to believe. What are your first roll like? Your math abilities should have come back unless you rolled again consecutively weeks/months after that then yea they would have trouble coming back.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I'm not saying this isn't true but it is hard to believe. What are your first roll like? Your math abilities should have come back unless you rolled again consecutively weeks/months after that then yea they would have trouble coming back.

I was rolling MDA at least 12 hours pretty much every weekend, every other weekend at the most, from February 2004 until September 2004 at least and then I did it pretty much every two weeks after. My first time with MDMA was around 2006 or so. The biggest break I had early on was 3 to 4 weeks and I would go on benders with them. First drop around 9PM, last around 6AM then stay up and party all the next day.

If you want to talk about abuse, you just have to talk to me.

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

There truly isn't any evidence one way or the other which is unfortunate. I don't think that you will ever recover 100% - hell the first time I rolled, my math abilities immediately and permanently went out the window.

I'm talking more about the emotional and psychological effects. Most of the cognitive deficits are likely to be quite long-lasting, if not permanent. I have pretty much accepted that at this point.

Yeah, this is amazing to me too. This discussion is quite inconsistent throughout all the threads. You've said numerous times that a 100% recovery is possible, even in cases stemming from severe abuse. I understand that your case is different because of your history of drug/alcohol abuse and SSRI meds, but cognitive problems is reported in almost every long term comedown - induced by everything from half a pill to long term abuse. Surely the prognosis for someone with cognitive problems due to 100mg MDMA would differ from someone who has a history of abuse with the drug?

Maybe I just want clarity to whether you are talking specifically about your own recovery, or in general. It isn't generally agreed upon that "the first time one rolls ones math abilities goes out the window". I am a math teacher myself, and I can attest to the fact that my math abilities, indeed went out the window, only to return a few weeks later. I am not sure whether they are back to 100%, mostly because of my fluctuating remaining symptoms (brain fog), but they have steadily improved for 2,5 months, and I am expecting them to return to anything from 98 to 100%. (As has been reported in a few success stories).

If the damage is truly due to neuronal injury, then the prognosis for recovery depends on age and extent and location of injury in the brain. Old people with a stroke in their motor cortex may never recover any function at all. On the other hand, you can take out literally a full hemisphere of the brain in a child, and expect full recovery. It really depends on your brain plasticity and neurotrophic capabilities, which is variable in everyone, as well as the specific capabilities you need to recover. A mathematician working for the NSA May never recover recover enough to do his job again, whereas a burger flipper at mcdonalds might feel normal enough to resume his usual life in a month. Therefore, I don't think we can safely say everyone with MDMA damage will recover given enough time, even years

It would be interesting to find out whether the condition actually stems from NEURONAL DAMAGE, or if it is a "mere" chemical imbalance, down or up-regulated 5-HT receptors, depleted enzymes or other chemicals essential to neurotransmitter synthesis. Or if it is something akin to PTSD. This is super important to me. There is so many naive and misinformed people on this forum. "Your brain can heal from any damage if you give it time and abstinence xD xoxox" kind of stuff. No, if you've really sustained neuronal injury, axon detachment or "dead" neurons, you won't really return to 100%. Maybe something close to 100% if you are really lucky.

I'm hedging my bets on a chemical imbalance or something of that nature. In my case specifically, I've experienced all my cognitive faculties at 100, or close to 100% during this comedown. As I've said many times due to the fluctuating nature of my remaining symptoms, I can go from feeling 95% cogntively, back to feeling like I'm at 75%. One thing is for sure though, and that makes me very positive, even when I'm having a bad day my cognivite abilities is HEAPS better than it was earlier in the comedown. I can't escape the fact that I have, no matter how bad a day i might have now, improved noticeably since earlier in my comedown.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I'm not saying this isn't true but it is hard to believe. What are your first roll like? Your math abilities should have come back unless you rolled again consecutively weeks/months after that then yea they would have trouble coming back.

I'm on my phone at the moment so this is going to be a quick response but when people are in recovery, responses tend to be all over the board. That's the problem with recovery. I've been extremely depressed lately, suicidal even, so my outlook is much less positive than it would be on a day when I am having a "window" which is probably coming across in my posts.

I am much less convinced that a 100% recovery is possible these days but who knows if that is depression to the extreme or legitimate acceptance that I'll never be the same. It is pretty much impossible to tell because we are all going to be biased based on how we feel at the time.

As to my appointment today, doctor started me on Lamictal and put me back on trazodone since I'm not sleeping. I like having a psychiatrist who listens to my concerns. Lamictal was pretty benign and I've always had a good response to trazodone so if it doesn't help it at the least is unlikely to hurt.

The really frustrating thing is that once again, my blood work is flawless. All of these symptoms and no sign of it. My Vitamin D levels are only slightly low even though I don't ever go outside, that was the only thing that she had to say. Everything else came back perfect. In fact I'm healthier than most people who eat better and are more active than I am. Yet I FEEL like I'm going to collapse at any minute.

My pulse was 86 today. Considering it was 120 last time, I guess my holding at 7.5mg of Valium is working better than I expected.

Edit: one last thing... My rolling damage was done by MDA more than anything else. MDA is significantly more neurotoxic than MDMA is and I was seriously abusing it. Myself and my group of friends would easily go through 6-8 MDA pills AVERAGE every Saturday and the most I ever took in a sitting was between 15 and 20 (we know I took 15 but I had 23 in my possession that night and I know I gave away two). Considering that pills hit me twice as hard as everyone else, abuse is an understatement. We didn't worry about long term consequences back in 2004.

 

[Dawglaw]

I eventually treated my comedown as anxiety and I have 100% fully recovered. Caffeine was TERRIBLE for me, which in hindsight makes sense as caffeine has been proven to aggravate anxiety.

There is a lot of good advice on this thread. My only recommendation is to not take anything, especially 5HTP, without clearing it with a doctor.

I also echo above, once you can get the idea of a comedown off your mind, your quality of life increases. I think some of you are stuck in a thought loop where every waking moment you are thinking about a comedown. If you feel shitty one day you immediately correlate feeling shitty with your comedown which makes you feel worse.

I have been comedown free for over a year. I still feel like shit some days or feel a bit depressed on others. That is just how life is. Some days are great some days are ok. It is not your comedown, it is life.

Once you can free your mind from consonantly thinking about your comedown, you will feel a lot better. CBT helped me immensely with "accepting" and moving on. Medication, under medical supervision, may also be an option if you are stuck.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I also echo above, once you can get the idea of a comedown off your mind, your quality of life increases. I think some of you are stuck in a thought loop where every waking moment you are thinking about a comedown. If you feel shitty one day you immediately correlate feeling shitty with your comedown which makes you feel worse.

Once you can free your mind from consonantly thinking about your comedown, you will feel a lot better. CBT helped me immensely with "accepting" and moving on. Medication, under medical supervision, may also be an option if you are stuck.

This is exactly why I have an issue with MED having recovery posts in the general forum. I'll have days where I'm feeling great and then I'll come on here and read this and other comedown threads and it will all flare right back up. I don't know why the decision was made to keep such conversations here instead of The Dark Side but when you read all of these things about bad comedowns, anxiety, depression, etc., its triggering which can totally cause a re-emergence of symptoms or get you thinking about new ones that you never had before but someone posted about. Its insanity.

Congratulations on your recovery though, that's awesome!

 

[THeW0rm]

MK77 what are/were your symptoms?

 

[MagickalKat777]

Before MDXX, I had untreated bipolar disorder (this is a guess but its probably quite likely looking at my self-medication over the years).

I had my first anxiety attack ever after my first few times using the drug but my first panic attack came 8 months after my first use (it was my 20th birthday party now that I think back). From there, I developed the full anxiety spectrum and eventually had to go on meds.

The anxiety is my main issue. I have a ton of others but I can't pin them on MDXX because of the fact that I quite likely had untreated bipolar disorder before I began using MDXX drugs.

I should note that when I started rolling, I STOPPED doing everything but occasionally drinking. Before I started rolling, I was doing every research chemical I could get my hands on and was fucked up at least 5 times a week on something. I suffered no serious consequences from any of that but when I started rolling, I quickly started noticing a lot of symptoms. Anxiety, paranoia, tachycardia, dysphoric mood, rapid cycling of depression and mania, extreme bouts of insomnia, my creativity pretty much completely disappeared (I used to get on the computer and bang out poetry, now I wouldn't know where to begin), I tend to be very apathetic and entirely disinterested in just about everything (including sex - and I always had a more than healthy sexual appetite but now I don't even have it when I'm manic), and I've developed severe depression.

I find it quite important to point this out though - the pills that we were getting in Denver in 2004 were horrible. MDA with caffeine would be the best you could hope for with MDA, meth, and caffeine combo pills being the most common. MDA and meth is a knockout combo in terms of neurotoxicity and our reckless dosing habits likely contributed a LOT to the problems I and others in my circle of friends have now.

 

[THeW0rm]

does your libido fluctuate. I'm sorry to be grilling you all about such a touchy subject, but this is by far the worst aspect of what I'm going through. I have zero sexual appetite.

 

[THeW0rm]

Does your libido fluctuate? I'm sorry to be grilling you all about such a touchy subject on a public forum, but my lack of sexual appetite is by far the worst aspect of what I'm going through. If I could recover that aspect of myself I could live with the anhedonia/insomnia for the rest of my life and be happy as a clam.

 

[MagickalKat777]

My sex drive is completely non-existent now. Even when I'm full blown manic, I still don't have any interest in sex. I've been single since 2011 and I don't have much desire to not be single either.

Considering that I was previously insatiable... yeah, its a big change. Maybe its necessary right now though. Who knows.

 

[ro4eva]

^ With respect to your uncomfortable awareness of your heartbeat, have you given any thought about whether the elevation above sea level at which you live in Denver could be exacerbating the symptom?

Also, back when my heartbeat used to hound me constantly, I found that if I were to lay down on my back (on my bed or couch), I could do a breathing exercise which somehow made the sensation completely go away for at least a couple of hours.

What you gotta do is - while laying down as aforementioned, close your eyes and try to relax every muscle in your body, and start to slowly breathe in through your nostrils and don't stop until your lungs feel like they're overfilled to capacity with air. Once you get to this point, hold your breath for at least 8 seconds, then, slowly exhale until cannot exhale whatsoever any longer. Once you get to this point, hold your breath again for at least 8 seconds, then repeat the process at least 5 more times. Once you're done, continue to remain there for at least a few minutes - with all your muscles still relaxed.

You may feel a little light-headed, especially if you inhale and exhale too quickly - usually I try to time myself so that it takes around 8 seconds to inhale and another 8 seconds to exhale. But, it might just help you with the pounding heartbeat.

 

[cooldude9111]

Can't believe it's possible to get hooked on MDMA... I guess you can get hooked on anything, but it's just so rare with Emp's like MDMA.

 

[Dawglaw]

ro4eva and MagicKat - Anxiety can absolutely crush your libido. Who wants to get down when they are more concerned with their strange feelings and if they will ever go away?

 

[MagickalKat777]

^ With respect to your uncomfortable awareness of your heartbeat, have you given any thought about whether the elevation above sea level at which you live in Denver could be exacerbating the symptom?

I've thought about it and I think that what is likely happening in my case is that my heart is getting stronger than it used to be. I seem to remember when I was kid that my strong heart beat would go throughout my body, I just wasn't upset by it because I always felt it. In reality what is likely happening is my abstinence from drugs is strengthening my heart. The past few days I've been practicing lying on my back and not letting myself get upset about it. Desensitization, if you will.

I am not yet ready to try meditation and breathing exercises. Those actually became a panic trigger quite awhile ago so I'll have to go slowly with those.

Yes, the elevation could easily be contributing. I mean we are a mile above sea level here. With that said, I may be moving to the west coast later this year. I'm not entirely convinced that trading the smog for elevation is going to be helpful though

Can't believe it's possible to get hooked on MDMA... I guess you can get hooked on anything, but it's just so rare with Emp's like MDMA.

You can get a psychological addiction to anything. I'm still too embarrassed to admit all of the things I've been addicted to.

ro4eva and MagicKat - Anxiety can absolutely crush your libido. Who wants to get down when they are more concerned with their strange feelings and if they will ever go away?

Oh totally. I've actually had anxiety attacks after sex before. But I've always had a strong sex drive. I was always known as a total hornball and ready to go (in one way or another) 24/7. I am not necessarily complaining about the slowing of my libido, I'm just pointing it out.

Well I took the first dose of Lamictal last night and then proceeded to get the best sleep I've had in months. Just a 25mg pill put me out and I slept fantastically. I'm going to go slow slow SLOW with the taper up though because of the rash risk but if I go slow, it looks like I'll likely tolerate it quite well. I wasn't groggy in the morning either unlike how trazodone, mirtazapine, and doxylamine leave me feeling.

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

So brain damage and chemical depletion can result in exactly the same symptoms?

It is interesting to note that the people who go through a comedown for a few days up to a few weeks, often have exactly the same symptoms as many who needs months and months.

Edit: I have no problem with accepting that a single recreational dose of MDMA can cause neuronal damage. I'm just not yet convinced that it's the culprit of my current symptoms, all of which is fluctuating, and rapidly on the mend at the 2,5 month mark.

Edit2:

This may be why some studies have shown resolution of MDMA induced mood disorders (regulated by amygdala/hypothalamus) within 2 years, but cognitive difficulties (regulated by prefrontal cortex) can persist for much longer.

Could you link me the abstract of these studies?

Also could you enlighten me as to the meaning of "neurotoxic effects" exactly? It seems to imply everything from axon detachment, to receptor down-regulation or altered gene expression.

 

[ro4eva]

I've thought about it and I think that what is likely happening in my case is that my heart is getting stronger than it used to be. I seem to remember when I was kid that my strong heart beat would go throughout my body, I just wasn't upset by it because I always felt it. In reality what is likely happening is my abstinence from drugs is strengthening my heart. The past few days I've been practicing lying on my back and not letting myself get upset about it. Desensitization, if you will.

I am not yet ready to try meditation and breathing exercises. Those actually became a panic trigger quite awhile ago so I'll have to go slowly with those.

Oh. Well, perhaps it would be best to at least copy and paste what I wrote into a text file, and to save that file in a folder on your computer (I named mine "To Do List") where you could continue to add things you might wanna try in the future - especially stuff that would fall under alternative medicine (stuff that an average psychiatrist tends to know little about, or, knows about but doesn't think it works). This is what I did after I got sick. And things that did end up trying and didn't work, I cut and pasted into a separate folder which I titled "Fail".

That's terrible by the way - for breathing exercises to be a trigger for panic attacks. Ouch.

Yes, the elevation could easily be contributing. I mean we are a mile above sea level here. With that said, I may be moving to the west coast later this year. I'm not entirely convinced that trading the smog for elevation is going to be helpful though

If you get the chance, and you don't mind possibly really hot weather, I find a really good place - with respect to smog-free, low humidity, dry but very breathable air is Phoenix, Arizona. Unfortunately, it gets really hot down there during the summer months. I mean like - if you don't have air conditioning and a pool during the summer months in Arizona, God help you.

Last time I went to visit, the first day we were there, the temperature peaked at 118F.

You can get a psychological addiction to anything. I'm still too embarrassed to admit all of the things I've been addicted to.

Why do you find it embarrassing? Are you concerned that your loved ones will begin to judge you or treat you differently - possibly in a patronizing and/or condescending manner?

I used to be very uncomfortable in relation to talking to family and relatives about my drug habits, because I expected that doing so would shatter any trust between us.

--------------------------------

P.S:

Have you ever tried using any phenazepam or etizolam? I bought like 500mg of phenazepam about a year ago, but never bothered to use it as I have a small mountain of skipped (or forgot to take) Xanax doses/pills. And I've been keeping it stored in a cool, dark, air-tight place next to a bag of silica in an effort to keep the drug from losing its potency.

If I had the ability to do so, I would provide everyone who's in withdrawal (especially benzos and opioids) with a maintenance dose of a pharmaceutical drug, completely free of charge, in order to ease their suffering. Because I've been there myself countless times, and I wouldn't wish such suffering upon (probably) anyone - although I'm fairly confident that perhaps certain individuals might possibly deserve to experience such despair.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Oh. Well, perhaps it would be best to at least copy and paste what I wrote into a text file, and to save that file in a folder on your computer (I named mine "To Do List") where you could continue to add things you might wanna try in the future - especially stuff that would fall under alternative medicine (stuff that an average psychiatrist tends to know little about, or, knows about but doesn't think it works). This is what I did after I got sick. And things that did end up trying and didn't work, I cut and pasted into a separate folder which I titled "Fail".

Me and to do lists don't get along. I'm terribly unorganized. To the point that organization actually throws me off. LMAO. I've made a mental note though. I've literally got at least a hundred things that would be in my To Do list if I ever made one. Its overwhelming and depressing.

That's terrible by the way - for breathing exercises to be a trigger for panic attacks. Ouch.

Tell me about it. You're talking to someone who did full blown transcendental meditation at the age of 10 and now has panic attacks from just breathing properly.

If you get the chance, and you don't mind possibly really hot weather, I find a really good place - with respect to smog-free, low humidity, dry but very breathable air is Phoenix, Arizona. Unfortunately, it gets really hot down there during the summer months. I mean like - if you don't have air conditioning and a pool during the summer months in Arizona, God help you.

Last time I went to visit, the first day we were there, the temperature peaked at 118F.

I would die. Literally. Die. I went to Tucson one time back when I was not yet in the agoraphobia stage of my panic disorder and it was the fall and still 104 outside. I couldn't breathe at all. I do FAR worse in heat than I do in cold. You can always put more on... but you can only take so much off.

Why do you find it embarrassing? Are you concerned that your loved ones will begin to judge you or treat you differently - possibly in a patronizing and/or condescending manner?

I used to be very uncomfortable in relation to talking to family and relatives about my drug habits, because I expected that doing so would shatter any trust between us.

Its funny because I don't really care what people think about me. It is embarrassing to me. I don't know how to explain it. My family disowned me a long time ago and those that didn't, I cut off. I talk with one of my half sisters and everyone else can go to hell.
--------------------------------

Have you ever tried using any phenazepam or etizolam? I bought like 500mg of phenazepam about a year ago, but never bothered to use it as I have a small mountain of skipped (or forgot to take) Xanax doses/pills. And I've been keeping it stored in a cool, dark, air-tight place next to a bag of silica in an effort to keep the drug from losing its potency.

If I had the ability to do so, I would provide everyone who's in withdrawal (especially benzos and opioids) with a maintenance dose of a pharmaceutical drug, completely free of charge, in order to ease their suffering. Because I've been there myself countless times, and I wouldn't wish such suffering upon (probably) anyone - although I'm fairly confident that perhaps certain individuals might possibly deserve to experience such despair.

I haven't experimented with phenazepam or etizolam but considering how thoroughly addicted I am to Valium (currently down to 7.5mg and have been there since December but my doctor prescribed me up to 80mg at one point), I think I'm done with benzos.

The problem with benzos is that a "maintenance" dose still builds rapid tolerance. Its much harder to keep someone stable on benzos than it is with opioids. And the addiction to benzos is worse than the one to opioids. I've had friends withdraw from heroin and say they would do it a hundred times before ever going through benzos again.

 

[zebrafish]

So brain damage and chemical depletion can result in exactly the same symptoms?

It is interesting to note that the people who go through a comedown for a few days up to a few weeks, often have exactly the same symptoms as many who needs months and months.

Yes, regardless of whether someone has a temporary depletion of serotonin, or if they have damage to serotonin neurons, the result is altered serotonin transmission across synapses, which is responsible for the symptoms.

Could you link me the abstract of these studies?

Yes, I will try to post some links to abstracts either tomorrow or over the weekend. It takes some time for me to dig up the articles. If you are interested, we can even dissect the article to understand the methodology and flaws of key studies. I think it would be a good exercise on Bluelight to do this, as an attempt to try to really understand what the data so far really tells us about MDMA damage and recovery.

Also could you enlighten me as to the meaning of "neurotoxic effects" exactly? It seems to imply everything from axon detachment, to receptor down-regulation or altered gene expression.

Neurotoxic effects in the setting of MDMA usually refers to neuronal/axonal damage. Receptor downregulation is not really a neurotoxic event, as it is a physiologic compensatory mechanism when synaptic concentration of serotonin is increased. Downregulation (or upregulation) usually occurs through altered gene expression. When 5HT1A receptors are overstimulated, signalling pathways downstream from the 5HT1A receptors are activated, which result in decreased transcription of the gene encoding 5HT1A receptors. This downregulation can occur with acute increases in serotonin, such as after ingestion of MDMA, or due to chronic elevations in synaptic serotonin, such as in those taking SSRIs. However, the mechanisms of decreased 5HT1A gene transcription between the two are likely different, with the latter situation causing a more long term inactivation of promotor sites for 5HT1A transcription, which is why some people have long term symptoms after SSRI cessation.