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Salvia for Parkinsons?

RhythmSpring

RhythmSpring

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Is there any pharmacological reason for the following statements: "The purpose of the current clinical research project is to critically review the literature to investigate the effects Salvia divinorum use has on cognitive, affective, and behavioral functioning in humans. The review has implications for research on depression, anxiety, addiction, Parkinson's disease, and Alzheimer's disease. - http://dissertation.com/book.php?method=ISBN&book=1612337775#sthash.jTPZOJ0c.dpuf

If Salvia had efficacy for the treatment of Parkinsons disease, why would that be?
 
I dont know about salvia.
does it rebuild damaged dopamine receptors? or just amplify amounts of dopamine?

-CoQ10 is one example of something for parkinsons just off the top of my head.
 
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijmc/2011/403039/

It's a partial D2 agonist that also doesn't seem to be toxic at all (apparently extremely high doses to rats showed 0 organ damage).

If I'm understanding the article above correctly then, the reason salvia could be useful is that it is a partial agonist and thus shouldn't result in the DA dysregulation syndrome caused by the high affinity dopamine agonists currently used and it also shouldn't result in the valvular heart disease.

Again though, I'm not sure if I'm understanding it right and my knowledge of pharmacology is very shaky, the above it just my guess at it. :P
 
Yeah, the kappa opioid thing is really the major problem... doesn't improve parkinsons symptoms exactly when you are tripping balls.
 
Meh, that...

I would imagine that dopamine dysregulation syndrome would be far more pronounced with such a short acting drug as that- I mean, it's ridiculously short acting and that's a bad thing when it comes to these drugs. L-dopa lasts far longer and it still causes it.
 
Salvia is much more manageable when chewed (sublingual) rather than smoked; the former was the primary method for shamanic use in ancient Mexico. Oneirogens (kappa-opioids) are suspected to alter the sensitivity of the reward pathway and may have other effects on dopamine function.
 
PD pathology has already been well identified as over 70% dopaminergic neuron loss in the substantia nigra pars compacta, the questions are more surrounding why the cells are dying, and the answer is probably something along the lines of "a lot of different shit from genetics to neurotoxins to immune disregulation, depending on the case".

Dopamine D2 agonists are effective treatments in PD, but Salvia is very non-selective.
 
considering this phrase completely changes the study from one about biological treatment (neurotransmitters etc.) into one about a psychological treatment process:
to investigate the effects Salvia divinorum use has on cognitive, affective, and behavioral functioning in humans
Click to expand...
in which case being repeatedly jerked into salviaspace during treatment sessions
might be found to help the patient learn new cognitive management strategies and through that they may be able to sustain less tremor improving movement and mobility
 
Why does Salvia administration have to "jerk" the patient into salviaspace? Why not do repeated subthreshold sublingual doses?
 
Probably because it's not very efficient.

"Lack of effect of sublingual salvinorin A, a naturally occurring kappa opioid, in humans: a placebo-controlled trial"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063546/
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Salvia was used traditionally by chewing the leaves and swallowing the juices, and the effects were milder and more prolonged than you would get from smoking an extract. You're right that it's not very efficient (you have to use a lot more plant material) but the effects are probably more tolerable with that ROA.

From local to global-Fifty years of research on Salvia divinorum.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24315983
 
would it be possible to chew those 'salvia 20x' leaves that you get in vials online? Might be better to have a prolonged onset than one that is sudden and so freaking mentally disjointing!
 
I've recently be alerted that DOB, DOI, and 2C-I are being considered for clinical trials to combat Parkinson's because of there super potentent skeletal muscle relaxation abilities at sub-psychedelic doses. I'm not sure how this sort of therapy could ever be administered without intensive clinical observation but it does seem promising.
 
Super potent muscle relaxant activity? No. If they're indeed being considered for such an experiment, it would be because of their affinity for various dopamine receptors.

Parkinson's disease may indeed my characterized by muscle stiffness, but this stiffness is not peripheral. It's caused by damage to the dopaminergic system, making it hard for the brain to initiate and control movement.
 
drancer said:
would it be possible to chew those 'salvia 20x' leaves that you get in vials online? Might be better to have a prolonged onset than one that is sudden and so freaking mentally disjointing!
Click to expand...

If they're good quality, yes. I tried with dried leaves once. Not fun, took forever to get the leaf bits or if my teeth.

I have done this with extract before, but it always worked better with tincture. I'd consider soaking that 20x in a bit of ethanol and apply bits of that under your tongue.
 
Really? I thought the concensus was that the extracts didn't work very well, if at all, sublingually. Also, I was of the impression that most tinctures sold online didn't work either.
 
hammilton said:
Super potent muscle relaxant activity? No. If they're indeed being considered for such an experiment, it would be because of their affinity for various dopamine receptors.
Click to expand...

Right, of course, and the compounds listed don't even act as dopamine antagonists. It was found that DOI acts as a potent anti-inflammatory, and this activity is likely mediated via agonism at 5ht2a. And rheumatoid arthritis and Parkinsons both tend to hit the elderly disproportionately? ;)

Fag said:
Really? I thought the concensus was that the extracts didn't work very well, if at all, sublingually.
Click to expand...

No, this route works, but it's less reliable for 'breaking through' (if that's even what one wants...few people actually want any of the effects that salvia induces ;)) and is vastly less efficient.

Also, I was of the impression that most tinctures sold online didn't work either.
Click to expand...

That's because extracts are often produced with people lacking knowledge of what sort of solvent procedure would be optimal and/or are sold by liars touting nonexistent potency.

ebola
 
Cancer, heart disease, stroke and dementia also hit the elderly disproportionately.

Arthritis is an autoimmune thing, I don't think the same can be said of Parkinson's.
 
sekio said:
Yeah, the kappa opioid thing is really the major problem... doesn't improve parkinsons symptoms exactly when you are tripping balls.
Click to expand...

I've not known many FDA approved treatments to benefit Parkinsons' syndrome regardless of who happens to be tripping balls.

Parkinsons seems to be something not easily remedied by pharmaceutical intevervention perhaps both dietary and pharmaceutical but not just one above the other.

Most of the things I know that treat our parkinson suffering patients aren't particularly new or revolutionary, they just work for that specific person and usually don't work for the next.

I love to conjecture lord knows but Parkinsons is a strange one and I doubt we have any number of drugs available to us to alleviate it that's considering drugs specified for such a purpose.

Maybe some complex analog of Salvinorin A perhaps but I'll admit I don't possess the knowledge to say why that might or might not work.

I always thought salvinorin derivatives were useful because of their kappa opiod qualities?
 
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