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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Gibberings CLIV: Fecking Finally

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MDB id love to see you benzo'd off your face bouncing around on those things. comedy gold i bet
 
mydrugbuddy said:
Sorry for the geeky dorkyness of the reply.
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Hehe. Geeky dorky and... wrong. Which is the point I was making. The yawning/oxygen thing has been positively disproved leaving no particular theory and the sleep thing has always been pure conjecture. I'm out geeky dorkying you cos happen to have read up a bit on latest sleep research recently ;)
 
well not knowing why we actually sleep doesnt mean one doesnt need to sleep. and i wasnt really trying to say everyone is the same, just that on average most people seem to need more than a couple of hours per night....

id also guess yawning has more to do with the social animal than anything physiological
 
kingme said:
well not knowing why we actually sleep doesnt mean one doesnt need to sleep.
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Of course not. But the fact remains that some people don't appear to need sleep. Not many but they do exist. There's also a freaky genetic disorder which means the unfortunate individual cannot sleep. Ever. There's a whole family that's had this particular gene for generations and they all die young (at ~40ish from memory) which does suggest that some sleep is necessary for healthy living. Wish I could get by on less than I seem to need to but I really can't. I loves me stims but it seems I have to catch up on every minute of sleep I skip when stimmed before I start to feel anywhere close to "normal" again.

kingme said:
id also guess yawning has more to do with the social animal than anything physiological
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Interestingly, it's been noted that yawns are not only "infectious" amongst humans but can be "caught" by different species. If you happen to yawn at a zoo you may note this yourself. Also been noted that paratroopers communally yawn just before jumping from a plane. Apparently. Never jumped from a plane myself but it was one of the quirky things mentioned in the thing wot I was reading.
 
Shambles said:
Hehe. Geeky dorky and... wrong. Which is the point I was making. The yawning/oxygen thing has been positively disproved leaving no particular theory and the sleep thing has always been pure conjecture. I'm out geeky dorkying you cos happen to have read up a bit on latest sleep research recently ;)
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i must admit its about 20 years since i read the 'latest research' on sleep and dreams.
 
I'm not claiming to have read all of it - just those bits and some related stuff which happened to coincide with me reading a book which spends a lotta time discussing the possible/likely evolutionary reasons for various human states and behaviours and sleep was discussed rather extensively. The conclusions were really rather fascinating but kinda complicated to explain concisely in a Gibberings post. May have a crack at it later. May not.
 
one of my fellow students as a psychology undergrad had a father who worked in the sleep research centre in Nottingham with 2 famous bods in the field that i cant currently recall the names of. Due to this i paid more attention than normal to the bits of my course about sleep and dreams, and was at the time surprised to discover that dream analysis was a load of unscientific subjective twaddle, and at that time, 20 years ago, i think it was brain stimulation IIRC was the strongest theory as to why do we dream. But i dont doubt you, if you say that this has since been ruled out as a theory.
 
Oh no, I wasn't saying that mental stimulation had been ruled out at all. In fact that is still the frontrunner theory as far as I can tell (simple rest and rejuvenation alone - downtime for body to repair itself - has been ruled out, however). Point I was making was simply that there is no solid evidence one way or t'other really and that sleep is still a rather mysterious state. Book I mentioned has some very interesting ideas and the dream/stimulation thing comes up quite a bit. Wish I was better at condensing things down to bitesize chunks but maybe once I've finished the book.

I was also surprised to discover that dream analysis has fallen so very far from favour of late. It was still being taught as virtual gospel when I did me psychology GCSE (making me more or less a PhD, frankly). But again, it seems to be more a case of fashions changing than anything else. I can't really see how you can prove nor disprove the relevance of dream imagery. I've often found it be be highly symbolic and ripe for analysing. It's what you make from your analyses, I suppose.
 
Yeah i guess its quite different analysing your own dreams, when their symbolism can seem quite clear, rather than having some Freudian Psychoanalyst attempt to put their own spin on things.

Its a staggering state of affairs IMO as it appears to be just common sense that sleep rests and recharges the mind and body, yet scientists have been unable to proove this one way or the other. WTF is wrong with them, it appears it should be easy, though i have only sat through 1 lecture on the subject and read a few chapters in a book, so am only vaguely semi educated and very far from being an expert in the field.
 
mydrugbuddy said:
erm some scientists believe that we need to sleep as the brain needs REM sleep to either consolidate or stimulate the brain as required after the events of each day, also yawning is believed by some to increase oxygen intake when required. Its only theories and conjecture though, AFAIK these are their current best guesses and as you say they dont really know for sure. Sorry for the geeky dorkyness of the reply. I should put some masking tape on the bridge of my specs eh.
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I shall put a large number of pens in my jacket pocket and start actually reading the New Scientist (most people just buy it )

I read something on yawning (no reference you'll just have to take my word for it) that yawning was catching and that the likely hood of you yawning in response to another was related to empathy. They even showed chimps film of other chimps yawning and found the same empathetic effect. Some people really need to get out more ;)

@Shambles re speed having developed far to much of an interest these last couple of years I'd say the internet SR and international shipping has largely levelled the ground on such things as Amphetamines and MDMA. From what I hear the street is lagging behind a little with lazy dealers still trying to pass off bunk as decent product Kenny clearly got mugged up:D

Hope you all had a great Crimbo (bless the baby Jesus who died for our sins etc etc) and that you fair well in 2014.
 
mydrugbuddy said:
... am only vaguely semi educated and very far from being an expert in the field.
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Snap. But still interesting all the same. The bit that has been specifically disproved is that sleep is required for the body to go into optimal repair mode. General wear and tear is repaired at the same rate whether asleep, awake, or even utterly exhausted after being kept up round the clock for days in a sleep lab trying to prove/disprove theories about sleep and bodily repairs.

I'd be fairly sure that it must be more about mental processes cos we all know folk go "a bit funny" if they don't get enough sleep (when drugs are not involved). Although, again, hard evidence of this seems to be remarkably thin on the ground if not just completely absent. So far anyway.
 
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