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The sad state of PD

Bob Loblaw said:
If you don't like a thread then don't fucking post in it. It's not that hard. Like a thread? Then post in it. If something can be reported, then by all means report that shit so mods can' address it as soon as possible. People want to bitch all the time, but if you're not doing your part then pls stfu. I can only speak bluntly for myself, though I'd be surprised if PD staff doesn't feel the same way.
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I'm going to re-post attempts to do things that haven't worked since I think articulating ideas about exactly how we propose to change things is the way to keep this discussion productive at this point.

I tried this: A Guide to Constructive Debate, A.K.A. How Not to Waste Your Time or Other's Online

... it went nowhere.

A few members of the PD staff made this valiant effort: The Esoteric Pharmacology Project

... ultimately it went nowhere.

So try something substantially different than expecting people to get on board with things like either of the above is my advice. I'm at a loss as to what that should be aside from what I posted earlier on how The Esoteric Pharmacology Project might be re-launched to better reception.

EDIT:
What would a new sub-forum on bluelight that fit the bill look like? I'd think sophisticated discussion about social theory regarding drugs could go in Science and Technology (and that forum gets very little traffic). Discussion about drug policy could go in the How should society treat drug use? thread in Current Events and Politics (that thread is developing very slowly and only has 1192 views despite being a month old, suggesting visitors to bluelight really aren't that interested or don't go to the sub-forum). The fact that these two things are getting little traffic indicates to me that either people who want to make more formal or sophisticated posts aren't here, they're here but are too exasperated to believe trying is worth the effort, they stubbornly remain lurkers, or something about the site's layout has kept these things from catching people's attention. Maybe the world's internet using druggies are just that shiftless and we deserve our social status? I'd be interested in any other forums people know of outside of bluelight where these sorts of discussions are taking place if anybody has links, but I'd think bluelight would be where they'd gravitate towards beyond blogs, facebook and co., and twitter.
 
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i hate to say it but i agree with OP. PD now has constant "dirty acid" threads, lots of drug-store-high kinda stuff, and generally alot more n00bery than what it used to be. i think more people are experimenting with drugs than ever, and there are more drugs out there than ever.

however i think some people need to remember that bluelight is a harm reduction site. this isnt just for experienced drug users to talk with each other about what they are getting high on these days, its a place for people to learn how to responsibly use drugs, and to understand how other peoples' experiences could possibly give them an idea on how to do things more safely.

i for one have NO problem steering people in the right direction that need to be--thats why i post on here. its not a "sad state of PD" its the general sad state of drug culture today. by and large, people have no idea what they are taking these days, and if they do they dont always know what those drugs really do. if you dont like it you dont have to post here, but i am all about making a difference so we can have a safer, more informed culture of psychedelic trippers.

just my two cents
 
What is with everyone's hate on for dirty acid threads? So many of you scoff at it as if everything that there is to know about LSD is clearly understood and people who are interested in the VASTLY different effects it can produce despite being the exact same drug. Is this not a place to discuss PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS??? And yet so much discrimination is thrown at anyone trying to make sense of the varying effects of what is arguably considered the king of psychedelics. It really seems bafflingly hypocritical.
 
Well after you spend 3 pages repeating "there's no such thing as dirty acid" and then someone comes along and posts something like "I've had Chinese needlepoint and it's so clean", it kind of gets you down. It's as if you're standing in a room full of people with their fingers in their ears.
 
buildersoftime said:
Well after you spend 3 pages repeating "there's no such thing as dirty acid" and then someone comes along and posts something like "I've had Chinese needlepoint and it's so clean", it kind of gets you down. It's as if you're standing in a room full of people with their fingers in their ears.
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Actually, that's my point you can't say there's no such thing as dirty acid it's just that what people are calling dirty acid may very be plain old regular LSD but there are absolutley many factors such as possible sympathomimetic break down products. Or an infinite number of other unknown variables. I've done enough acid for enough years to know without a doubt that many different blotters felt NOTHING alike over the years. We really understand so fucking little about exactly what's occurring on many different levels when someone takes acid that it seems pretty much utterly shockingly ignorant to say "hey man LSD is LSD no one needs to look into the matter any further". It's exactly this attitude of - well this subject is not to my taste so no one should pursue it - that's makes me shake my head. As someone else VERY wisely pointed out if you don't like the subject matter of any thread then don't fucking post on it! This world is filled with all kinds of things I don't like, don't agree with and won't support but that doesn't mean that everything that I don't like should just cease.
 
^ have you ever heard of lumi/iso LSD? They are centrally inactive but may exert clinically significant peripheral effects. Also may erolines exist that may have been laid on blotter, thus contributing to the dirty acid effect.

I've had such experiences, confirmed by others that consumed the same product in completely different settings, that were undeniably ergoloids, yet not quite what I know LSD to be. As far as I'm concerned it's an under investigated phenomena, that should no longer be dismissed so long as the user is a connoisseur of LSD and long acting phenethylamines.
 
^ This is not the "dirty acid debate" thread... we have enough of those :|


I'm guessing that particular topic was just used as an example of a subject that's been repeated to death around here. It really is of no relevance, forget it and let's go on with finding the best ways to contribute positively to this forum.



@ Psood0nym, I could see how the Esoteric forum could be a great success. It would need to have a somewhat dedicated group of people ready to take the jump when it first starts up though, as well as quite a bit of advertising from those who are a part of it. You'll never be able to get a site that could even compare to the size of BL, though.. the audience would need to be decidedly small and focused for there to be any real discussion taking place.
 
Here we go again:

1) if the dirt in dirty LSD is LSD then can you explain how two identical arrangements of atoms can cause different pharmacological effects on account of one being 'dirty' and one being 'clean'? How is the extra information held? And why can't we see it? Is this like religion in the sense that if you have to ask for proof, you're missing the point? If not, where's the fucking evidence?

2) if the dirt in dirty LSD in not LSD then what is it? There's never been an observed impurity of LSD that's active in the quantities necessary to account for the claims made. The proponents of the 'dirty acid' theory don't have any answers to this. Their attitude is 'I'm not a scientist so it's not up to me to prove it'.

3) the variable effects of LSD can be explained by it's complicated pharmacology and it's peculiar sensitivity to set and setting. Sometimes LSD makes you puke and shit and sometimes it doesn't.

4) pending new evidence, end of story. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and it's not acceptable to insist that something is true but ask opponents of the theory to prove it for you.
 
Folley said:
@ Psood0nym, I could see how the Esoteric forum could be a great success. It would need to have a somewhat dedicated group of people ready to take the jump when it first starts up though, as well as quite a bit of advertising from those who are a part of it. You'll never be able to get a site that could even compare to the size of BL, though.. the audience would need to be decidedly small and focused for there to be any real discussion taking place.
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That's what I was saying in my first post when I said we'd need every forum's committed posters to be informed of a grand opening to get them all on at the same time. That didn't happen when it was tried so far as I was notified. I don't think it would have to be anywhere near as big as bluelight, since threads like the Breaking Bad thread have over 128,000 views and I think you can almost count the number of unique posters in that thread on two hands. If you simply got a lot of people together talking about topics they've always wanted to talk about but never had the chance, and then ensured that the opening of the new forum had a lot of simultaneous visitors and some "seed topics" to get them started, I think it would work. Still, it's difficult to coordinate that across numerous online forums worldwide with posters who may not necessarily be easy to notify for various reasons. But it'd be worth a shot.

@builders of time: I basically agree with you but I'm not adding anything because as soon as we start debating a popular evergreen topic we're inviting digressions from the intended purpose of your thread.
 
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entheo said:
^ have you ever heard of lumi/iso LSD? They are centrally inactive but may exert clinically significant peripheral effects. Also may erolines exist that may have been laid on blotter, thus contributing to the dirty acid effect.

I've had such experiences, confirmed by others that consumed the same product in completely different settings, that were undeniably ergoloids, yet not quite what I know LSD to be. As far as I'm concerned it's an under investigated phenomena, that should no longer be dismissed so long as the user is a connoisseur of LSD and long acting phenethylamines.
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Careful! We might get burned at the stake for discussing such matters ;)
Yes, this is what I was referring to as sympathomimetic break down products. It may even be a factor as simple (possibly all?) ergoloids are just highly variable in there experience depending on the moment it gets metabolized. It just strongly stands out to me how variable LSD is in its experience compared to EVERY other tryptamine and Phenethylamine I've ever tried. If it was something as simple as set and setting then the Phens and tryps would be just as variable but they just are not at least in my experience.
The only reason people keep bringing this up is because people like myself are honestly having sometimes extremely different experiences on what IS most likely LSD in most of these occasions. Something strange and interesting happens on occasion regarding one of the most important psychedelics and some really smart , academically minded , good folks keep refusing to see the that there really might be something more going on here. The repeated argument I keep hearing is LSD can only be LSD end of story. Well, I couldn't agree more! My point is that there could a whole host of currently unknown factors leading to this phenomenon. It's just damn ignorant to condemn anyone for trying figure this out. This is partly why bluelight is here besides harm reduction. LSD is still somewhat of a mystery and definetly worth discussing.
 
^ yet another example of how this forum has degraded to what amounts to dose questions, what I would consider idealistic neo-hippy philosophical ponderings, and plain old simpleton threads that serve no educational or hr purpose.
 
The topic at hand is going in circles, and I insisted that a thread be opened to further discussion that topic.
Stop being a jackass, this thread is nearly impossible to hijack via the fact that the forum obviously won't change and no relevant suggestions have been made other than to reincarnate a seperate entity.

A mod can clean up my posts if they see fit, other wise my posts are just as pertinent to the improvement of PD. After all, we are discussing a topic that could be potentially groundbreaking, that happens to be a glaring example of how this site has fallen out of its golden age.
 
Ha ha ha ... HAH! If you guys had read the last part of my last post you probably wouldn't have posted, but that you posted what you did is a case in point:
psood0nym said:
I basically agree with you but I'm not adding anything because as soon as we start debating a popular evergreen topic we're inviting digressions from the intended purpose of your thread.
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Honestly part of the problem is that people don't read all of even short threads before they post, they just look for whatever presses their hot buttons and post instantly out of emotion rather than because they've considered things thoroughly or critically.
 
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Why do members of the bluelight crew keep repeating things like 'don't complain about it, change it' when this thread is in itself an attempt at change?

I can't open a new sub forum on account of not having the correct permissions so I'm asking those who do directly. Please can we do one of two things:

1) reinstate ADD alongside the new Neuroscience and Pharmacology forum.

2) create an 'advanced psychedelics discussion' subforum
 
psood0nym said:
Ha ha ha ... HAH! If you guys had read the last part of my last post you probably wouldn't have posted, but that you posted what you did is a case in point:
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What an ego you have, I don't let other members deter me if I have something to offer. Please don't act as if any singular member has any affect on whether or not I contribute what I believe to be important information.
Your post is a direct example of why this forum is going no where fast. Any intelligent discussion is immediately shot down, regardless if its in the the proper thread or not it is still worthwhile. Like I said, Mods signed up to clean up the sub-forum. If they don't have the will, way, or allotted amount of time in order to organize PD then by contract they should be de-modded.

At least that LSD question is a viable scientific topic to discuss rather than a complaint thread.
 
^ That's all well and fine, although I don't agree with the first point as ADD is still exactly the same only with a different name.



Attempting to point out the flaws in the system is one thing, discussing the potential impact of LSD byproducts on a trip is something entirely different however. Now that the page has turned over hopefully we can continue on topic, I urge anyone that feels the need to continue discussing "dirty acid" to go to the appropriate threads.




An "Advanced Psychedelic Discussion" could be an interesting place, but IMO there would be quite a bit of pretension and potentially bad vibes to "non-advanced" users. I don't really think there is much benefit to this either, it's not as if all the "newbs" are posting in the scholarly threads. You could easily have an "advanced" thread that was surrounded by novice questions. Again, I know you are looking for a more directed target audience but those who are truly interested will still be exposed and it's unlikely that someone who cares little about the subject would come and weigh in.


entheo said:
What an ego you have, I don't let other members deter me if I have something to offer. Please don't act as if any singular member has any affect on whether or not I contribute what I believe to be important information.
Your post is a direct example of why this forum is going no where fast. Any intelligent discussion is immediately shot down, regardless if its in the the proper thread or not it is still worthwhile. Like I said, Mods signed up to clean up the sub-forum. If they don't have the will, way, or allotted amount of time in order to organize PD then by contract they should be de-modded.

At least that LSD question is a viable scientific topic to discuss rather than a complaint thread.
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No one is trying to stop you from discussing LSD, you're doing it in the WRONG place though. :| If this information is such a "breakthrough" don't you think it belongs in a thread based on that subject so that people who use the search feature can find it as well?


This is another MAJOR problem with forums, no one takes the time to find the proper place to post. That's why discussion is constantly repeated, people don't take the time to search and see if it's been said in the past.
 
Deal with it, like I said the moderators volunteered to clean up things like this. The discussion could be continued here and then merged into the proper thread. That is the mods job after all, I have been posting in PD regularly for 6 years, please don't act like I don't know how to contribute in a constructive manner.
You are demonstrating why PD has fallen out of its golden age. The topic came up and it just do happened to be relevant in the sense that it is an eternally dismissed concept; a major factor in the sub forums downfall.
 
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