Is addiction forever?/ Are we permanently the "A" word? (Addict)

[Psychedelic Jay]

You know how they say, once an addict, always an addict? It's true. In rehab, they teach people that it is harmful to think you're over your addiction. My friend who went to rehab said the people who relapsed the fastest were the ones who said "I got it, I'm good now."
My point is, admitting you have a problem, will always be an addict, and have no control over your addiction, is the most basic and essential step to recovery. For you, knowing you have a problem and can't do a drug without wanting more and more and feeling the way you did your first time is EXACTLY what distinguishes you from a recreational drug user. Even if you aren't an addict yet, you have an addictive personality. I think it's best to just use your willpower and stay away since you know you can't just have some fun every once in awhile. It's important to do that before it's too late. If you need any help with cravings, HALT--hungry angry lonely tired is a good trick. Address these 4 things and fix them before chasing that high, you could subconsciously need to fulfill one of these rather than simply wanting to chase a high. Hope I helped, best wishes

-L

This is simply not true.

It is true that one can become intrenched in a cycle...

Addiction is a habitual behaviour and state of mind...

People can change their mind and behaviour...

To say one is doomed is against logic.

To the everyday common man and woman, addiction is so oversimplified, that we are stuck with this degrading of people who even use "occasionally"...

Always remember that people with addiction is actually quite low compared to the people that use drugs...

Once again I'll say:

Drugs do not and cannot doom you to eternal damnation. It is against logic to say one cannot change habitual behaviour.

 

[Tommyboy]

This is simply not true.

It is true that one can become intrenched in a cycle...

Addiction is a habitual behaviour and state of mind...

People can change their mind and behaviour...

To say one is doomed is against logic.

To the everyday common man and woman, addiction is so oversimplified, that we are stuck with this degrading of people who even use "occasionally"...

Always remember that people with addiction is actually quite low compared to the people that use drugs...

Once again I'll say:

Drugs do not and cannot doom you to eternal damnation. It is against logic to say one cannot change habitual behaviour.

I agree, although if some addicts need to believe this in order to get and stay clean then I'm alright by that. I hate that it's used as a blanket statement about all addicts though. I remember in outpatient rehab when they would preach that, and people would bring up somebody they know that was able to stop doing a certain drug a lot, and either just use something else on occasion, or even that drug a few times a year, and right away the counselor would say 'then that person wasn't an addict.' So I'm sitting there thinking how the kid I know like that used to drive 6 hours round trip to get sometimes just 1 suboxone from me after blowing almost all of his money on oxy, and only having enough money for one sub, and was lucky enough to have a gas card from his parents so he could drive all the way to me. Anyway, after a few years of hardcore use, blackout out all the time, etc, he stopped for a while and now just uses on occasion, so now he was never an addict according to counselors.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

I agree, although if some addicts need to believe this in order to get and stay clean then I'm alright by that. I hate that it's used as a blanket statement about all addicts though. I remember in outpatient rehab when they would preach that, and people would bring up somebody they know that was able to stop doing a certain drug a lot, and either just use something else on occasion, or even that drug a few times a year, and right away the counselor would say 'then that person wasn't an addict.' So I'm sitting there thinking how the kid I know like that used to drive 6 hours round trip to get sometimes just 1 suboxone from me after blowing almost all of his money on oxy, and only having enough money for one sub, and was lucky enough to have a gas card from his parents so he could drive all the way to me. Anyway, after a few years of hardcore use, blackout out all the time, etc, he stopped for a while and now just uses on occasion, so now he was never an addict according to counselors.

That is a perfect example.

People see me as "a person giving excuses to keep using"...

It is highly imperative that we understand that addiction is a "spur of the moment" disease.

You never hear people complain about needs and wants for drugs if physical and mental withdrawals are put at bay or overcomed by time.

Craving only occurs in two stages... 1.) Withdrawal... or 2.) Presence of drug... The second part is easily overshadowed if sobriety has been maintained for a sufficient period.

This is the only reason why alcoholics and smokers are more prone to failure... There is no real repercussions to use besides health issues.

Alcohol can be treated much the same as benzodiazepine dependence, Correct?

But, it is not illegal nor hard to acquire scotch if the funds and transportation are available. This makes compulsion easier.

Moved to new thread.

 

[HEI1234]

I don't understand why people thinks when someone addicted to "drugs", the only way is to detox or get clean. Like this is the only choice.

One can use drugs or even use addiction as a tool

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

I don't understand why people thinks when someone addicted to "drugs", the only way is to detox or get clean. Like this is the only choice.

One can use drugs or even use addiction as a tool

As a tool, I consider the lesson to be "occasion is the essence of fun" with drugs...

I find myself that compulsion is enslaving... I just leads to a goal that will eventually never be met.

 

[HEI1234]

As a tool, I consider the lesson to be "occasion is the essence of fun" with drugs...

I find myself that compulsion is enslaving... I just leads to a goal that will eventually never be met.

If you try to live with your addiction, not to fight it anymore, it can be done, but not easy, when you can organize your dosage, addiction is not a bad thing (for you) anymore.

Use drugs as a tool, don't let it use you.
Remember this: a type of chemical substance don't have the ability to ruin your life, that is not it's life to ruin,

THIS IS YOUR LIFE, YOU ARE THE BOSS

Btw,I am already admit opiates is a part of my existence...

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

If you try to live with your addiction, not to fight it anymore, it can be done, but not easy, when you can organize your dosage, addiction is not a bad thing (for you) anymore.

Use drugs as a tool, don't let it use you.
Remember this: a type of chemical substance don't have the ability to ruin your life, that is not it's life to ruin,

THIS IS YOUR LIFE, YOU ARE THE BOSS

Btw,I am already admit opiates is a part of my existence...

I just said all of that.

I gave the reason why I no longer use so heavily anymore.

 

[HEI1234]

Why I miss the #3 and #5 comment?
I still can't see them now, I am new here
Did I do anything wrong? Dele it?

 

[Rabidkoala]

So you believe that because someone cleaned up and changed their way of thinking, that they can do that drug that took over their life, with the same sober state of mind and rationalization as before they were intoxicated? You think while intoxicated that a person is capable of rationalizing at the same cognitive level as they are sober?
If they were capable of making rational, logical, and responsible decisions while slightly intoxicated, they wouldn't have gotten addicted in the first place. Regardless of how much you changed yourself as a sober person, your intoxicated, drug seeking later ego will always be the same. You don't just go and get totally trashed the first time you start using again. You gradually just do a little, then a little bit more. Then the addict self shines through finally enough to suppress the sober rationalization and everything spirals.
It's a set up for failure. I have seen the same people go from being sober, to thinking they can control it...starting slowly and then eventually being the same way they were before...and almost always worse than before. I grew up with it. Known the behavior and thought pattern since I was born. And as I grew in to an adult, I have seen many and many of people fall around me every time. No matter how they struggled, they always had that same thought of having a handle. Sorry if I am wrong and you have it all figured out. But it doesn't matter if you are having 'withdrawls' on one specific substance. I would compare addiction as to how much time I am preoccupied with being intoxicated, on whatever substance it may be. If someone has been in legal troubles, rehab, family or relationship problems etc, it's obviously causing problems with one's life. One doesn't have to be physically dependant and withdrawing to be an addict. An addict tries the same thing over and over again, and fails to stop repeating behaviors despite the consequences that has entailed on his or her life. For example: trying to tell himself that after so many legal, family, personal, and financial problems that they have it under control.and you are not in control, because if you were, you wouldn't think you could try abusing drugs again. And admitting that you have to have them to survive....that's an addiction. Jeez.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

While I sympathize wholeheartedly...

One doesn't have to dwell in pulling straws...

No one specified the type of addiction. They all show the same background. The substance in question doesn't matter. Craving is just as strong in mental or physical addiction.

And if you read my first post, your examples indeed fall into this category. The doomed ones everyone is talking about... They aren't doomed, and certainly capable of holding things together. I'll explain this.

The main reason I know why countless people who you and I both know never get sober/putting a handle on drugs is:

They didn't see a logical reason to. It is as simple as that. The reason for change was/is not clear. Reason controls everything...

You see behaviour requires a reason for change... If the one who is perceived to need change is not seeing a legitimate reason, one will not give up compulsion.

Incarceration, personal, and financial problems only add to pain. Pain is a legitimate reason to most to why most use drugs. It is almost a central part of most if not all dependency use.

If you add more pain to the persons ("addicts") life, there will be more drugs.


Only when one is awash is when it is called the layman term of "addiction"... Fiend, junkie, crackhead, tweaker, what have you all mean the same to me.... These people were hurting or hurt at some point to find relief in substances.

That is why I see addict as a low word like all the countless terms... It gives a "gritty" feel to an oversimplified concept.


When people want to change addiction they actively start chasing the help rather than the drugs... I see this first hand. The people with reason change.

No one NEEDS drugs... We WANT relief... It is a natural instinct.

Once you can find relief of the ailment, then you can almost with great certainty handle substance dependency...


After some proper therapy and time, most can become occasional users... These do not include people who do not find what or where this "pain" is coming from.

This is why dependency is a Psychologically medical issue...

One who is not dependent doesn't have these problems, at all

 

[Rabidkoala]

Okay, well, someone that did seek help, and did see reason for change...would probably just stop using drugs altogether and decide that life was better without them.
As to say that addicts don't try because they have no reason....I'm not even going to go into that. I'm just going to say that you obviously haven't seen seen what I have. And it's sad. And they tried hard. And now they're gone. The definition of an addict is someone who has a control over them, compulsion, illness. So why are you trying to say that addicts don't exist? With that definition, you wouldn't be an addict if you could choose. The definition of an addict is 'powerless' you described them as addicts can ' make choices if they see a reason'...well yeah, they can choose to be sober. But the definition of an addict is someone who is powerless over a substance they are addicted to. So no, they can't do it whenever for fun and just stop.
The people you're describing, like yourself, are drug abusers. Totally two ad·dict (-dkt)
tr.v. ad·dict·ed, ad·dict·ing, ad·dicts
1. To cause to become physiologically or psychologically dependent on a habit-forming substance: The thief was addicted to cocaine.
2. To occupy (oneself) with or involve (oneself) in something habitually or compulsively: The child was addicted to video games.
n. (dkt)
1. One who is addicted, as to narcotics or a compulsive activity.
2. A devoted adherent; a fan: "We are all . . . addicts of change" (Christopher Lasch).
[Latin addcere, addict-, to sentence : ad-, ad- + dcere, to adjudge; see deik- in Indo-European roots.]
different things. Don't discredit the true pain and fight of struggling addicts.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

Once again you misinterpret what I am saying. Plus, saying life is better without drugs is solely from the perspective of the person, not society...

There are indeed plenty of reasons... Just not good enough ones to make them go the extra mile...

If THEY do not see a fit reason, the dependency doesn't end.

No one said they don't exist, nor did anything I stated said the same... it is such a terrible word to use. "Substance dependant person" is better sounding in every way. It also doesn't humiliate them either.

You can indeed choose not to be an addict. Following through treatment is the key. Not all courses of treatment include sobriety. Sobriety should only be a goal if one has psychological/health issues or is in danger of creating one.


ADDICT IN NO WAY MEANS POWERLESS

Habitual behaviour does not render one powerless.

You are confusing it with hope... They can render one hopeless.


You are an addict because of pain, you are not in pain because you are an addict... You slip into compulsion for a need to feel better.

An substance dependent person can always tell you a life experience that foretold the upcoming cycle...

Addict is nothing more than a sum of three words. Dependency, Habituation, Compulsion. You can't have one without the other. It is an ugly word.

But, they do intertwine with one another.

You become dependent on it because it soothes your pain...

You form a habituation towards the drug because you are dependent on it soothing the said pain...

You have a compulsion to use the said drug because you formed a habituation as the pain relief is temporary...


No ones is discrediting anything...

And no one is permanently (Meaning cannot be stopped even with change.) addicted.

 

[JT_5]

This is simply not true.

I consider myself an addict and i was diagnosed in a treatment center by a team of psychologists and doctors that specialize in the field of both substance dependency and addiction. I understand that everyone has the right to their own opinion - however, I dont feel i quite understand your argument against all the research that's been done on the subject.

Through personal experience i can tell you that it's not possible for myself or anyone I know to use safely. Addiction in this day and age is considered a disease that is progressive, chronic, and terminal. This point isn't really arguable. Do your research because the numbers don't lie. You don't need to show most people the numbers to make them believe that a fact as solid as one like "most people who get the bubonic plague and are untreated will die"... Addiction is a disease and it's one with a high mortality rate, do some reading and you'll see that you're mistaken with your belief.

Though i disagree with your belief, i'll finish with one of my beliefs. I believe everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[_DankOpiAmp_]

It's is just a 12-step cultist mantra used to make you think you need their shitty group that takes credit for the rate of spontaneous remission. The indoctrinated will always mindlessly defend that view. Their minds are lost.

 

[mustermann]

No one NEEDS drugs... We WANT relief... It is a natural instinct.

With a strong physical dependence on certain sedatives and hypnotics, you need the drug as much as you need food. Withdrawal can be fatal.

But more importantly, I find you oversimplify way too much in this entire thread. "Relief" is nowhere near the whole story. What I have in the back of my mind is the rewards circuit, where other forces are at play.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

This is difficult to answer as everyone has different opinions on what defines an addiction.
Although I may not be addicted to drugs at this time, it does seem like my cravings may not go away.
If I think of cocaine I still get that excited feeling in my stomach and obviously want a rail, but my self control can easily push those thoughts away.
Is the presence of self control over your vices the only way to define a non addict over an addict?
I really don't want to begin arguing semantics here haha

 

[XThexXTank]

I think once an addict, always an addict. Now matter how old you get that addiction will always be tucked away inside your head and theres no escaping it.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

I'm not oversimplifying anything. I really haven't covered everything... There is much more.

We all know sedative hypnotics can be fatal if stopped abruptly. This doesn't indicate that anyone needs them. That need was once non-existent and can also be made back to that point.

The reward circuit is what creates the "relief"... If drugs had no reward, we wouldn't use them as so.

I for one support Carl Hart's theories... This is addiction from a scientific standpoint, not what governments make you doomed to think.

 

[Not Again]

I've been an addict since 16. I'm 37

However I've always got off what ever I was on and keep a couple of years in between clean. I just forget that I can get out of hand with things. I am very successful, and having the dough makes it easier.

I remember the days of nothing, very similar to today except today I have everything and that keeps me at bay with things. I am an alcoholic but I can just have one drink at a dinner and be fine. WTF does that mean?

I can take a hit of weed and not touch it for years and then all of a sudden go through an ounce in a week. WTF does that mean.

I can take some pain meds and stop then months later find the old meds in a cabinet and get strung out and addicted to opiates for 6 months and go through a sub program to get off of them. WTF does that mean?

Addiction is different for everyone. So the op's quoted statement could very likely be true, to different people.

 

[hunter1]

Good topic!

Last rehab I did really made me address the 'once an addict, always an addict' concept.

There was no right or wrong answer. Facilitator put that sentance on a whiteboard and on the left was completely agree and on the right was completely disagree. We then used the room, extreme left or right and you had to stand where you viewed the idea.

The clincher was that she said you have a guarenteed 5 years addiction drug free as a given.

This really put things in perspective for me like no other exercise has.

I stood 4/5 ths towards disagree completely.
The given 5 years of sobriatety changed my outlook completely.

Things can change a lot in 5 years...

For myself personally I do not think that labeling myself as such forever will have any positive effect on my recovery efforts. This may be just a stage of my life. It's not my entire me and never has been. I once played AFL and it was my life. It now is just something from my past.

I'm a very cynical negative nancy by nature but this really gave me real hope. Labeling myself as an addict for life is not a way of thinking that will help me in the long run.

It implies that I'm missing out on something.

My 2 cents