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TDS Drugs - Self Harm vs Self Medication

A

Allein

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Oct 29, 2005
Messages
10,940
Apologies in advance for any rambling, I'm not good at long posts and eloquence is not something I have in abundance.

I've a long history of drug use, mainly stimulants, I've always managed to sidestep opiate abuse of any note. My use remained largely recreational and apparently without any real issues until my 30's.

A run of coke, Benzo and alcohol abuse with other RC stims thrown in was either a result or the cause of a fall into depression and it's associated problems which eventually led to a fairly unpleasant episode from which I am still recovering.

I've had some success over the years in cutting out substances that I felt were problematic so I no longer take coke, drink alcohol, do benzos or smoke anything but I still find amphetamines all too attractive and a recent 7 day run has left me wondering what is going on.

Depression makes me tired and apathetic and I'm struggling to pull my self out of that hole, a recent 4 weeks off amphetamines just saw this get worse, hence the recent binge.

Recent visits to my doctor haven't helped at all, I've just gone back on the ADs I was on before as no other options seemed open to me, I've spoken to him time and time again about my fatigue but he just puts it down to depression.

Interested in other peoples views
 
Depression and apathy are huge causes of fatigue. How long did/have you abused stims for? A 4 week break would be great for your tolerance but would do next to nothing to get over a long term stim habit. You would have still been going through some withdrawals, which is probably why you felt the depression was only getting worse and not better. Binging will only make you feel better short-term and the issue of withdrawals and depression is what you should be looking at fixing.

Does your doctor know of your history? The more information they have, the better they can treat your current problems.
 
My stim use goes back 20 years but always used to be a party / weekend thing.

The last 10 years it been more of a weekend binge, with the weekend varying in frequency but lately averaging a 3 day binge every 2 weeks.

I use amphetamine sulphate ( or what is sold as base in the UK ) which I've used on and off for those 20 years but never had a daily habit so I'm not sure physical dependence is really an issue today.

My doctor is aware of my past drug abuse issues and I would be willing to speak to him about what's happening now but the last 2 visits have been pointless, he seemed disinterested and unconcerned about my current state of mind. I'm not great at talking about such things, in the past I've resorted to taking my partner as she has the ability to push for a bit more action.
 
You sound like me a few years ago.

You need a longer break than 4 weeks. (can take a long time)

It only gets worse, trust me.

I wouldn't bother seeing a doctor for now.. There is no methadone for stimulants and the only thing they will do is throw you on anti-depressants.. something which, imo, really isn't needed (just yet).. You need to rediscover yourself. Get out and do things you enjoy and put yourself in situations you'd be in while on stimulants; without stimulants. It fckin sucks at first but try and try and try again you must.
 
Allein, reading your post what comes across to me is that you know that something has shifted from enjoyable to harmful and you need to listen carefully to what you know. That hole of depression is definitely going to get worse with continued binges. Sometimes it only takes small changes to change a life and sometimes it takes radical changes but what ever it takes, it is within your power to do it. It takes courage to have faith in yourself. I hope that you get some relief soon.<3
 
I've thought very hard about self harm and I honestly could write a book on it.

I have had very small struggles with self harm in the past nothing serious, but I see it all around me with my friends and people I know. Self harm and self hatred are very dangerous things, something you should sort out immediately. Using drugs to solve your problems stop them from being fun, eurphoric experience, to nothing more than a numbing high. It is a very bad path and also very pathetic to be frank. It shows weakness in yourself that you cannot solve your own problems. Regardless of your depression you are in charge of your own happiness and only you are the only one can change that. Accepting for things as they are and self love are your only ways to stop abusing, and toward success in your life. Good luck friend.
 
feedmesauce said:
I've thought very hard about self harm and I honestly could write a book on it.

I have had very small struggles with self harm in the past nothing serious, but I see it all around me with my friends and people I know. Self harm and self hatred are very dangerous things, something you should sort out immediately. Using drugs to solve your problems stop them from being fun, eurphoric experience, to nothing more than a numbing high. It is a very bad path and also very pathetic to be frank. It shows weakness in yourself that you cannot solve your own problems. Regardless of your depression you are in charge of your own happiness and only you are the only one can change that. Accepting for things as they are and self love are your only ways to stop abusing, and toward success in your life. Good luck friend.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that and you captain, your words are succinct but so well considered.

I tend to agree with the above, I have stopped some very destructive substance abuse over the last few years:-

I have completely stopped drinking which had become totally out of control

I've stopped taking Benzos and had a 300mg a day Diaz habit for far to long

I've stopped smoking both hash and tobacco

I've stopped taking Coke - an odd substance that I felt compelled to use despite not enjoying it for the most part

I've stopped taking MDMA which I use for a good 8 years at quite high levels

I'm coming to the conclusion that controlled and occasional use of amphetamines (once every 3-4 weeks at a weekend) has more positives than negatives for me with the caveat that I can't deal with drugs when I'm suffering a depressive episiode, it's not so much that Amphetamines make me worse but that I abuse them in this state as I feel it's OK to abuse myself and the resultant comedown seems like something I deserve.

I guess in an ideal world I would not take any active chemicals but it is something I enjoy and I know how to use Amphetamines with minimal impact, bear in mind I work 5 days a week and never go sick. I feel the need for some kind of release or reward for all the abstinence and hard work and the extra motivation can prove useful for getting stuff done at the weekend.

My mood has greatly improved over the last couple of weeks giving me greater clarity, just like other substances amphetamines can be used in a controlled manner without developing an addiction or problematic habitual use. I've used them for years without really significant issues unlike the substances listed above which I know I have to treat with extreme caution.

My partner is aware of my drug use and pulls me up if she thinks I'm sliding towards using too much, it is a vice but one I'm going to live with for a while and see if I'm able to continue to use in a manner which is not causing me problems.

As far as depression being within my gift to resolve in essence I don't disagree, but this has always been an issue for me and one that n the last few years has seen it become more of a problem. Earlier in the year I came off an AD as I thought I was ready and that it was holding me back but I slid back into a darker place and along with it drug use turned started becoming abuse, mainly due to such devastating depression and suicidal thoughts as well as deep self loathing.
Drug abuse in these situations is self harm for me, it's bit counter productive calling it pathetic, it's a symptom of an illness and a complex one at that with regard to happiness I haven't even understood what that really means for a very long time, if I ever did, it's not a goal at the moment I'm more interested in feeling OK about myself and improving my relationships with others, maybe happiness will come in time, maybe not.

I restarted the AD about 6 weeks ago I went back on the AD and those symptoms have greatly improved, enabling me to do more positive things to improve my own situation. I've done CBT so I understand why you are making some of the comments you are but you over simplify what is a clinical condition, you can't use NLP techniques to fix this stuff. For me some of it is rooted in my childhood and my family relationships, other stuff I've picked up along the way and is deep seated thought patterns that need to be discarded not fixed.

I'm grateful for everyone's words challenging and otherwise, I've come a long way in becoming a more fulfilled person but I have to learn by my own mistakes, I've beaten a number of problematic substance issues as well as some other physical health problems and I'm starting to feel like I'm reconstructing a new me, not trying to fix the old one ( I lost that version a good while ago )

I'll be checking in from time to time as I've grown fond of TDS and I'm relying on you people for your words of wisdom<3
 
I think that issues of self-loathing are most acute in ultra-sensitive people. Everyone gets the same shit-storm of media hype thrown at them that causes feelings of inadequacy even in those that fit the image (they never think they do deep down) and everyone has varying degrees of dysfunction in family relationships; but when you are an ultra sensitive person you feel everything more intensely and you internalize all that negativity in a way that others can let roll off. It is a gift to be a very sensitive person but also a curse depending on how well you learn yourself and your own part in holding onto what comes in from the outside. Life is going to roll through each of us bringing suffering and pleasure, joy and grief and if we can learn that the only thing we have control over is our reaction and response, it goes a long way towards ease and peace inside. One thing that has taken me years to come to terms with is my propensity to see the darker side of things. Rather than trying to deny that I have learned to simply make a point of appreciating what is good in my world every day--as a very intentional practice. This has acted as a way to balance my pessimism and helps me to not drown in a very dark view.

I hope that you can continue to feel better, Allein. You wrote a beautiful response to someone else in the suicide thread a couple of days ago. You have all the compassion and wisdom inside to give to yourself as well. <3
 
Allein said:
Thanks for that and you captain, your words are succinct but so well considered.

I tend to agree with the above, I have stopped some very destructive substance abuse over the last few years:-

I have completely stopped drinking which had become totally out of control

I've stopped taking Benzos and had a 300mg a day Diaz habit for far to long

I've stopped smoking both hash and tobacco

I've stopped taking Coke - an odd substance that I felt compelled to use despite not enjoying it for the most part

I've stopped taking MDMA which I use for a good 8 years at quite high levels

I'm coming to the conclusion that controlled and occasional use of amphetamines (once every 3-4 weeks at a weekend) has more positives than negatives for me with the caveat that I can't deal with drugs when I'm suffering a depressive episiode, it's not so much that Amphetamines make me worse but that I abuse them in this state as I feel it's OK to abuse myself and the resultant comedown seems like something I deserve.

I guess in an ideal world I would not take any active chemicals but it is something I enjoy and I know how to use Amphetamines with minimal impact, bear in mind I work 5 days a week and never go sick. I feel the need for some kind of release or reward for all the abstinence and hard work and the extra motivation can prove useful for getting stuff done at the weekend.

My mood has greatly improved over the last couple of weeks giving me greater clarity, just like other substances amphetamines can be used in a controlled manner without developing an addiction or problematic habitual use. I've used them for years without really significant issues unlike the substances listed above which I know I have to treat with extreme caution.

My partner is aware of my drug use and pulls me up if she thinks I'm sliding towards using too much, it is a vice but one I'm going to live with for a while and see if I'm able to continue to use in a manner which is not causing me problems.

As far as depression being within my gift to resolve in essence I don't disagree, but this has always been an issue for me and one that n the last few years has seen it become more of a problem. Earlier in the year I came off an AD as I thought I was ready and that it was holding me back but I slid back into a darker place and along with it drug use turned started becoming abuse, mainly due to such devastating depression and suicidal thoughts as well as deep self loathing.
Drug abuse in these situations is self harm for me, it's bit counter productive calling it pathetic, it's a symptom of an illness and a complex one at that with regard to happiness I haven't even understood what that really means for a very long time, if I ever did, it's not a goal at the moment I'm more interested in feeling OK about myself and improving my relationships with others, maybe happiness will come in time, maybe not.

I restarted the AD about 6 weeks ago I went back on the AD and those symptoms have greatly improved, enabling me to do more positive things to improve my own situation. I've done CBT so I understand why you are making some of the comments you are but you over simplify what is a clinical condition, you can't use NLP techniques to fix this stuff. For me some of it is rooted in my childhood and my family relationships, other stuff I've picked up along the way and is deep seated thought patterns that need to be discarded not fixed.

I'm grateful for everyone's words challenging and otherwise, I've come a long way in becoming a more fulfilled person but I have to learn by my own mistakes, I've beaten a number of problematic substance issues as well as some other physical health problems and I'm starting to feel like I'm reconstructing a new me, not trying to fix the old one ( I lost that version a good while ago )

I'll be checking in from time to time as I've grown fond of TDS and I'm relying on you people for your words of wisdom<3
Click to expand...


I agree that calling it pathetic shows a lack of understanding of depression itself and the resulting issues that goes with it. I am quite sure if someone were able to give the OP (or myself or anyone else that suffers this way) a "task" to complete that would make it all go away, even a difficutl one, then one would work their ass off to do it. I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would feel that depression (along with all that goes with it) is ever considered something that you make a choice about. Yes there are some things that can be done to improve the environment but not many people shoose to be in this state of mind. And when you find something that relieves it, even temporarily, it is difficult to choose not to pursue it despite the other "complications" it might cause in life.

Good luck OP..
 
herbavore said:
I think that issues of self-loathing are most acute in ultra-sensitive people. Everyone gets the same shit-storm of media hype thrown at them that causes feelings of inadequacy even in those that fit the image (they never think they do deep down) and everyone has varying degrees of dysfunction in family relationships; but when you are an ultra sensitive person you feel everything more intensely and you internalize all that negativity in a way that others can let roll off. It is a gift to be a very sensitive person but also a curse depending on how well you learn yourself and your own part in holding onto what comes in from the outside. Life is going to roll through each of us bringing suffering and pleasure, joy and grief and if we can learn that the only thing we have control over is our reaction and response, it goes a long way towards ease and peace inside. One thing that has taken me years to come to terms with is my propensity to see the darker side of things. Rather than trying to deny that I have learned to simply make a point of appreciating what is good in my world every day--as a very intentional practice. This has acted as a way to balance my pessimism and helps me to not drown in a very dark view.

I hope that you can continue to feel better, Allein. You wrote a beautiful response to someone else in the suicide thread a couple of days ago. You have all the compassion and wisdom inside to give to yourself as well. <3
Click to expand...

I relate very strongly to those words Herb, there have been times when I've often feel like I don't have the filters others seem to have and as a consequence react to things that just wash over others. I also crave relationships that have a depth that most are not able or willing to provide, I want to share my inner feelings about life and existence and reality and try and connect at a deeper level, the expectations are unrealistic and as a consequence I have few friends.

I've begun to understand this a little more and start to except it rather than worry about it, I am managing to from some friendships but am not expecting more than a bit of friendship, if I get more then it would be a welcome surprise. My partner often says a think too much and too deeply about things but that is just the way I am.

I stopped blaming external things and people for my problems a few years ago when I had a breakdown, I realised how I'd been blaming members of my family for my unhappiness and how unfair and counter productive that was. I spoke to them about it, I didn't really get the conversation I wanted but I explained myself and asked for forgiveness which was enough for me. My relationship with my father has always fallen short of what I wanted, but now a recognise this as a sadness for him as he is unable to reach out and articulate his love.

I do care so much for others and have strong spiritual beliefs that we are all part of the same mystery our apparent individuality could be described as a wave rising from the ocean of energy and consciousness that is everything and more, we are truly privileged to have the opportunity to comprehend this in a tangible and objective way. In the past I've got side tracked on the nature of reality and it fed into mental illness as I started to disbelieve in my own existence. All the spiritual stuff is fine but I have to focus on living in the here and now, being a good person and bettering myself through the way I live and interact with others, these are the things that are important for this part of the journey for me.

I can become so lost in my own anxieties and crippling depression as well as the self loathing that I lose sight of the all the good things and darkness descends and there is no joy in my life and I cease to interact with others in a positive way, which just makes things worse.

I have been feeling more positive in the last few weeks, suicidal feelings have left me and I want to build on this to get some momentum behind a more positive and active life. I need to find an outlet for my creativity which is stifled in my work, I've stopped listening to music or watching films.

It really is time for a change and I feel I can now see a path to follow rather than a dark tunnel to get lost in.
 
I'm grateful for your input Captain and trying to be mindful about any substances I take.

I've successfully avoided the things I ceased taking due to addiction or there negative impact, abstinence in those cases has been both successful and of benefit, I had no chance of moving forward when I was immersed in a fog of alcohol and Diazepam.

I have been a substance user since childhood, so it is engrained behaviour but much of it throughout my life remained recreational and largely positive, it's not the drugs that cause me harm but they way I choose to use them.

I understand many people will be of the opinion that using any recreational drugs can only make my situation worse and at some level they are of course correct. But I am not striving to be perfect and whilst I can limit my use to a modest amount every 2-3 weeks on a weekend I don't think I need to deny myself the pleasure, I tolerate Amphetamines well and apart from tiredness suffer little. This weekend I controlled my intake without issue and slept last night, I don't feel compelled to redose so for the time being I'm not going to beat myself up about it.

In the past I have used drugs in a very negative way, Benzos and alcohol probably has the biggest impact but Cocaine and MDPV were also damaging, this usage clearly strayed into my category of self harm, I despised myself and treated myself accordingly eventually leading to a stay in secure care.

I'm not sure how much is down to restarting an AD I stopped taking at the start of the year and how much is just me moving on but I feel more positive these last few weeks. A few family issues have improved, I've got to grips with a difficult situation at work but the absence of thoughts of suicide is the biggest change, I find them extremely upsetting and only really talk about them here as my partner finds it to painful to discuss and I worry about leaning on her too much. A serious injury I sustained in a motorcycle accident over 12 months ago is finally settling down a bit and I've managed to stop taking MST, my walking isn't great but I can walk for which I am grateful, I donlt think I've really managed to understand the impact of the accident has had on me as yet.

Sorry for the rambling post, a bit of a thought dump, you managed to provoke some serious thought with those few words Captain as I said before succinct<3
 
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