Misc A process for making legal drugs out of herbs and foods?!?

[Jeebus Mic]

So I've been doing a lot of research on herbal medicine lately, and I stumbled across this video that I found really interesting.

https://vimeo.com/70960707

'Confined Decarboxylization and Vaporization of Organic Compounds' is a process that utilizes a heat conductive pressure proof vessel. The vessel is filled with organic material and the temperature is raised above the boiling point of the targeted compounds. This forces the compounds to vaporize while containing them. Once vaporization temperature has been reached, the vessel is rapidly cooled, condensing the vapors back onto the material they came from. This produces a vapor film that is readily water soluble and very easy to work with. This creates many options for administration such as tea, gel-caps or direct ingestion. Also, this process dramatically increases potency of anything being treated. For example, when Marijuana leaves and stems are treated, dosage is only 3 or 4 grams. As we all know, you could eat very large amounts of leaves and stems with little to no effect. Oftentimes, the very biological action of the compound is dramatically changed. For example, treated raw coffee becomes very opiate-like. We have been sampling these treated compounds for over a year and have noticed that all of them possess qualities that seem to inhibit tolerance and have also experienced no negative side effects.

So this is really interesting. The things they have already tried, like Black Pepper, Oats, etc., that we ALL know would never get you high, somehow become psychoactive when you go through this process. How is this possible?

Does anyone, with a better chemistry background than me, have any idea why this could be working? It seems impossible to get psychoactive opioids out of oats, and beef.

So yeah, needless to say I'm interested. I am going to head to the hardware store right now and buy a pipe, and I will try this and get back to you guys in the next few days.

 

[bunge]

This smells a little of bullshit to me!lol
Vaporization and condensing of a chemical is by no means a new idea but i fail to see how re-condensing it would change the molecule enough to change its pharmacological action or massively affect its solubility....having said that, ive been wrong in the past and if it holfs any truth then it would certainly be interesting.

 

[sekio]

placebo effect

or if you don't clean your equipment and get weed residue on your granola.... then of course you will get high

cannabis leaves are "activated" by heating them to e.g. 140C for 30min. this decarboxylates the inactive THCA and turns it into the psychoactive THC. this is well known.

 

[ebola?]

Off-topic: is THCA truly inactive or just poorly absorbed and/or decarboxylated in vivo? Production of 'green dragon' sans any introduction of heat works fine, oddly...

ebola

 

[RobotRipping]

^that's always been a topic of debate it seems; it'd be nice to get a real answer. When i was like 17 or so i ate like 2 grams of just pure cannabis lol not knowing any better, but i fell asleep and woke up high the next morning, like really high. I haven't repeated the experiment because it's disgusting but it could have been placebo but i didn't expect to wake up high.

and as you say, green dragon works, as well you could make BHO and not heat at 140C to obtain an extraction that is highly effective, butane evaporates at room temps or even slightly below, can't remember, so doesn't that say something? yes, most people smoke it anyway but i'm sure people have taken BHO and put it on something without heat and had effects.

 

[sekio]

I think THCA slowly decarboxylates at room temperature. Even freshly picked cannabis plants will have a baseline level of THC in them. (explaining why green dragon works).

It's known that you can decarboxylate cannabis and eat it raw to get a psychoactive effect. (c.f. old hippy's cannabis caps) But it's less efficient than baking it into goods, and doesn't always work when the herb isn't decarboxylated.

 

[Anon610]

placebo effect

or if you don't clean your equipment and get weed residue on your granola.... then of course you will get high

cannabis leaves are "activated" by heating them to e.g. 140C for 30min. this decarboxylates the inactive THCA and turns it into the psychoactive THC. this is well known.

I always thought it was converted to 11-Hydroxy-THC. Which is what it converts to after it metabolizes

 

[sekio]

Nope, that's a different compound entirely.

Also related is the acid isomerisation of CBD to THC. That used to be a popular method of increasing potency of hash oils.

(also, 11-nor-9-COOH-THC does not decarboxylate like the cannabinoid acids. why, you ask? because the alcohol probably tautomerises into a beta-keto acid, which are well documented to decarboxylate. The heat is needed to drive the equilibrium towards the ketone form though, because it's not very energetically favourable (resonance stabilisation of the phenol is probably quite strong). )

 

[Jeebus Mic]

I think THCA slowly decarboxylates at room temperature. Even freshly picked cannabis plants will have a baseline level of THC in them. (explaining why green dragon works).

It's known that you can decarboxylate cannabis and eat it raw to get a psychoactive effect. (c.f. old hippy's cannabis caps) But it's less efficient than baking it into goods, and doesn't always work when the herb isn't decarboxylated.

Forget the marijuana one.. what about all the other spices they say work, like Basil and Chamomile? On another site, people tried it and say it works. I think it's bullshit. Someone says 50% Basil and 50% Chamomile got them fucked up after eating 5 spoons of it after this process.

I didn't even write the OP. I pasted it from the site I found it on.

 

[sekio]

I question that very much. Ostensibly there are some people that would claim that e.g. smoking banana skins will get you high.

The silly wiki they have set up has such bullshit claims as cinammon being "as effective as amphetamine" as a stimulant. Or coffee being an opioid. (Curiously they also claim that the essential oils liberated through heating are water soluble... which they are just not!)

Of course, apparently *none* of these preparations have any side effects at all, and tolerance *never* develops.

This leads to 2 options.

1. You really can make powerful drugs in your kitchenm, safely, that have no side effects at all. Medicinal chemistry has been wasting the last ~300 years doing nothing.
2. It's placebo effect hard at work.

Basil: Euphoric stimulant. Very fast acting.[...] Has effects very similar to Adderall.

I seriously, seriously doubt it. Pesto pizza does not make me tweak.

 

[mrflowers00]

black pepper contains a chemical called peperiazine sp? which acts as a mild stimulant and analgesic

 

[sekio]

It's piperine you're thinking of, and it's very very mild. More appropriartely, it's the spicy compound in pepper. Also, not present in pepper at a very high concentration.

 

[RobotRipping]

well you can certainly eat a tea spoon of ground up fresh nutmeg and get really high. lol

i can't think of any common food items or herbs used in food that get you fucked up, apparently rosemary is intoxicating in some way, i don't know.

 

[electrodevo]

i can't think of any common food items or herbs used in food that get you fucked up, apparently rosemary is intoxicating in some way, i don't know.

Many of the common herbs they list *do* contain oils that are / may be pharmacologically active... just not in a way that "gets you fucked up". Nutmeg's deliriant effect is one of the few I can think of that is known.

Others are really more on the line of chamomile. Chamomile tea does seem to mildly enhance the sleepies but that's about it, it's subtle. (There's been reports in the literature that something in chamomile does bind to GABA, they haven't figured out what yet or other details.) Other herbs are kind of that way, you have to basically eat a shit ton to feel any pharmacologically active part of it.

(Mind you, some of said compounds *can* be made into drugs... with way more advanced chemistry than simply heating something in a pipe with a lot of pressure. *shrug*)