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Psychedelics and critical thinking.

Anon0631

Anon0631

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
711
Location
London, UK
This forum seems to be unusually littered with psudo-science, absurdly improbable theories, nonsensical proclamations and other forms of bunk. Basically the result of poeople repeating what they have heard/read/been told elsewhere without switching on their bullshit filters.

Presumably most of the people who post here take psychedelics, which leads me to a hypothesis. Does psychedelic use reduce our capacity for critical, analytical thought?

A rough review of sources (both here and elsewhere on the web) seems to suggest that people who take mainly ergaloids suffer from this most while people who take mainly phenethylamines suffer from this least. Tryptamine users seem to fall somewhere in the middle.

This is all based on informal observation so before I get flamed by the zealots, it's an idea I'm playing with rather than a fully formed belief at this point.

I would like to hear people's view on the subject.
 
first can someone give me an example of an ergoloid?

are you a cup half empty kind of person?
of course we should not take anyone else's word for truth and should come to our own conclusions on topics
but i feel that its a positive thing that psychedelics open us up to thinking outside of the box

if someone who takes psychedelics starts believing in absurd conspiracy theories then i dont think its the psychedelic you can blame, but its the individual who was already gullible or susceptible to latching on to ideas without analysing them critically, i think it would already be a part of their personality and not directly influenced by their drug use
 
I'd love to know what other boards you post on if you truly feel that way about this one.

While I do feel there are a few crackpots around that I have encountered, along with pseudo-science, blanket statements, absurd theories and the like, it is still at a lower level than anywhere else Ive yet to encounter when topics pertain to drugs.

Its not perfect, but I don't see anyone going around telling people not to take acid too often because it leaks your spinal fluid.
 
I'm a "cup's twice the volume it needs to be" kind of person. And there's a difference between thinking outside the box and denying the contents of the box altogether.

Who was it who said that its important to have an open mind but not so open that your brain falls out?

Oh... And LSD is an ergaloid.
 
Perhaps it is your skills of persuasion that are not allowing you to successfully get your point across. Personally I see psychedelics in particular as an ego inducing family of drugs that create a fantasy world so strong that it is impossible you the individual to believe it is an illusion.

Then again you are judging philosophical ideas on a forum of drug users. Not everyone who takes psychedelics wants to waste their time debating ideas on the internet.
 
what evidence then can you use to back up your claim that psychedelic use causes people to lose their ability to critically examine and analyse ideas?

i dont see the relation between the two and i know it hasn't effected my personal ability to reason
 
Mysterie said:
what evidence then can you use to back up your claim that psychedelic use causes people to lose their ability to critically examine and analyse ideas?
Click to expand...

As stated in my original post, I haven't conducted a rigid experimental analysis of forum posts, counted user's reported drug experiences and cross referenced the two (yet?). I have however perceived a pattern and wanted to open the idea to others to discuss.
 
Anon0631 said:
As stated in my original post, I haven't conducted a rigid experimental analysis of forum posts, counted user's reported drug experiences and cross referenced the two (yet?). I have however perceived a pattern and wanted to open the idea to others to discuss.
Click to expand...

Outside of threads relating to MagickDuck, can you think of any threads or anything where people actually do this? I don't see too much science on this forum the first place, pseudoscience or not.
 
jesus fucking christ maybe Ive just had my bullshit filter, as you would call it, on too high of a level..

finger cramping from impure lsd :rofl:

rofl.

i dont even.
 
I think it has more to do with general gullibility than with taking psychedelics. Around the time when I started taking psychedelics I was really in to that consciousness stuff. But now that I have a good amount of experiences under my belt, and even though the question still intrigues me, I understand that no one has the answers (yet). Now, much more of my brain goes in to understanding the psychological aspect of tripping. In a way, psychedelics have enhanced my critical thinking.

You're just on the internet, man. It's full of idiots 8)
 
I've said this before but it probably bears repeating: i think psychedelics simply lower our threshold of criticality- hence everything is accepted as new and "Craazy maan". I'm not suggesting there aren't insights to be had from hallucinogens it's just that in the cold light of day some of those insights seem a bit more pedestrian and obvious than they did at the time.
And as for the internet: you can be anything you want on line, so why do most people choose to be idiots?!
 
And I choose to be the idiot police :-)

What about the proposition that some classes of psychedelics threaten critical thinking more than others? At this point we are sure to experience a flood of comments from the "LSD is the only valid psychedelic" brigade but maybe we can read around those posts.
 
I think such proposition is wholly speculative and in no way measurable.

Perceptions are not always reality, which really is a pretty common theme around the PD forum.

I don't think the people you are coming across are specific to any one group or subclass of drugs, they're just people who were likely as stupid as they appear to be before, during, and after drug use. Its also nowhere near localized to psychedelics.

Without getting philosophical or into the origins of why people use psychedelics its pretty damn simple to just say it flat out: people are stupid and gullible, and drug use, or lack thereof will not change this attribute in many if not all. Doing a psychedelic one day isn't going to eliminate someones cognitive ability to question something, at least I hope - such people are born that way. You're always going to come across the ex raver from the 90s talking about the blue superman's from the summer of 03 that were 99.8% pure MDMA and the most legit stuff you could get because they were in the scene. You're always going to come across the dude who thinks that because its from a plant it is inherently and infinitely safer than something made in a lab. The people who claim LSD is practically natural but denounce any more recent synthetic because they're made in a lab. Just blindingly stupid shit that is beyond your level of comprehension. Psychedelics have absolutely nothing to do with it. People are just retarded.

Its wonderful to think that everybody is equal and we're all capable of the same levels of cognition, but the simple truth is we're not all built the same and some people are just dumb.
 
Hmm. I like to think that brain is a muscle that can be trained. I also believe that I have positively shaped that muscle with psychedelics. During my days of regular LSD use I definitely didn't think as critically as I do now my psychedelic use is mostly limited to phenethylamines. Mind you I'm also 20 years older so it doesn't prove much at all.
 
everyone reacts differently to psychedelics because everyone thinks a little differently

as far as critical thinking goes, I mean, you either have it or you dont really

psychs arent going to make or break that
 
Could also be due to different channels of distribution - buying from a website and having to do your own research to some extent vs. knowing a guy who knows this dude who knows a guy who's stuff is totally legit, maaaan, 'cuz he's in the "scene" don't ya know. Other contributing factors may include having a credit card in your own name and a place to receive dubious packages at, and a job to pay for all of these things, instead of still being in school and living in a dorm or at your parents' house.

Of course I'm well aware that there are plenty of responsible LSD/shroom users out there, as well as idiots who use research chemicals. You could test your theory by polling aficionados of RC tryptamines...personally I don't think they have a tendency to be any more superstitious than those of us who prefer phenethylamines.
 
The OP's thread is hilariously ironic lol

Perhaps instead of assuming you're the bastion of critical thinking (calling yourself the "idiot police" *shudders*), consider that you may not be all that. You're just speculating without any compelling evidence to support your claims.

And I have to say, I deeply resented the condescending and arrogant tone of your comment to me recently:

Anon0631 said:
Why on earth would a couple of micrograms of ink of a certain colour make you puke? Come on! Engage some critical thinking.
Click to expand...

I was completely open to the idea that it was psychological. While you may say that an allergic reaction of sorts to a certain kind of ink is improbable, to say that it's impossible you'd at least have to have an awful lot of knowledge about ink and allergic reactions (which I assume you don't).
 
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