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What do you consider to be, 'clean and sober'?

^^you bring up a valid point (I've thought about this fact especially in relation to pill mills). this is kind of a grey area in my opinion (my view is look at the section in the NA basic text in "more will be revealed" called in times of illness or the information pamphlet labeled "in times of illness" which states that we are ultimately the one who decides if we need the medication or if we are manifesting pain or abusing the system pretty much). and I'm doing pretty well :D starting my forth step now
 
Thats awesome 101.. My opinion on the fourth step is to identify ANYTHING in the memory that causes any emotion, allot of people leave out fear, please don't.. lets you think about tomorrow;) I know this..>> list<<..is big but as it comprises so many of the weapons of addiction take a look as you take your inventory and include as many of the memories and events associated with all these emotions.. doning this can only help and will never hurt.. but then again four and five poke at the wounds our addictions overinflate to drive use. your so close to walking out light as a child of four, before we waited ourselves down.. after you feel as light as feather completing five... look up at the stars when you get to see them and PM if you think about it. NIce Work Seron=D

edit: please realize that my intentions are all good,, and do what you think is best.. your strong and I dont want to fk w anything<3
 
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Sero, you are on fire right now (in a good way :D ). Go for it and don't look back!
 
thank ya family :D its my third forth step but like it says in the literature "the first time only scratched the surface". but you're right, its the "most loving thing we can do for ourselves". I'm taking a break tonight on it, gonna talk to my sponsor, his wife and my grand sponsor.

edit: I'm book marking that list of emotions. that's fucking badass.
 
Clean- completely off of any and all drugs- marijuana, alcohol, ecstasy, psyches etc, unless it is a non-abusable drug taken only as prescribed by a doctor and bought through a pharmacy, not off your mom because you just had your teeth fix and she was trying to help you out. Call me a hypocrite for not considering tobacco a count against my recovery if you must.

sober- can be used both ways but when I think sober I mostly think just off of alcohol. I've known many an alcoholic to consider themselves such even though they find no problem in smoking weed and snorting adderall, but hey- whatever works?
 
Personally, what I am trying to achieve is not clean and sober, so some people get confused when they ask me these days if I'm clean and I say no but I am not using everyday either like I used to. I explain that I try not to focus too much on getting completely clean and sober, because while that might be the ultimate goal in the end, right now I am more focused on actually maintaining functioning and not falling to deep into the depths of depression.

So while I might have switched my daily benzo/opiate/gabapentin use for weed at the moment, I know it's just a temporary thing as I already want to stop smoking but the anxiety/pain from PAWS are killing me and every time I've stopped smoking it has led to relapse to either benzos or opiates so for now, I'll accept this trade.

I really dislike the term "clean and sober" to be honest, because people (at least those who never were addicts) seem to kind of confuse this with "off drugs and happy". Which is not the same thing at all. You can be clean and sober and be so deep into depression that things are just as shitty as when having a daily heroin habit.
 
Toz said:
I really dislike the term "clean and sober" to be honest, because people (at least those who never were addicts) seem to kind of confuse this with "off drugs and happy". Which is not the same thing at all. You can be clean and sober and be so deep into depression that things are just as shitty as when having a daily heroin habit.
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I think this is kind of like what they call being a "dry drunk" in AA. I agree it is confusing and none of these terms are all that useful for a casual explanation of where you are in regards to your addiction. I know where I want to be, and that's where I was when I finally quit alcohol and was off all substances. A state I guess I'd call "abstaining and healing". I feel like I stopped "doing the work" so I'm not as emotionally healthy as I could be. I don't think I'll get to where I need to be until I really lay all my cards out on the table.

I've just never found clean and sober to be that useful of a phrase for me personally.
 
For me, clean and sober means I don't use anything to change my mood or thoughts. Personally, I have a zero tolerance policy.

For the rest of the world, it needs to mean what they need it to mean. In fact, I prefer to replace the term 'clean and sober' with 'in recovery', with no judgment attached to it. If someone needs to quit drinking, but keep smoking weed, not only is that there choice, but it's one that needs to be respected. They're still receovering whether I think they are or not.

I, myself, cannot safely use any drug. Period. For me to do so leads to really bad things. That doesn't mean that applies to everyone else.
 
bluesfortheredsun said:
For me, clean and sober means I don't use anything to change my mood or thoughts. Personally, I have a zero tolerance policy.

For the rest of the world, it needs to mean what they need it to mean. In fact, I prefer to replace the term 'clean and sober' with 'in recovery', with no judgment attached to it. If someone needs to quit drinking, but keep smoking weed, not only is that there choice, but it's one that needs to be respected. They're still receovering whether I think they are or not.

I, myself, cannot safely use any drug. Period. For me to do so leads to really bad things. That doesn't mean that applies to everyone else.
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Self awareness and honesty with oneself, while maintaining an open mind and tolerance for diversity is so rare in this world. Thank you for sharing that. I also like feralkitten's phrase "abstaining and healing" as opposed to "clean and sober"; the term clean has always bothered me as the flip side is "dirty" which is a word loaded with shame and I see shame as such a powerful hook of addiction.
 
bluesfortheredsun said:
For me, clean and sober means I don't use anything to change my mood or thoughts. Personally, I have a zero tolerance policy.

For the rest of the world, it needs to mean what they need it to mean. In fact, I prefer to replace the term 'clean and sober' with 'in recovery', with no judgment attached to it. If someone needs to quit drinking, but keep smoking weed, not only is that there choice, but it's one that needs to be respected. They're still receovering whether I think they are or not.

I, myself, cannot safely use any drug. Period. For me to do so leads to really bad things. That doesn't mean that applies to everyone else.
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That was a great take on the subject. And knowing that we can really only judge ourselves it becomes even more important for us to know what that phrase means to us 'clean and sober'. Stay strong and take what life gives you and give thanks. Even if you're at rock bottom, you have nowhere else to go but up.
 
How many of you say you're "sober" when you still use cannabis? (legal or otherwise)

Just curious how many recovering addicts like myself consider cannabis to be a drug when every avenue in your life doesn't consider it a drug.

For example, my ex-wife who I share my son with doesn't really consider it a drug, so I get to smoke pot.

My work doesn't really consider it a drug, so I get to smoke pot.

My friends don't really care or consume themselves, so I get to smoke pot.




Basically, if it's not a problem in your lifestyle, if it isn't eating your money -- is it really a problem? Can you really call yourself "sober" if you continue to use cannabis in a medicinal setting?
 
the idea of 'clean' is silly, there are drugs in the foods you eat.

if clean is being clean of your DOC, then that's fine but you'll never be clean of all drugs. Stupid AA talk. Probably pretty funny to see them spout that bullshit as they take a swig of their coffee and light another smoke.
 
I consider moderation of the things I need to live properly the closest thing to 'sober' as I'll ever agree on with anyone. There is just no point sometimes in trying to explain to someone whose brainwashed themselves into thinking 'clean' means abstinence from all illegal narcotics. The US was founded on slavery and cannabis growing, and now it is a much different place. I refuse to believe those people get to dictate what substances I consume. On a good day I will just tell everyone I'm clean though, plain and simple.

-dp
 
I get medical cannibas - I've never considered weed a 'real drug'. Of course, it is a drug- a mind altering substance! However, I've always been able to put it down on a moments notice and I often do. I find it can become boring, or that it starts to produce anxiety, or that it irritates my throat, etc. At these times I can just let it go and come back to it. Opiates? No way. Even at the small doses I'm taking now I realize my addiction problem. If I go without I'll feel the consequences. So opiates and weed are - to me - in completely different hemispheres.

So for me, it's the drugs like benzo's and opiates that I feel are much greater threats to my mental health than weed. I don't do enough of any of those drugs to affect my physical health- but benzo's and opiates have damaged my mental health horribly.
 
hey all,for me this is synchronicity.
I just signed up here to ask same question.
I go to AA,just meetings no steps,but smoke before and after.everyday.
I am on subs after an 8 year long absurd opiate addiction.
I will introduce myself here soon,just wanted to chime in since this is
where I'm at.
 
I really believe that this question has to be defined by the individual to a certain extent. In the instance of weed, many people that use it medicinally for sleep, say, would not consider this any more problematic than using caffeine to get going in the morning--and yet both of these substances can be abused and are certainly habit-forming. So, it comes down to self-awareness, brutal honesty with yourself and then feeling good about the opinion you arrive at for yourself. One of the most self-defeating behaviors I see in recovery is the tendency to assume that one size fits all. I don't think it does.
 
stilllost said:
Just curious how many recovering addicts like myself consider cannabis to be a drug when every avenue in your life doesn't consider it a drug.

For example, my ex-wife who I share my son with doesn't really consider it a drug, so I get to smoke pot.

My work doesn't really consider it a drug, so I get to smoke pot.

My friends don't really care or consume themselves, so I get to smoke pot.

Basically, if it's not a problem in your lifestyle, if it isn't eating your money -- is it really a problem? Can you really call yourself "sober" if you continue to use cannabis in a medicinal setting?
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It's pretty simple: If you still smoke pot then you're not sober since you're using and abusing a drug since you said you smoke it 24/7 and stay high all day. Also you're not fooling anyone by going to meetings very stoned.

Do you actually want to become sober? I know many addicts who like to fool themselves into thinking they can smoke herb but it's just a substitute addiction or a substitute drug, masked as "medicine" or "self medication", and then they return to abusing their drug(s) of choice including alcohol, opiates, or benzos.

I wouldn't say that it's morally wrong to go to AA while you smoke herb but it is hypocritical and you shouldn't call yourself sober. As you're not sober or completely sober if you do smoke herb and use other drugs.

Honestly though it's good that you're questioning this and that you realize this about yourself. Sometimes it takes people multiple tries before they actually want to become sober and do stop using drugs. Some people do it in steps with stopping alcohol or opiates first, and then quitting smoking/using herb, or others stop smoking/using herb and/or opiates first and then get sober from alcohol.
 
Differs from person to person of course, I had the chance to be put into rehab for my alcohol addiction and be giving Chlordiazepoxide for my withdrawals. But it would mean moving from my home to some where I don't know, and being away from family which is what you need in this situation. So I declined and took it into my own hands.
But if I had the choice, I would be sober IF I could fix my anxiety and, without sounding like a drug addict. My personality, my medication (an SSRI) has helped my social anxiety a lot and drugs. Have opened my mind to a huge degree, but I don't consider myself an addict. I just have to be careful, I think being straight is great IF it's meant for you. Once drugs are the only thing in your life, then maybe it's time to go straight. But some people are different, I would never think of going near alcohol again. Where some recovering alcoholics find they can have the occasional drink without relapsing and I know once I drink. I won't stop until it killed me.
So I think clean and sober are two different terms, clean if when your free of all drugs. Sober means your do use drugs, maybe a bit more than you should. Maybe self medicating, maybe not. It's a fine line between using to help yourself come to terms with your self etc, and just wanting to escape from reality.
 
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