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MDMA abuse/ Long term comedown - the Cognitive aspect

pmz said:
yeah its weird. I feel like my sleep has been getting worse. By that I mean, I cant stay asleep. Ill go to sleep ok, but Ill keep waking up continually throughout the night and have a hard time getting back to sleep. Ill be honest, I havent been working out as much. Could be a reason, but yeah. Im not getting the sleep I should. I also feel like my reading comprehension has gone out the window since this all happened. Im feel like Im having a hard time picking up on the shit I read and misread a lot that I look at. Im not sure if thats because of the insomnia, but its the scariest part of what Im dealing with. I really hope I didnt fuck my brain up seriously.
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Hi pmz. I'm sorry to hear that you are having a difficult time with sleeping patterns and the overall long term comedown experience.

IMO it may be worth trying out melatonin, which is a pretty safe sleeping med/ hormone which you should be able to get at any supplement store. It doesn't work well for some, but for others like me, it did wonders during the first few weeks of my comedown and I believe facilitated the early part of my recovery really well. It is incredibly safe and is fine to use for extended periods, although some people believe you should not exceed 2-3 months of usage to decrease chances of messing with natural production of melatonin. I have scaled down my use now that my sleeping patterns have improved somewhat.

My reading comprehension is also pretty screwed at the moment, but it has gotten A LOT better over the past 5 months. At the beginning, I struggled with very basic texts and was able to retain no more than 5% of what I read I would estimate. I have forced myself to do a bit of reading lately have managed to get through a couple of novels, understanding most of of the text. It does get better. My ability to retain the information I have read is still incredibly bad though. When I pick up where i left off the previous night, I'll often have to reread the last 10 pages to be fully aware of what's going on in the story.

Try to force yourself to do some reading, however unappealing the idea may sound. IMO, although I'm sure there is some neurophysiological basis for these cognitive problems, I believe they are also due, in part, to the brain being understimulated. It is incredibly difficult for me to do anything productive at the moment and the thought of reading a text makes me sick to my stomach. I'm pretty sure my inability to comprehend and retain what I am reading is partially due to the fact that I'm simply not exercising my brain enough.

In addition to doing some reading, I sometimes write notes about what I'm reading as a sort of mental exercise. I also have a vocabulary book, which I use to note down definitions of useful words, relatively common words that I don't know and words that I definitely used to know that have faded from my memory since the comedown. Thinking about taking on new challenges such as drawing and playing the guitar to challenge my brain in new ways and combat the lack of stimulation it has received of late. I think these mental exercises will enable you to speed up cognitive recovery and, in the case that you did do something to your brain, enable you to use what's left of your mental faculties to their full potential.

Even if some sort of damage has been done, chances are you will make a full recovery/ close to a full recovery if you give it enough time and live as healthily as you can manage. Also, avoid the temptation to obsessively compare old you to new you as hard as that may be - make the most of what you have and view every milestone in your recovery as a bonus. Optimism is important for recovery but so is acceptance. An inability to accept the nature of the situation will lead to a lot of additional stress.

Let me know how you get on pmz!
 
^^ Nice advice by the way dpd.

I also feel like my reading comprehension has gone out the window since this all happened. Im feel like Im having a hard time picking up on the shit I read and misread a lot that I look at. Im not sure if thats because of the insomnia, but its the scariest part of what Im dealing with. I really hope I didnt fuck my brain up seriously.
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When I had my first comedown I lost interest in all my hobbies, had appathy, no concentration etc. once I got over the hurdle of anxiety and I could sleep again then pretty much all my functionality came back not 100% but certainly enough for it to be unnoticable and I was able to feel normal again.

You havent fucked up your brain seriousley. Your writing is comprehensive and when we chatted on skype everything you said made full sense to me.

I would be sure 90% of your problems are anxiety fueled. Thats really the thing to focus on and tackle. getting out more, facing upto fears and really trying to fight your own desires to sit around and do nothing.

I think the worst thing about anxiety more than any other human problem I can think of you kind of have to fight yourself to get better. If you follow what your mind wants to do it seems the mind under the influence of anxiety wants to sit around and remain sick its very weird. However, this is just the way it is and you have to fight it.

Good point from dpd about the melatonin. I have read that you have to really experiment with the dose to get the balance of sleep right. Do a bit of googling about melatonin dose before experimenting with it.
 
dpd_mnk92 said:
Hi pmz. I'm sorry to hear that you are having a difficult time with sleeping patterns and the overall long term comedown experience.

IMO it may be worth trying out melatonin, which is a pretty safe sleeping med/ hormone which you should be able to get at any supplement store. It doesn't work well for some, but for others like me, it did wonders during the first few weeks of my comedown and I believe facilitated the early part of my recovery really well. It is incredibly safe and is fine to use for extended periods, although some people believe you should not exceed 2-3 months of usage to decrease chances of messing with natural production of melatonin. I have scaled down my use now that my sleeping patterns have improved somewhat.

My reading comprehension is also pretty screwed at the moment, but it has gotten A LOT better over the past 5 months. At the beginning, I struggled with very basic texts and was able to retain no more than 5% of what I read I would estimate. I have forced myself to do a bit of reading lately have managed to get through a couple of novels, understanding most of of the text. It does get better. My ability to retain the information I have read is still incredibly bad though. When I pick up where i left off the previous night, I'll often have to reread the last 10 pages to be fully aware of what's going on in the story.

Try to force yourself to do some reading, however unappealing the idea may sound. IMO, although I'm sure there is some neurophysiological basis for these cognitive problems, I believe they are also due, in part, to the brain being understimulated. It is incredibly difficult for me to do anything productive at the moment and the thought of reading a text makes me sick to my stomach. I'm pretty sure my inability to comprehend and retain what I am reading is partially due to the fact that I'm simply not exercising my brain enough.

In addition to doing some reading, I sometimes write notes about what I'm reading as a sort of mental exercise. I also have a vocabulary book, which I use to note down definitions of useful words, relatively common words that I don't know and words that I definitely used to know that have faded from my memory since the comedown. Thinking about taking on new challenges such as drawing and playing the guitar to challenge my brain in new ways and combat the lack of stimulation it has received of late. I think these mental exercises will enable you to speed up cognitive recovery and, in the case that you did do something to your brain, enable you to use what's left of your mental faculties to their full potential.

Even if some sort of damage has been done, chances are you will make a full recovery/ close to a full recovery if you give it enough time and live as healthily as you can manage. Also, avoid the temptation to obsessively compare old you to new you as hard as that may be - make the most of what you have and view every milestone in your recovery as a bonus. Optimism is important for recovery but so is acceptance. An inability to accept the nature of the situation will lead to a lot of additional stress.

Let me know how you get on pmz!
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Thanks man, thats pretty inspiring. I need to do all of the following. My biggest complication is the fact that I do a lot of comparing from the old me to the new me. I used to work as an engineer and the entire experience has crippled me. Ive always viewed my self as quite intelligent and quick. Now I feel so dumbed down. I had to take a leave of absence from work to deal with my issues. The fear of never being able to get back to work or work the same way absolutely scares the ever living crap out of me. Its been 3 months and I still feel that not much of the cognitive aspect has gotten substantially better. I do want to say it has gotten better, but not to the level I would like it to be. Im currently in fear of having no clue what to do with my life and that is whats fueling my anxiety every day. Its hard to accept that im dealing with when I dont have a job and relied on my intellect to keep me employed.

I can deal with the depression, apathy, DP and insomnia, but the fact I cant go back work at the moment is terrible. Money is gonna get tight. Thank god I still live with my parents and they are being supportive at the moment, but shit is still too surreal. I hope the brain is as plastic as they say it is and we are able to recover, but from the studies ive read and lack of stories of successful full recovery make me very pessimistic when im usually an optimistic person.

My anxiety level has absolutely decreased, but I think that is due to the fact of just better coming to terms with the situation and stopped fighting it as much. I only with the insomnia will go away as well. I feel once I can sleep better, I can recover better and by brain fog will lift. But that just isnt happening.

In due time I guess. Maybe its time to reinvent my self to do something different in my life. Maybe the engineering job wasnt for me. I mean I wasnt always the happiest doing it and the stress was not something I wanted to have for much longer. I just might need to look at this as a shake in my life that I needed to set me on a different path. Where Ill end up I have no idea.

One thing I do know. What ever happens, I have to make this entire experience into a positive outcome.

I guess If we can learn from the things we have lost, in the end we will gain more than what we had to start with.
 
Ok, I gotta as one question that I have been dreading to ask. My shit doing seem to be working right...... if ya know what I mean. Just doesnt want to life up to its full potential. Please tell me Im not the only one who is experiencing this. and this better be temporary!
 
xxxyakinikuxxx said:
I've noticed a few different cognitive issues since starting this comedown. (On a side note, I'm starting to wonder if 'comedown' is even the right word for this) The first thing I noticed, after the crippling anxiety and depression began to abate, was that I couldn't really picture things clearly in my mind's eye. Like if someone said picture someone peeling a banana I literally couldn't do it.

My spelling has also suffered immensely from this. Ironically, the more I try to focus on doing something the more confusing it becomes. If I just write on autopilot I will spell most words correctly and be able to form grammatically correct sentences but if I actually think about how to spell a word I often become confused.

Another thing I have noticed is that it seems like all my thoughts, emotions, and memories have become watered down and distant. For example things I did yesterday seem as if they were done weeks or months ago. I still am able to remember many things but it's as if I have to retrieve everything through a dense fog and when I finally do its not a clear picture but more like a rough outline. It's really frustrating because I used to have such a visceral response to the people, places, and things around me.
Basically I feel like I'm 70 years old and I just turned 30.
I really hope the clarity of life returns little by little because it blows feeling like I can't learn new things/remember the old.
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What you wrote is actually a very good description of the cognitive aspect of depersonalization disorder... Interestingly it seem to distort the memory of place/time/intensity (and short time memory of course), but not the memory of facts... At least in my case...

I bet a majority here suffer from drug induced depersonalization (wich include these cognitive aspect), various drugs can induce this and this is actually quite common (salvia, cannabis, 3mmc have caused episode in my case), and it s not really considered a brain damage by the state of the science... More like a strange state of the brain wich wont turn off...


A bunch of ppl on dpselfhelp website have the exact same cognitive difficulties and never took drugs...
 
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Fantastic thread ... I can relate to much in here (at least that which my damaged sponge of a brain is able to absorb).
I can't contribute much as I have trouble organizing all my thoughts, but i'll try to share a bit of my experience

I had friends in high school & Uni who abused MDMA and suffered badly for it. At the time I learned vicariously through them, and I had a good handle on my drug use for years, never letting it negatively affect me.

My use from age 17-20 was casual & infrequent, except the last time I used MDMA before leaving University I went a bit overboard. Graduated summa cum laude at 21.
Took a break for a few years, then had a summer of fun in 2009 with a bit of legit molly & LSD. All this time my intelligence was quite intact (though perhaps a bit dull); my employment had me working at a high level all these years, successfully.

I recently started a new job; I was amazing at my last one, but burnt out. Hoped for a fresh & sober start.
Instead, my long-time homie & herb connect randomly came across some MDMA, which I gladly bought in bulk.
Using Oxy 9 years ago ruined my self-control for any substance; so with pills & molly at my disposal, I went overboard quick.
Started using every Friday nite. The other week, fresh off some molly the nite before, I went to get a few more pills & walk in to my friend chopping up pills .. naturally I couldn't resist. By then my brain was devoid of sertonin, so I just fried my damaged receptors to another degree.

My negative effects currently:

lack of focus, mental confusion. Very short attention span, I can't follow conversations, TV shows, or read a full page in a book.
I used to love reading. Now I try, but I have to read the same passage multiple times, and even then I am just saying/seeing the words rather than understanding.
I constantly feel as if I am trying to do 2 things at once: like reading a book & watching TV; you see a little of both but fully comprehend neither.
Memory recall is poor. I have a dictionary on my coffee table I have to continuously reference to see if I am using a word correctly (or if it even exists). Writing used to be my one good skill.
Motor skills/speech are affected. I get this with cannabis use too (and alcohol of course), but I have been mostly abstaning from those since resuming MDMA use (since they can't compete). Just feel 'etarded' all day.
My brain just .. aches. I feel random 'drips' or throbs in various parts of my head. Tho I often got this prior to recent MDMA abuse too; my Pysch Dr. never had answer for this.

Conversely, I have not noticed any increase in my anxiety, or changes in my sleep. After I binge on MDMA I tend to sleep away the next day or two with ease.

Compared to many I know I'm on EZ street, but my recent use has really scattered my brain.
It has also affected my motivation; rather than take my responsibilities & new job seriously, I've stopped caring about all the things that used to matter to me. For most of the day, all I can think about is MDMA.
I can read all this incredible information on Harm Reduction / negative retrospectives, but as a diehard addict I'm doomed to repeat past mistakes :\

Best wishes to all those in recovery .. Roll responsibly! :)
 
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SilverFeniks said:
Fantastic thread ... I can relate to much in here (at least that which my damaged sponge of a brain is able to absorb).
I can't contribute much as I have trouble organizing all my thoughts, but i'll try to share a bit of my experience

I had friends in high school & Uni who abused MDMA and suffered badly for it. At the time I learned vicariously through them, and I had a good handle on my drug use for years, never letting it negatively affect me.

My use from age 17-20 was casual & infrequent, except the last time I used MDMA before leaving University I went a bit overboard. Graduated summa cum laude at 21.
Took a break for a few years, then had a summer of fun in 2009 with a bit of legit molly & LSD. All this time my intelligence was quite intact (though perhaps a bit dull); my employment had me working at a high level all these years, successfully.

I recently started a new job; I was amazing at my last one, but burnt out. Hoped for a fresh & sober start.
Instead, my long-time homie & herb connect randomly came across some MDMA, which I gladly bought in bulk.
Using Oxy 9 years ago ruined my self-control for any substance; so with pills & molly at my disposal, I went overboard quick.
Started using every Friday nite. The other week, fresh off some molly the nite before, I went to get a few more pills & walk in to my friend chopping up pills .. naturally I couldn't resist. By then my brain was devoid of sertonin, so I just fried my damaged receptors to another degree.

My negative effects currently:

lack of focus, mental confusion. Very short attention span, I can't follow conversations, TV shows, or read a full page in a book.
I used to love reading. Now I try, but I have to read the same passage multiple times, and even then I am just saying/seeing the words rather than understanding.
I constantly feel as if I am trying to do 2 things at once: like reading a book & watching TV; you see a little of both but fully comprehend neither.
Memory recall is poor. I have a dictionary on my coffee table I have to continuously reference to see if I am using a word correctly (or if it even exists). Writing used to be my one good skill.
Motor skills/speech are affected. I get this with cannabis use too (and alcohol of course), but I have been mostly abstaning from those since resuming MDMA use (since they can't compete). Just feel 'etarded' all day.
My brain just .. aches. I feel random 'drips' or throbs in various parts of my head. Tho I often got this prior to recent MDMA abuse too; my Pysch Dr. never had answer for this.

Conversely, I have not noticed any increase in my anxiety, or changes in my sleep. After I binge on MDMA I tend to sleep away the next day or two with ease.

Compared to many I know I'm on EZ street, but my recent use has really scattered my brain.
It has also affected my motivation; rather than take my responsibilities & new job seriously, I've stopped caring about all the things that used to matter to me. For most of the day, all I can think about is MDMA.
I can read all this incredible information on Harm Reduction / negative retrospectives, but as a diehard addict I'm doomed to repeat past mistakes :\

Best wishes to all those in recovery .. Roll responsibly! :)
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Hi silverfeniks,

Sorry to hear you are also struggling with cognitive problems following MDMA abuse.

I can definitely relate to most of the problems you are facing. It really is difficult to stay motivated/ on top of the situation when your entire perception/ state has slowed down and changed in so many ways.

How long has it been since your last period of MDMA use - are you still rolling despite the deficits you have noticed? If not, do you feel like you have made any progress in terms of recovery on a cognitive front?

I would definitely urge you to scale down on the MDMA use if you haven't already. Your brain may well unscatter itself with enough time if you provide it with the right conditions to do so. It's really about prioritising long term health over short term fun/ escape offered by drugs for a little while at least. I have "slipped up" a few times myself since the come down 5 months ago due to my inherently fiendish nature (bit of weed here and there, drinks every now and then, one night of coke, one night of k) and have felt some residual negative cognitive effects following each of these nights. I couldn't even imagine how bad I would feel after rolling (could definitely imagine going all the way back to square one)! Whilst it isn't really ideal for either of to take any drugs atm, I think if you are a "die hard addict", it would be better to take something which doesn't tax the serotonin system too much and definitely not the drug that got you into the position you are in now!

Good luck with your recovery and hope you keep us posted on any improvements u make

DPD
 
like seriously though. Where are all the stories of "hey im feeling back to my good self again" everyone is going though this at the same time, and any old stories, there is no one who follows up. Like WTF!?
 
like seriously though. Where are all the stories of "hey im feeling back to my good self again" everyone is going though this at the same time, and any old stories, there is no one who follows up. Like WTF!?
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I think when people are initially sick they turn to somewhere like bluelight for support. Once people get used to their condition then they may move away from bluelight alternatively if you get well quite a few people are so happy to feel well again they dont bother coming back just go out there and live life.
 
Bullshit. I want success stories I guess its up to me.
 
Pmz - I have recovered.

One of the reasons I stick around these parts is when I was in your shoes, there were no recovery stories. There were a bunch of "omgz im fukxored" threads and then the people would just bolt. Once you feel better, you don't really want to put yourself back in the traumatic zone so to say. I had to take a decent break from BL once I started feeling better.

Sometimes, even now, reading stuff on here can get my anxiety going a bit.

Take a break man. You have to accept that this is gonna be a drawn out process but also know that you WILL get better. The acceptance is the hardest part. Don't hurt your recovery by perpetuating those existential thoughts. I had them for a while and they really suck. Find something that really makes you happy and work towards that.

I was lucky that I had a very caring girlfriend at the time and she would tell me to fuck off if I started dwelling on my comedown. By just pushing forward with your life and escaping the negative thought loops, you can really put your brain in a great place to heal itself.
 
Dawglaw said:
Pmz - I have recovered.

One of the reasons I stick around these parts is when I was in your shoes, there were no recovery stories. There were a bunch of "omgz im fukxored" threads and then the people would just bolt. Once you feel better, you don't really want to put yourself back in the traumatic zone so to say. I had to take a decent break from BL once I started feeling better.

Sometimes, even now, reading stuff on here can get my anxiety going a bit.

Take a break man. You have to accept that this is gonna be a drawn out process but also know that you WILL get better. The acceptance is the hardest part. Don't hurt your recovery by perpetuating those existential thoughts. I had them for a while and they really suck. Find something that really makes you happy and work towards that.

I was lucky that I had a very caring girlfriend at the time and she would tell me to fuck off if I started dwelling on my comedown. By just pushing forward with your life and escaping the negative thought loops, you can really put your brain in a great place to heal itself.
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your right. Luckily enough, my anxiety has gone down a lot. I almost have no anxiety at all anymore. So im very happy to report signs of improvement. All thats left is this terrible depression/apathy, insomnia and head fog. Its been hard to find fun things through this depression. Ive never in my life experienced something that blocked all my emotions and left me unable to feel any enjoyment(I even felt kinda empty watching Fail Compilation videos on you tube, who doesnt like that?!). The things I liked dont give me fulfillment anymore. I feel like I have to reinvent my self i guess. Could be a good thing in the long run.
 
pmz said:
your right. Luckily enough, my anxiety has gone down a lot. I almost have no anxiety at all anymore. So im very happy to report signs of improvement. All thats left is this terrible depression/apathy, insomnia and head fog. Its been hard to find fun things through this depression. Ive never in my life experienced something that blocked all my emotions and left me unable to feel any enjoyment(I even felt kinda empty watching Fail Compilation videos on you tube, who doesnt like that?!). The things I liked dont give me fulfillment anymore. I feel like I have to reinvent my self i guess. Could be a good thing in the long run.
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Get into gymming or a sport of your choice. Exercise, and the lifestyle that goes with it (e.g. good nutrition), would be an ideal thing to get into now. It was one of the first things I was able to get any sort of enjoyment out of as it relieved a lot of my symptoms on a physiological level, I believe, whilst being a fun hobby to pass the time. Watching strength levels go up every week also allowed me to get a feeling of improvement in at least one area of my life, whilst everything else what at a hopeless standstill. Would highly recommend it.
 
I feel sharper and in a better mood when going to the gym/ exercising regularly. My sleeping patterns improve a hell of a lot too. Good way to kill an entire flock of birds with a single stone.

Pulled a muscle in my back earlier this week and have been forced to sit out for a few days and all of my symptoms have becoming far more prominent as a result.
 
dpd_mnk92 said:
I feel sharper and in a better mood when going to the gym/ exercising regularly. My sleeping patterns improve a hell of a lot too. Good way to kill an entire flock of birds with a single stone.

Pulled a muscle in my back earlier this week and have been forced to sit out for a few days and all of my symptoms have becoming far more prominent as a result.
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Sorry about the back. Gym is one thing I def need to do. I used to work out a lot, that motivation is the hardest thing to do. (go to the gym but do a lot of light stretching instead now for that back.) I think me and you are pretty much in the same boat as far as symptoms. Im feeling the exact same way. What else are you doing with your time? Im not working at the moment.
 
Ah. Fuck coffee. Stupidly I had a cup today to see if that would wake up my mind. I haven't had heart pounding anxiety for a few days. Now a couple hours after the coffee the anxiety DP and depressions seems worse. Learned my lesson.
 
dpd_mnk92 said:
Hi silverfeniks,


How long has it been since your last period of MDMA use - are you still rolling despite the deficits you have noticed? If not, do you feel like you have made any progress in terms of recovery on a cognitive front?

I would definitely urge you to scale down on the MDMA use if you haven't already. Your brain may well unscatter itself with enough time if you provide it with the right conditions to do so. It's really about prioritising long term health over short term fun/ escape offered by drugs for a little while at least. I...
Whilst it isn't really ideal for either of to take any drugs atm, I think if you are a "die hard addict", it would be better to take something which doesn't tax the serotonin system too much and definitely not the drug that got you into the position you are in now!
Click to expand...

I went a whole 2 weeks and decided to see how much my brain had recovered ... yeah, none :|
Instead of a seritonin rush I just get a 'bad comedown' high with mild peripheral (sp?) Effects. And mad anxiety since I decided to skip my meds for a couple days.

Was drinking this past week too, trying to quit tho. I haven't smoked cannabis in about 2 weeks now, no idea the last time I went that long, for once I'm not craving it.
Hopefully one of these days the rock-bottom feeling will take hold of my logical side and overpower 10 years of addiction.

Maybe I'll give a new Rx I got (tricyclic) a run, they usually have positive effects for a month or two, then plateau into worthless pharmaceutical addiction. At least its affordable :\
Tho I'm not sure that further tampering with my fragile brain chemistry is really advisable.

Post-post edit: despite 6 pills in 4 weeks (4.5 now), I'm actually feeling pretty good, aside from my memory & concentration being shattered. If I can avoid the intoxicants there might be brighter days ahead.
 
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So most curious. What is everyone's anxiety fueled by. I find it hard to believe that anxiety is there for no reason at all. There has to a thought or train of thoughts that trigger the anxiety. For me its the fact that I Dont feel like I can verbalize my thoughts as well and feel like my overall sharpness is dimmed/reading isn't as good. Is everyone else simply anxious for no reason?
 
So most curious. What is everyone's anxiety fueled by.
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Thats quite a complex question. Its a mixture of issues involving serotonin distribution, HPA Axis, Amagdala Response and Cortisol levels. That seems to be how MDMA causes anxiety. The exact details of what is doing what is very subjective, ultra complex and differs slightly from person to person.

Once you have anxiety its a horrible loop as you need to reprogram the brain into a different state and that is easier said than done as I am sure you are experiencing.
 
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