(Opioid) using oxy on suboxone

[Helladumb]

I am currently on 2-4 mg of suboxone a day

Coming across a bunch of oxy

Will I feel this oxy and is that dose dependent

How ill it effect my suboxone treatment (besides it being a relapse)

Will I have to induct again and chance preceipated withdrawl at any point, or can I keep taking a low dose of suboxone and just hope that the oxy gives me effects over top?

In other words, I wasn't going to stop taking subs through this, just figured that because I'm on a low dose of subs (4mg) that the oxy will break through and I will feel something. Then right back to my daily subs with no hiccups.
Thanks

 

[MsPilly]

I've never had any luck w/ taking any opiates after being on Subs for any period of time. I've waited like 2 days after my last dose of subs and that seemed to work. I wouldn't recommend taking oxys after you've already taken Subs in the same day. Doesn't work for me. And congrats on your oxys haha.

 

[Bill]

Depends how long you've been on maintenance
I would at least wait 24 hours after your last sub dose to do the oxy

And then, yes I would definitely wait till you're feeling sick again to start back on your sub or you might have to deal with pwd's, which are no fun at all

 

[Helladumb]

I've been. On subs for about 1 month and I'm stable at 4mg

The induction thing isn't worth it for me, that was hell. So there's no way to take these WHILE taking subs and then when the oxy is gone I slide right back To stabilised on subs?

If I take subs the whole time I will still need to get sick to get 'back on' subs ?

I guess that would be too easy. I was hoping to keep taking my subs, feel even a little of the oxy, then be done with it and
Continue where I left off..

 

[MsPilly]

Unfortunately subs have a tendency to block other opiates.

 

[Helladumb]

I know they block other opiods, but I also heard for someone on only 2-4 mg you can still get some effects. Since these oxy are free, I thought why the hell not at least try and likely get a bit of a boost.

But not at the expense of having to induct again. I don't want one of those drug vacation where I wait for re sub to ware off, hit oxy for a while, and then get back on subs the right way by waiting until I was sick. I am just wondering if the oxy's (a high dose even) will 'compliment' my suboxone dose without stopping suboxone. Anyone ever done this?

 

[Bill]

You can try but I bet you won't hardly feel anything from the oxy
A month isn't very long but still, I've taken subs for only a few days before and tried to get high the next day and hardly felt shit

Your best bet is to wait a day or so with out the subs and do the oxy and you'll most likely feel close to full effects, but I've also heard being on subs keeps your opiate tolerance high so you might need more than you think you do

Like I said though it all depends, but no I wouldn't advise taking the oxy while still taking sub, it'll just be a big waste, even though they were free or whatever

 

[Rob27shred]

I've had some success getting high on full agonist opies while being on sub maintenence. But you are not gonna get the full blown effects of the oxy. Also IME any other route of admin. other than IV was a waste of opies while on subs. Things have changed a lot also since I last used any FA opies, the OG oxys & opanas were still around & the dope was fire. IME while on sub maintenence you have to almost double your normal dose (I do not condone this in any way, can be very dangerous depending on your tolerance) to feel it, & even then it still didn't have quite the kick it normally would. Also after everytime I used FA opies I would have to increase my sub dose the next day or 2 to avoid WDs. Also I should say my metabolism is very fast & my system is very different from most people. A lot of my friends put themselves into precipatated WDs trying to copy what I was doing. Your better off just staying on the subs & forgetting about getting high. You may get lucky like I did & achieve a decent buzz but there is always a downside to up. I found myself using my subs up before my next doc app & felt way less stable when I was doing this. I got to the point that I felt either stay on the subs & put down the FA opies or do the opposite cause I was not only going through my sub script in around half the time I was spending more on FA opies than when I started subs. Just not worth it, & this is coming from someone who could get high on subs.

 

[MsPilly]

Good advice Bill and Rob. Stay on the subs and forget about getting high. Like we can ever forget an oxy high right? Ahhh. If Helladumb wasn't taking subs this would be a complete different thread! And he jus scored some free oxys?? I bet the thread would be something like "I jus got some free oxys, what's the best ROA?" Haha.

 

[RTrain]

There are a hundred threads about this subject, btw, but I'll throw in my 2 cents because I neer really have on one of these oh too common posts. But my suggestion is take 2 mg the day you get the oxycodone, then wait at least 12 hours so you can feel something if you use your usual dose. You may still need to double your dose, maybe even triple it, I don't know how fast your liver metabolizes the suboxone. And honestly, if you want to get real high on oxy for one day and then go back to subs, I wouldn't worry about PWD. It would take at least 2 full days of heavy oxy use to risk any PWD. Let me tell you I have experience going back and forth from the 2 a lot. I have many times taken 2 mg in the morning, scored after work, and gotten high that evening, like 12 hours later. But I end up getting like a 50-75% high, then in 4-6 hours if a I re dose it around 65-80%. The next morning I am usually back to normal, but still might feel a little blockade effect. But most these times I was using subs for betwen 1-4 days, so it hadn't built up in m system like it has in yours. And I need to re-dose my suboxone often, I usually do like 1-2 mg in the morning, then .5-1 2 more times throughout the day. IT wears off on me quick.

I guess a good rule of thumb I use is if I am using subs and start to feel w/d symptoms, then I will get something out a full agonist. But if you are only feeling a little sick, then its not much better than just using more sub. Of course the idea is to get the sub out of your system to use the funner stuff, so maybe you accept that its a bit of a waste of your goods, but at least your not feeling a bit crappy waiting to be able to get get a good high. (well either that of dose 2-3 times your usual dose, but thats has risks involved you may not want to take)

Also, 4 mg is not a low dose of suboxone IMO, maybe it is in the suprisingly ignorant minds of the suboxone Drs. Trying cold turkeying off that, I think I'd rather CT off a G of H a day.

 

[Serotonin101]

I was able to blast through 2-4mg of bupe with fat shots of heroin. And by fat, I mean sometimes 2x my normal dose (not recommended, I was reckless). I did not have to do Induction over again either unless my binge was too long. Basically take sub in the morning, shoot dope that evening, then take subs 12 hours later. I was fine. Basically when the subs I had already taken wore off, it was replaced with the new subs, so it didn't displace any heroin. No pwd.

 

[Tommyboy]

I guess a good rule of thumb I use is if I am using subs and start to feel w/d symptoms, then I will get something out a full agonist. But if you are only feeling a little sick, then its not much better than just using more sub. Of course the idea is to get the sub out of your system to use the funner stuff, so maybe you accept that its a bit of a waste of your goods, but at least your not feeling a bit crappy waiting to be able to get get a good high. (well either that of dose 2-3 times your usual dose, but thats has risks involved you may not want to take)

Also, 4 mg is not a low dose of suboxone IMO, maybe it is in the suprisingly ignorant minds of the suboxone Drs. Trying cold turkeying off that, I think I'd rather CT off a G of H a day.

I mostly agree with this part of your post. You need to wait until you feel sick from suboxone withdrawal in order to get a proper high from other opioids, and I am not confusing this with having to be sick in order to dose your suboxone after using other opioids in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

I had posted my general guidelines on getting high after taking suboxone in other threads. It went something like if you are taking 2mg or below then you can probably get high later on that day (and with anything below 1mg you can possibly get high on top of it), 4mg will usually block for 24 hours or so, 8mg for close to 48 hours, and anything above 8mg will have you waiting close to 3 days before feeling the full high.

If you are taking these doses for maintenance (daily for a prolonged period of time) then the blockade affect will last even longer than stated. This is due to the suboxone building up in your system over time due to its long half-life which will both extend the duration that it blocks for, and increase your tolerance since buprenorphine is a lot more potent than most people realize, which is why I said that I agree with this part of your post in which you say that 4mg is not a low dose, although doctors will have you believing otherwise.

Everybody is different and there are some people that can get high the same day that they took between 2 and 4 mg, but for me I always had to wait close to 4 days before feeling the full effects of another opioid when I was on suboxone maintenance at doses between 8 and 16mg daily. Waiting 48 hours would be like a tease where I could feel a little high for a few hours, waiting 3 days would have my high at around 80% and if I could bear to deal with the withdrawals for any longer than that then I could get the full high.

The way around that, as you stated, is to take moderate doses of the opioid for a few days so that you don't have to experience withdrawals yet not waste the drugs since it's still going to be at least partially blocked. Then when you reach the 3 or 4 day mark you can get a proper high, but if you are serious about your recovery then you won't want to go through all of that effort to get a few decent highs only to have to go through the induction period again in which you have to wait until you are in withdrawals again before starting up with the suboxone again, during which time you have to worry about precipitated withdrawal.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the more you go back and forth between suboxone and other opioids, the harder it becomes to adjust back to the suboxone. Where you used to find that you would feel fine once you started on the suboxone you will now find that the first day on the suboxone won't be fully comfortable, and the more you do this the more days it will take before you stabilize back on your dose of suboxone.

I rarely do the 'suboxone shuffle' yet I now find that it takes 3 days before I feel the suboxone fully working. I won't really feel sick for the first few days, but I won't feel 100% and will experience some chills and minor aches. It's like I don't feel anything from the suboxone, but just won't continue to feel sicker and sicker. Then by day 3 or 4 I will finally 'feel' the suboxone dose, meaning I will feel some positive effects after taking my dose that day.

 

[RTrain]

^^^Pretty much the same for me. I also have noticed the blockade effect increased the more I went back and forth. Even if I just took say 2mg that day and waited until late that day. It could be because I had switched from Oxycodone to H, and maybe Suboxone blocks H better.

But I definitely agree that it seems the more I "shuffled" back and forth, the less I got from the Suboxone in terms of relief. Honestly it seems very variable for me. The last time I did it, I actually felt fine that day, and I was even a little scared to take it because I wasn't in heavy W/D from the H(just a bit achy, no desire/depressed, eyes and nose were watering, though), but I had to be sociable and such that day so I took a chance and popped my usual 2-3 mg of suboxone. I felt remarkably good that day, thankfully. There was still the inability to eat that I always get on suboxone, I practically live on coffee and easy to eat things like fruit, yogurt, granola bars, etc. when I am using suboxone for 2-3 days after a long period of my DOC use. But then there was the time I switched over before that, the 2nd to last tme I did it (inote: period of H use prior to switching over to subs was appx the same length of time, so that wasn't a factor). I felt miserable that day. I did like 3-4 hours of yardwork and felt like I ran a marathon. That time I only had plans to use it to hold me over for that day (I had last used 5pm the day before and took the sub around 6am, I usually am good with 12 hours between), then I was acquiring H later on. Maybe it was somewhat mental because I knew it was holding me over, but I was really hurting that day. And of course I was told 1 hour to wait by my guy and it ended up being 3. On top of that, I ended up only waiting about 10 hours from taking 2 mg subs to use the stuff once I got it, and there was a pronounced blockade effect. I still felt like crap. I almost wonder if maybe I had a bug on top of things, because it was odd. It made me question how important he idea of feeling sick was in regards to the subs blockade strength,