Lobelia tupa

[allthegoodjwh's]

I have read from numerous websites about lobelia topa having psychadellic effects
which at first I chalked up to Basic anticholingeric activity

But could not find any information on in depth pharmacology

Are there actual psychadellic effects
or Is it just anticholongeric delerium

Ive found that large wellbutrin doseages produce a very weak but noticable headspace
Simmilar to an anticholingeric one but without the confusión delerium anxiety and weird sensations I got

I wonder if there Is a hallucinogenic receptor thats nicontinic

I read somewhere else that 5ht-2a agonisim causes indirect a7a nicontinic repecotor antagonisims and that it Is partially responsable for its effects

I theorize that since it said it has mixed agonist antagonist actions at nicontinic receptors that it could be an a7a antagonist

And that wellbutrin produces a very weak versión of the effect (siezure threshold being too low to be able to get anywhere near high enough doses

Pcp Is an a7a antagonist
And so Is dxm

I belive that deleriant effects of anticholingerics are from mucineric antagonisism

eg Pcp may be a dissociative but it Is not a deleriant or it would be as unpopular as benadryl

In lower rec doses benadryl produced effects equal to synthetic marijuana abliet with more euphoria (belive it or not)
But in higher doses I would lose my shit

Im wiling to bet that either benadryl Is a stronger nicontinic antagonisit than musacaric
And or
mucinaric deleriant receptora take a higher dose than nicontinic hallucinogenic receptors
thus proving this theory or at the very least giving it some more supportv
i Belive its m3 receptor I had the source but lost it it acts bu increasing dopamine in one of the da schizofrenia pathways

I will try to find the 5ht2a source

*I did* ITs not a published Medical statement
but I beleive it as it supports my theory
I as hoping someone could either prove or disprove the 5ht2a thing

 

[sekio]

TUPA (Lobelia tupa), a tall, variable plant of the high Andes, is also called tabaco del diablo ("devil's tobacco"). In Chile, the Mapuche Indians smoke the dried leaves of this beautiful red-flowered plant for their narcotic effects. Whether they are truly hallucinogenic has not yet been established. They contain the alkaloid lobeline and several derivatives of it. The same alkaloid occurs in some North American species of Lobelia, especially L. inflata, known locally as Indian tobacco. It has been used medicinally and as a smoking deterrent. There are 300 species of Lobelia, mostly tropical and subtropical, and they belong to the bluebell family, Campanuloceae. Some are highly prized as garden ornamentals.

I read somewhere else that 5ht-2a agonisim causes indirect a7a nicontinic repecotor antagonisims and that it Is partially responsable for its effects

I'd like to see that paper.

Im wiling to bet that either benadryl Is a stronger nicontinic antagonisit than musacaric
And or
mucinaric deleriant receptora take a higher dose than nicontinic hallucinogenic receptors

Some people get kicks out of drugs like atropine, which is an antimuscarinic - and I think diphenhydramine has a higher affinity for the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. Most antinicotinic drugs are paralytics. DPH is also a serotonin reputake inhibitor, so there's that as well.

 

[xx001]

Certain types of tobacco are hallucinogenic on their own. South American natives use the much more potent nicotina rustica for this. I'm not sure if it is the higher amounts of nicotine or maoi's that is responsible though. Beta-carbolines like the harman in tobacco are mildly hallucinogenic on their own.

 

[allthegoodjwh's]

http://herbs.maxforum.org/2013/01/11/i-think-i-found-the-sparkle-receptor/

This Is the source like I said ITs not a published paper but i was hoping someone could either prove this by citing a paper stating this
Or disprove it I found it veryvinteresting as I has never heard it before nor could i find any information on the subject
there was Also a Forum on shroomery with an article about University students abusing lobelia tupa

 

[sekio]

5-HT2A agonism causes release of BDNF which antagonizes alpha-7 NAChR's and upregulates D3 [not sure if it antagonizes it or not]. 5-HT2A blocks GABA in the prefrontal cortex, speeding up thought. 5-HT2A upregulates D2 and AMPA receptors very strongly.

Also, the universal connection effect is NOT related to D3. The purple energy grid caused by 5-HT2A is not the same purple as D3. It is a slightly more pink-purple color, and is caused by AMPA.

Oh, please. This is almost comical. Going from "I mixed a bunch of wacky supplements & feel good" to "obviously there's this 3-link pathway of indirect changes that activates receptors X Y and Z, causing purple energy grids" is a cosmic leap, and with no evidence around at all aside from hearsay it's essentially good only as an anecdote.

 

[allthegoodjwh's]

i think i may have jumped the gun with that site source as it did seem pretty off but it was the only inital finding i could unearth about nach recptor's and hallucinations
that could make a clear link to a specific subtype
im convinced that a subtype exists that is the mechanisim for hallucinogenic effects produced by various agonists and antagonists at nach receptor
subtypes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytisine
"Plants containing cytisine, including the common broom and mescalbean, have also been used recreationally. Positive effects are reported to include a mild intoxication and heightened awareness of color. "

that sounds like mild psychadellic effects to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mescalbean
"All parts of the mescalbeans are very poisonous, containing the alkaloid cytisine (not mescaline, as suggested by the name). The seeds or other parts of the plant have been reported to have been used as a hallucinogen by some Native American people, but this is uncertain, due to confusion over names."

another possible hallucinogenic plant as cytisine is know to induce said symptoms above
ableit it is very toxic
and it would make a impossible rec drug
but i belive it agonizes the subtype that could have psychadellic/hallucinogenic potential

the only other thing i could find is a secret subtype scarcely mentioned in literature

found this drug
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RJR-2429

which mentioned this unheard of subtype
α1βγδ s
never heard of it and was hoping someone has

i really kinda hit a roadblock
other than what i have above
and the fact lobellia topa has abuse accounts and doccumented hallucinogenic effects i really cant get any closer to identifying a hallucinogenic nach receptor subtype even though i really belive there is one due to the drugs that exibit hallucinogenic effects

 

[King Kong]

I have read from numerous websites about lobelia topa having psychadellic effects

I just made some attempts with lobelia, but I never experienced something close to a "psychedelic effect"! Also, most of reports I have read go in the same way... where did you read that lobelia is psychedelic/hallucinogenic?

Certain types of tobacco are hallucinogenic on their own.

Have you a source for that?
Tobacco is mainly used in shamanic rituals... from the reports I have read (on 2 french boards), tobacco isn't an hallucinogenic like mescaline or others... Sniffing high dose of potent tobacco is a very physical and cathartic experience (a bit like the kambo frog).

So I have the impression that, in this thread, you are making theory based on a oversimplification. My two cents...

 

[emkee_reinvented]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytisine
"Plants containing cytisine, including the common broom and mescalbean, have also been used recreationally. Positive effects are reported to include a mild intoxication and heightened awareness of color. "

that sounds like mild psychadellic effects to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mescalbean
"All parts of the mescalbeans are very poisonous, containing the alkaloid cytisine (not mescaline, as suggested by the name). The seeds or other parts of the plant have been reported to have been used as a hallucinogen by some Native American people, but this is uncertain, due to confusion over names."

another possible hallucinogenic plant as cytisine is know to induce said symptoms above
ableit it is very toxic
and it would make a impossible rec drug
but i belive it agonizes the subtype that could have psychadellic/hallucinogenic potential

Tabex is a anti smoking aid made from Laburnum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laburnum containing cytisine, at the dosages used for smoking cessation there are some definite psychoactive effects noticeable by me. But these effects were mild like heightened awareness of being and some visual effects, best noticed the first days.

But at the dosages used for smoking cessation most deff not psychedelic by a long shot, and toxic at higher dosages(not as bad as nicotin but close) so don't try to get high of this stuff. A very usefull stop smoking aid.

 

[allthegoodjwh's]

Well what I was trying to do Is figure out the mechanisim for these effects if there Is a single acetylcholine receptor responsible it would be a site for novel psychadellics selective
to it without causing the dangerous toXic effects the other receptors produce

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Not as bad as nicotine? actually, cytisine is quite significantly more toxic in the case of acute toxic exposure than nicotine. IIRC a lethal dosage is somewhere in the region of 20mg, that figure is from reading some time ago, so apologies for not posting the source, I cannot remember where.

Nicotine..a lethal dose is commonly cited as around 50mg. That would make cytisine more than twice as toxic, by weight.