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Alcohol Vs. Hard Drugs

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Alcohol IMO is a harder drug than it's made out to be, but I don't think it's that much harder than most drugs. it's euphoria is definitely not that of what you would expect from a "soft" drug, and I feel like it's on par, more or less, with the harm/danger level of amphetamine (not methamphetamine, just regs amphetamine), and the only illegal drugs that I consider to be safer than alcohol and amphetamine are: cannabis, psychedelics, and milder opioids (codeine, hydrocodone). All of those drugs can be consumed legally in some way (Medical Cannabis, religious peyote/ayahuasca use, and of course, painkillers, respectively) in the US.

Any drug can cause one to become intoxicated enough to act in the manner you described in your post, but since alcohol is legal, and widely and mistakenly assumed to be safe, some people take much, MUCH more than they should, which is why you see less people who have taken, say, cocaine (nasally) or amphetamine (not meth) acting as crazy as those drunk St Patty's Day people. Not only that, but people on those drugs typically don't go out in public while on them, at least not nearly as much as alcohol. We even have certain days (St Pattys Day, New Years, and obviously many more) where people are almost expected to drink themselves into that kind of state, yet there are no occasions where cocaine or ketamine use is encouraged and socially acceptable, especially in excess.

Still, I wouldnt have picked alcohol if I was the one in charge of picking 1 drug to be legal.

Well, IMHO, what you had just stated is just totally bogus. Alcohol's euphoria is only very slight and mild in comparison to the super intense euphoria that results from those hardcore drugs such as crystal methamphetamines, as well as heroin, crack, and cocaine. Those hardcore drugs release somebody's dopamine levels to super high levels that are thousands of times the normal level of what somebody's dopamine levels are supposed to be like. Wheras alcohol does create some slight euphoric and sedative and relaxed effects in small doses, that's some very minuscule euphoria in comparison to that super intense high that results from using those hardcore drugs.
 
Well, IMHO, what you had just stated is just totally bogus. Alcohol's euphoria is only very slight and mild in comparison to the super intense euphoria that results from those hardcore drugs such as crystal methamphetamines, as well as heroin, crack, and cocaine. Those hardcore drugs release somebody's dopamine levels to super high levels that are thousands of times the normal level of what somebody's dopamine levels are supposed to be like. Wheras alcohol does create some slight euphoric and sedative and relaxed effects in small doses, that's some very minuscule euphoria in comparison to that super intense high that results from using those hardcore drugs.

I wasn't talking about smaller doses, I'm talking about when you get DRUNK. Alcohol is pretty damn euphoric in high doses, regardless of your argument. Maybe you haven't experienced that kind of euphoria, but I sure as hell have. Obviously, alcohol doesn't get you as high as crystal meth, but I never claimed that once in my post.
 
i never understand this position. Alcohol should not be schedule 1, look back to the prohibition of Alcohol to see why. Heroin, methamphetamine (not even schedule 1 anyway lol) and coke/crack (cocaine has medicinal uses as well) should be legalized is the point you should make. The very argument to legalize cannabis is the same argument to keep alcohol legalized, prohibition causes more harm than it does good. If prohibition didn't stop people from drinking alcohol, nothing will, which is the point of drug legalization. It's also stupid that heroin is schedule 1 yet fentanyl has medicinal uses and is in fact used all the time in medicine.

Elven warriorr needs to present some hard facts about how many people try heroin/coke/crack/methamphetamine and become addicted/not addicted and not facts about alcohol we already know. Otherwise, Elven warriorr is a simple troll at best.

i completely agree with this. i was an alcoholic for about 7 years, at the end i drank about a quart of vodka a day. in comparison, i've been fucking around with cocaine/strong opioids for 10 and 9 years respectively and never got hooked. not only is alcohol a pretty poor recreational drug, it also completely fucks up your body and the withdrawal from it is pure hell.
and to say that alcohol is less addictive than say, smack, is pure bullshit. it's all down to personal taste and temperament. loads of people drink without getting hooked, but i also know loads of people who can do the same with so-called hard drugs - me included. it's all down to what's socially acceptable, alcohol is, hard drugs aren't and this is a big factor for a lot of people. also, when you say you're an alcoholic it has less of a stigma attached to it than being a junkie, although alcohol dependence is absolutely fucking horrible.
 
I wasn't talking about smaller doses, I'm talking about when you get DRUNK. Alcohol is pretty damn euphoric in high doses, regardless of your argument. Maybe you haven't experienced that kind of euphoria, but I sure as hell have. Obviously, alcohol doesn't get you as high as crystal meth, but I never claimed that once in my post.

^ it varies man

I can't drink alcohol at all; if I were to do that, I'd be severely depressed and would probably feel suicidal if I got intoxicated enough.

A lot of people like myself on buprenorphine note that ethanol lost any euphoric value once on buprenorphine. I don't know why this is, all I know is I won't bother with ethanol for fear that I'll feel depressed on it.

I tried drinking more than 1 drink. What happens is quite literally it will block the euphoria I feel from other drugs such as buprenorphine/cannabis, and then also make me feel kind of mentally slowed down and depressed.

Alcohol DID used to make me feel amazing, and I would drink a bunch of gin in a night, etc. - those days are long behind me.
 
^ my depression was significantly aggravated by my alcohol abuse. since i stopped drinking, which is about 6 months now give or take, my mental health is starting to improve ever so slowly.
 
Well, so getting drunk gives somebody a very strong and intense euphoric "high" feeling? Here's some questions for you. Which mind altering substances out of these two substances has a much stronger euphoric feeling-drinking alcoholic beverages, or getting stoned from smoking some cannabis? Also, which one of those two substances alters your state of consciousness and perception more?

Also, how exactly does alcohol's intense euphoria make it some sort of harder drug?

again, you're not really arguing with anything that I actually said. I never said that alcohol was a "hard" drug nor a "soft" one. IME cannabis alters my perception more when I am nontolerant than alcohol, but alcohol has always felt more euphoric to me and many others. nowadays, alcohol alters my consciousness 10x as much as cannabis, which I smoke perpetually.

but just for the sake of argument, I'd say that the degree of euphoria doesn't really determine whether a drug should be considered "hard", but rather the degree of mental clarity and functionality that one can typically maintain while on the drug, as well as the physical/mental harm it can cause a user in moderately high doses.
 
almost every time i drink i do something that could get me into various types of trouble. can't say that about any other drug, including other gaba drugs (benzos, barbiturates, ghb etc.) HIGH doses of benzos i'm the same but i typically stick to a couple mg of xanax or kpins.
 
"Now compare that to crack or cocaine, which has a very high addiction rate of somewhere in between 70-75%"

Says who? Who says 75 percent of people who try cocaine get addicted? Prove it.
The rate of people who get hooked on booze is not lower than the rate of people who get hooked on blow. In fact I do not find cocaine addictive, at all. My friends are all take or leave it too. Moderate cocaine use has always been the largest percent of users, addicts only make up a small percent of cocaine users. Alcohol is more addictive than cocaine my friend.



"Almost everybody can drink alcohol on some special occasions and never become alcoholics."


No thats not true either, there are people who born alcoholic and should never once touch the stuff.



"Almost nobody can use harder drugs without becoming an addict, and most people become addicts to those substances, but most people can drink alcohol on some special occasions without ever becoming addicts."

Nonsense, complete nonsense.



""The vast majority of alcohol users do not become addicts, which cannot be stated about the users of heroin, cocaine, crack, or crystal methamphetamines."

Back that statement up with real stats, not stuff you make up. The vast majority of the tried it once of any substance do not become addicts. Nothing hooks the majority of people who try it once.



"While some drugs such as PCP, crack, or cocaine, or crystal methamphetamines, and yes, alcohol, do cause some violent behavior in humans"

Please prove a drug causes violent behaviour. Drugs don't make you do anything, and i can quickly find the study that shows double blind with zero alcohol beer caused increased aggression. No substance causes you to lose your free will and start hitting, violence is a choice. Substances are an excuse. Remember this: violence is never a loss of control, its an attempt to gain control over others. This is true in domestics, gang fights, war, its always true. I refuse to enable violent behaviour by allowing you to say the booze did it. You did it and justified it with a lame excuse.


"Heroin is much more dangerous than alcohol, because while both drugs can cause some fatal overdoses (unlike pot), the risk of a heroin overdose is far more higher and likely than the risk of an alcohol overdose."


Well rip off all the labels that tell you what proof it is. Heroin users don't get those labels, thats why they OD. If no one knew the potency of the stuff they were drinking there would be lots more "OD's"
 
^ alcohol is cheap mostly because of legality. If everyone could legally grow poppy and get acetic anhydride, dope would be cheap, and if needles were legal for everyone, that argument is void- dirty needles, etc.Sort of circular reasoning. Also, many many many more people try alcohol because its legal, if you try heroin you are a much rarer group, and obviously already more likely to have drug issues/control problems. As for having a few drinks and not being intoxicated, the average person could take a few little puffs off the heroin foil and not really be intoxicated.

All your reasoning is circular. You can't have a bad trip off alcohol? You've clearly never had to deal with some girl bawling all night cuz she got drunk and someone looked at her wrong, or she lost her phone. Shit gets ugly fast. I've never heard of a bad heroin trip.

When I was in rehab, all the people with the most problems, phsyical and mental, were alcoholics. Life long junkie has nasty withdrawals, but with common sense, that's it. Life long alcoholic has dead liver, is basically insane without alcohol, can easily die if not closely monitored

Shit was deemed "bad" by society for idiotic reasons, and a lot of the time because a particular drug was threatening big company's profits. Alcohol was illegal in the USA for a while too. I have been alcoholic and heroin addicted at separate points in my life, and boy let me tell you, the alcoholic phase was so, so much worse for many reasons, lots listed above.

Tl;dr, the only real reasons heroin addict lifestyle could be construed as more dangerous is because its illegal, therefore things like clean needles are made difficult to find. Alcohol as a drug is worse for a myriad of reasons, physically, and mentally.

Almost identical, word for word what I was thinking as I was reading, no shit!
 
Well Psychedelic Jay, I actually do know some people that drink alcohol in moderation on a regular basis, yes, they drink alcohol just about almost every single day, but they do not seem like alcoholics to me, at all. Here's why. They don't depend on their drinking. Despite their long term (ie, but it's moderate) consumption of alcohol for many years already, they haven't developed any physical addictions to alcohol already, for some reason, but I really don't know why. When they stop their drinking habits, they don't experience any withdrawal symptoms at all.

I wonder how old you are and how much experience you have in "real life".

Alcohol is a toxic substance...look it up.

There are far, far more alcoholics than are reported...it is not always as obvious because of the fact that it is LEGAL, so it may not be noted as often.

How many lives are ended, or impacted in a negative way, do you think, because of alcohol?
(Consider all of it...car accidents, DUIs, domestic violence, other violence, motor vehicle fatalities of both drinkers and innocent people including children, financial issues, job loss, lower worker productivity, child abuse, child neglect, lost days of work, cost in medical care, death from alcohol- long term use or short term use, poor school performance, dropping out of school, date rape and other sexual assaults, unintended pregnancies, STDs, cirrohis of liver, hepatitis, fatty liver, fibrosis, fetal alcohol syndrome and we could go on and on.

There is a study that shows that even low alcohol intake has a negative impact on health rather than what people had thought.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-10/bc-ela102109.php

I am not against alcohol but many of your statements are not correct. If these are your opinions, then fine, you are entitled to them but that doesn't make them correct.
 
Which drugs would you want to trade places with alcohol?

Well, this is just some hypothetical. Let's just suppose that you could illegalize alcohol, however, you could also legalize one currently illegal substance on the other hand. Alcohol and some illegal substance would trade places with each other. Which substance would this be? And why this paticular substance?
 

Alcohol is only addictive if you abuse the hell out of it and if you get drunk on some regular basis, unlike those harder drugs such as heroin and crystal methamphetamines, which usually almost always cause instant addiction in some people.


What if a person drinks all the time yet doesn't feel drunk? My sister was unfortunate enough to have this experience. She drank quite a bit and one day her husband came home from work and found her dead. The explanation my mother got from the coroner was acute alcohol poisoning, the indications were her liver was shot at age 33. So yes her drinking was out of hand but she was not obviously drunk which left us stumped. Alcohol does sneaky damage which may not be evident and though a person may not exhibit signs of abuse, it's harmful nonetheless.
 
Damn that would be nuts. Going down to the bar and ordering a shot of heroin...everyone just chilling on the bar stools, nodding out.

Buying a round of 'shot's for your mates takes on a whole new meaning.
 
GBL, but only for responsible people such as myself... In fact seeing as how were in fantasy land, to get a GBL ticket, you would actually need to ask me personally and I would issue a script with allowable dosages and frequencies of dosing to stay safe.
 
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