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The exercise, weightlifting and fitness thread vers. HMPH GRR AGHHH!!

Care to elaborate, or are you just going to be a dick about it?


Or am I simply asking you to just be a dick about elaborating as well? Because if that is the case, don't bother.

It's simply a bunch of opinionated nonsense without a shred of factual basis. The reason dudes look "off" isn't because of the type of exercises they are doing or specific machines they are using. It's going to be because of genetics, diet, possibly supplements, but most likely, not working out proportionately to the growth rates of their specific body parts. Like if they lack upper body thickness they need to be doing a specific exercise (or exercises) to fix that. Or if they lack proper shoulder roundness, they are probably ignoring their rear deltoid - because most people do.

There's any one of dozens of machines which lack pulleys which are perfectly acceptable to use. There are also dozens of perfectly acceptable barbell based upper body exercises. And you don't need to be some kind of rocket scientist to make these things work properly. A hammer strength machine is going to hit your upper back. Sure, if you're a good knowledgeable body builder that machine is going to more optimally hit the muscle groups you are trying to work, but making blanket statements about said machine is absolutely ludicrous.


I'm all about attaining a natural looking physique - I think the huge chest and legs with small legs and a poorly developed core isn't a good look. But that has absolutely nothing to do with pullies vs. barbells or whatever else. You can have an amazing workout with 1 20lb barbell. Hell you can have an amazing physique for years and years with just that single 20 lb barbell - it's 100% about how you're utilizing that barbell, training your muscles to attain a symmetric and proportional body, and honestly just time.
 
It's simply a bunch of opinionated nonsense without a shred of factual basis. The reason dudes look "off" isn't because of the type of exercises they are doing or specific machines they are using. It's going to be because of genetics, diet, possibly supplements, but most likely, not working out proportionately to the growth rates of their specific body parts. Like if they lack upper body thickness they need to be doing a specific exercise (or exercises) to fix that. Or if they lack proper shoulder roundness, they are probably ignoring their rear deltoid - because most people do.

There's any one of dozens of machines which lack pulleys which are perfectly acceptable to use. There are also dozens of perfectly acceptable barbell based upper body exercises. And you don't need to be some kind of rocket scientist to make these things work properly. A hammer strength machine is going to hit your upper back. Sure, if you're a good knowledgeable body builder that machine is going to more optimally hit the muscle groups you are trying to work, but making blanket statements about said machine is absolutely ludicrous.


I'm all about attaining a natural looking physique - I think the huge chest and legs with small legs and a poorly developed core isn't a good look. But that has absolutely nothing to do with pullies vs. barbells or whatever else. You can have an amazing workout with 1 20lb barbell. Hell you can have an amazing physique for years and years with just that single 20 lb barbell - it's 100% about how you're utilizing that barbell, training your muscles to attain a symmetric and proportional body, and honestly just time.

shit-negro-thats-all-you-had-to-say.jpg
 
exercise science is like bluelight, if you believe everything you read you'd think everyone was smart as shit

its all about deciphering the bullshit
 
It's simply a bunch of opinionated nonsense without a shred of factual basis. The reason dudes look "off" isn't because of the type of exercises they are doing or specific machines they are using. It's going to be because of genetics, diet, possibly supplements, but most likely, not working out proportionately to the growth rates of their specific body parts. Like if they lack upper body thickness they need to be doing a specific exercise (or exercises) to fix that. Or if they lack proper shoulder roundness, they are probably ignoring their rear deltoid - because most people do.

There's any one of dozens of machines which lack pulleys which are perfectly acceptable to use. There are also dozens of perfectly acceptable barbell based upper body exercises. And you don't need to be some kind of rocket scientist to make these things work properly. A hammer strength machine is going to hit your upper back. Sure, if you're a good knowledgeable body builder that machine is going to more optimally hit the muscle groups you are trying to work, but making blanket statements about said machine is absolutely ludicrous.


I'm all about attaining a natural looking physique - I think the huge chest and legs with small legs and a poorly developed core isn't a good look. But that has absolutely nothing to do with pullies vs. barbells or whatever else. You can have an amazing workout with 1 20lb barbell. Hell you can have an amazing physique for years and years with just that single 20 lb barbell - it's 100% about how you're utilizing that barbell, training your muscles to attain a symmetric and proportional body, and honestly just time.


Ok, I've decided not to get into a huge argument over this.


But my point was primarily referring to maximum recruitment of stabilizer muscles, for which dumbbells are optimal. This is hardly just some opinionated nonsense I made up out of nowhere. Although I should have phrased my statements regarding barbells a little better, something along the lines of "and even barbells to a small extent." There can be absolutely no doubt that machines fail to recruit these muscle groups. I don't see how that can be up for debate, and I am not arguing that machines will not make you look ripped. I am postulating that people who develop their muscles primarily through use of machines will not look as good as those who develop their muscles through freeweights. And that if recruiting the greatest number of muscle groups will result in a better, more "natural" looking frame, then dumbbells would be more effective than barbells, although perhaps only slightly so (once again, I overstated that in my original post).


I was not referring to individuals who fail to work out major muscle groups like their rear deltoids, legs, and back. Obviously that looks retarded.
 
Personally, im am one of those guys who kinda "looks ripped" but isnt really that strong. I have a very slim skeletal structure, very low bodyfat and am tall. Because of my frame and my low bodyfat Its hard for me to put up heavy weight on the compound exercises ( squat, deadlift and bench) but I look very aesthetic( which is what i going for anyways) and am pretty athletic. Ive learned not to worry about numbers in the gym so much and just work on improving myself as much as I can.
 
^ I am the opposite as you - a short mesomorph. My small range-of-motion allows me to get very strong pound-for-pound on the big lifts. I am especially good with deadlift, being able to pull 2.5x my weight and aiming for 3x naturally. With deads, I train only with heavy rack pulls and then max out with deadlift once a month or so. My tiny hands are the only annoying part, as my grip fails before my muscles on sets of more than 3 reps with heavy pulls. My gym does not allow chalk, and straps hurt more than help.

The only machines I regularly use are leg press, hamstring curl, donkey calf and pec deck. I also use them to work on lockout strength when I am trying to break through plateaus. Like I was stuck on my 5x5 barbell military press, but two sessions on the hammer shoulder press broke me through. My biggest gripe with machines is that aside from the hammer and free motion lines they vary too much between gyms. And I travel a lot.

My problematic areas are my forearms and calves. Do you guys do anything isolation for forearms? I do curls on the free motion bicep machine, both under and over, for mine, but am open to suggestions.

My best secret weapon, aside from rack pulls, is the barbell guillotine press for upper chest. I struggled for years getting that sexy tight line right below my neck, but a few burnout sets of guillotine at the end of chest day has really filled me out.
 
^ I am the opposite as you - a short mesomorph. My small range-of-motion allows me to get very strong pound-for-pound on the big lifts. I am especially good with deadlift, being able to pull 2.5x my weight and aiming for 3x naturally. With deads, I train only with heavy rack pulls and then max out with deadlift once a month or so. My tiny hands are the only annoying part, as my grip fails before my muscles on sets of more than 3 reps with heavy pulls. My gym does not allow chalk, and straps hurt more than help.

The only machines I regularly use are leg press, hamstring curl, donkey calf and pec deck. I also use them to work on lockout strength when I am trying to break through plateaus. Like I was stuck on my 5x5 barbell military press, but two sessions on the hammer shoulder press broke me through. My biggest gripe with machines is that aside from the hammer and free motion lines they vary too much between gyms. And I travel a lot.

My problematic areas are my forearms and calves. Do you guys do anything isolation for forearms? I do curls on the free motion bicep machine, both under and over, for mine, but am open to suggestions.

My best secret weapon, aside from rack pulls, is the barbell guillotine press for upper chest. I struggled for years getting that sexy tight line right below my neck, but a few burnout sets of guillotine at the end of chest day has really filled me out.

Then we're opposites in more way than one. Probably the most developed parts of my body are my traps and upper chest, which is nice because it makes me look pretty beastly in a tank top.

My problem areas are probably my calves, forearms and lower pectoral area. My long arms and legs make it tough to develop my extremities, and my long upper body means I have very long pectoral muscles. They look OK but I dont get that bulging out chest effect.

For my forearms I find reverse forearm curls with a barbell work the best, but again im probably not the person to ask about how to develop forearms.
 
Anyone here use pre workouts? I love them, makes me feel like a million bucks after a good workout. Ive been using 1mr recently but my buddy gave a couple servings of adrenaline yesterday and it was freaking amazing, definitely going to get some of my own after I run out of 1mr.
 
Ok, I've decided not to get into a huge argument over this.


But my point was primarily referring to maximum recruitment of stabilizer muscles, for which dumbbells are optimal. This is hardly just some opinionated nonsense I made up out of nowhere. Although I should have phrased my statements regarding barbells a little better, something along the lines of "and even barbells to a small extent." There can be absolutely no doubt that machines fail to recruit these muscle groups. I don't see how that can be up for debate, and I am not arguing that machines will not make you look ripped. I am postulating that people who develop their muscles primarily through use of machines will not look as good as those who develop their muscles through freeweights. And that if recruiting the greatest number of muscle groups will result in a better, more "natural" looking frame, then dumbbells would be more effective than barbells, although perhaps only slightly so (once again, I overstated that in my original post).


I was not referring to individuals who fail to work out major muscle groups like their rear deltoids, legs, and back. Obviously that looks retarded.

Sure it can be argued. There's no evidence for your claim, otherwise it would be common knowledge and practice across the weight lifting / body building community. And I've never seen any such thing like this.

Consider this - take 2 identical twins. Have them train the exact amount of sets/rep/weight for a year with the same diet, but have one use barbells and such sometimes and the other stick strictly to pully machines and dumbells. I bet you wouldn't be able to visually tell which is which.

Further, this idea that "more stabilizers are used with dumbbells" I'm a fan of sort of - you've got more control over the range of motion and you're going to involve portions of the muscle/hit it from angles you don't hit with a barbell. But how does that same logic carry over to a pully? Pully based machines isolate more. In order of isolation it is clearly going to be dumbell > barbell > isolation machines. And there's no difference between a pully or hinge based machine as far as the muscle is concerned - the range of motion will be identical. The force action might differ slightly but that's not going to involve any more or less stabilizers.

I emphasize the "sort of" though - stabilizer muscles are kind of a bogus term. If you're working chest you're working the pectoralis major. You can do a dumbell press or a barbbell press - either way you're hitting that same muscle. If you're counting on that lift to keep your pectoralis minor or your serratus anterior proportionate, then you're going about this wrong. Which goes back to my thing about the rear delt. Instead of doing dumbbells, just make sure you're hitting all the muscles, like I said before, and you'll be all good. But that flat bench or incline bench or other chest presses (close grip is good) are going to hit your chest in different ways than a dumbbell press or fly, and thus, are also important parts of the regimen too.

In summary, your theory is sort of all over the place and IMHO is shaped by pre-existing biases. In my opinion and 10 years of working out experience it's all about balance. More types of exercises should always be superior to fewer.


As a final thought, it's possible you're confusing correlation with causation. Maybe you've noticed there are dudes in the gym that are bench monkeys or something - the typical low knowledge lifter who just goes in and does things like bench, barbell curl, etc. and maybe never got into reading about the science behind it, doesn't have good form, doesn't have good nutrition, etc. These types are going to have jacked up physiques but it's because of a bunch of other things than simply the fact they're exercising with a barbell.
 
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Anyone here use pre workouts? I love them, makes me feel like a million bucks after a good workout. Ive been using 1mr recently but my buddy gave a couple servings of adrenaline yesterday and it was freaking amazing, definitely going to get some of my own after I run out of 1mr.

The old 1mr was the shit. I don't so much like the new forumula, though. Adrenaline Cuts packs a punch, but I crash hard from it - more than other DMAA-containing pre-workouts. I think jack3d is pretty good, and neurocore (as the non-DMAA choice) is nice too. My buddy swears on Warpath, but I have never tried it. Dark Rage is the worst I have tried - beware! I try and only use pre-workouts on leg day and/or when I want to break a plateau. Tolerance builds rather fast.

Care- Do you do decline bench? I have converted to incline and decline, but no flat. Flat bench hurts my biceps when I go heavy. We will see if I can still do the same weight on flat after a few months just inc/Dec.
 
do you guys buy the shorter arms = easier bench press theory or is my friend just a pussy?
 
The old 1mr was the shit. I don't so much like the new forumula, though. Adrenaline Cuts packs a punch, but I crash hard from it - more than other DMAA-containing pre-workouts. I think jack3d is pretty good, and neurocore (as the non-DMAA choice) is nice too. My buddy swears on Warpath, but I have never tried it. Dark Rage is the worst I have tried - beware! I try and only use pre-workouts on leg day and/or when I want to break a plateau. Tolerance builds rather fast.

Care- Do you do decline bench? I have converted to incline and decline, but no flat. Flat bench hurts my biceps when I go heavy. We will see if I can still do the same weight on flat after a few months just inc/Dec.

I do incline, but unfortunately the gym I go to doesn't have a decline bench (its a small gym that I get to use for free). It has a cable fly machine that kind of works like a decline bench though.

As for pre workout I go on and off. I force myself to stop using them for a month or so when I run out to deal with tolerance. But when I have some I use it every time I go to the gym. I never really get a noticeable crash from any pre-workouts
 
Dang RedLeader 2.5x body weight is impressive.

but back on topic -
I've been working out 10 years now. During that time I transformed my physique completely. I was 6'4" and 210ish pounds back in 2003 before working out for the first time. At my absolute peak training I deadlifted 610 lbs - other good lifts were like 585x3 and 495x12. I was pure beast at that point - 275 lbs with decently low body fat. Since then I've dieted way down - I'm 230-235 these days and now focusing on athleticism - cardio, vertical leap, and doing tons of circuit/superset training. I've completely changed my workout routine to a mix of upper/lower body and cardio each day - much lower weight, much higher reps and sets with a huge emphasis on clean diet.
 
I do incline, but unfortunately the gym I go to doesn't have a decline bench (its a small gym that I get to use for free). It has a cable fly machine that kind of works like a decline bench though.

As for pre workout I go on and off. I force myself to stop using them for a month or so when I run out to deal with tolerance. But when I have some I use it every time I go to the gym. I never really get a noticeable crash from any pre-workouts

How about a bench for decline dumbbells? You could always do pushups with your hands above the ground (like on a step) to target lower chest.

But ya, every gym seems to be lacking one key machine. I wish my current gym had a T-bar setup.

do you guys buy the shorter arms = easier bench press theory or is my friend just a pussy?

Ya, being small is goof for horse racing and powerlifting. Look at some vids of powerlifters arching their backs to decrease range of motion on bench.
 
I love the spread eagle looking machine when a fat chicks on it and shes just peering around the room looking for people looking at her and its just like

uh no thanks

I wish I had one of those belts you can attach weights to I used to use that thing for dips and it was intense
 
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