Guardian story - new drugs

[Mike_Power]

Another factual inaccuracy: "Each gram [of 25i-NBOMe] contains a minimum of 2,000 doses, making it very easy to take too much" - that implies the maximum dose is 500 µg, which is not correct; but he's in the ballpark.

I honestly don't see why he's being vilified.

I deliberately quoted low on the NBOMEs. I know the dose range can run to 1.5mg and have spoken to someone who did 8mg after weeks caning it and they survived.

I honestly don't see why he's being vilified.

thanks for your words.

the reason, simply, is because i'm a journalist, QED a cunt. So it goes.

 

[Cornishman]

OK, in order
I didn't write the headline. Journalists do not do that, sub-editors do that. It's pretty unlikely that you'll see an unequivocally positive framing of any drugs story in the media under current legislative conditions.

I actually wrote a bit about media legislation the other day but deleted it thinking I was stating the obvious.
But yeah, people always seem to forget that the media aren't allowed to portray drugs in a positive light.

What hope do any of us have if we can't have freedom of speech.

 

[Shambles]

wrong, mate. I have a source, but it's off the record and anonymous, but the fact remains: the UK is awash with NBOMEs on blotter.

Then why are none of us regular users seeing any of it? Where is all this vast wash of NBOMe blotter? Somebody started a thread on this very topic just today. So far his is the only experience of finding NBOMe blotter being sold on the street. Am sure there will be more but it doesn't seem to me to be anything like as common as "awash with NBOMes on blotter". Where is it all? Who is buying it? How does it work as NBOMes do not work orally - they need to be administered nasally or sublingually which is not how most people take acid.

That aside, would you say the article had been edited to give it a more traditional media view? Is the impression I got given your own posts here and by the review of your book by Si up there and a brief potter about online about it. Unfortunately such a complex - and bizarrely controversial - topic is always gonna be hard to address properly in a standard newspaper article. I suppose it is also true that I mostly live in a BL bubble and rarely bother with mainstream media drug stories as they are such utter arsewater. As I mentioned, I didn't think the article was shit so much as disappointing. I suspect I am just a tad bit too idealistic about such things. It really should be so much simpler. HR innit.

Oh, and thanks for returning - makes you unique amongst all journalists as far as I can tell so massive bonus points for that alone :D

Pee Ess: Please tell me the extensive use of the term "narcotics" wasn't your mistake. Such a schoolboy error

 

[hx_]

Then why are none of us regular users seeing any of it? Where is all this vast wash of NBOMe blotter? Somebody started a thread on this very topic just today.

There were a fair few sheets of it circulating Bristol the last summer, blank tabs though, no art. Some of it was being sold as acid.

 

[Ismene]

NBOMES/meph deaths
It's not a contradiction, it's accurate reporting of news. The NBOME deaths are taken from Erowid, so take issue with them, not me.

No Mike, if you read those Erowid reports pretty much of them say "it was reported in the media...". Now, remember, we had all this with mephedrone. How many of the "it was reported in the media" cases actually were deaths from Nbome is anybodys guess. But with our experience of Mephedrone you should be taking every single report with extreme suspicion and caution. And I mean EXTREME CAUTION - you should assume it's bullshit untill you have the complete medical history of the person who died, what other drugs he was on, what dose he took etc. The media will take every chance it can to demonise a drug and blame it for a death. That's their bread and butter.

It is ridiculous of you to defend this drug: sure, at measured microgramme doses its 'safe'.

I'm not really defending it. I'm just saying that it's pretty easy NOT to die from it. All you do is take a very small dose the first time and see whether you die or not. If you don't die, try increasing the dose slightly until you enjoy the experience. The idea that Nbome is going to cause armageddon amongst drug users is utterly deranged, as is the suggestion that it's some kind of "killer drug".

But I have not misrepresented anyone

But what is the main thing anyone unexperienced with NBome is going to take away from your article? That it needs urgently banning because it's felling people left, right and center? Surely it's going to cause fear and terror in parents when you described an endless series of deaths? If you needed an alternative viewpoint on Nbome there's plenty of people who could have given you one. I've tried Nbome - it came nowhere near killing me and it came nowhere near giving me a trip either. It's shite and not a patch on LSD. Doesn't sound quite so scary when you put it that way does it.

I'll not quote from the text fastandbulbous sent me after reading my book last week

I'll have to read the book then Mike.

 

[Shambles]

There were a fair few sheets of it circulating Bristol the last summer, blank tabs though, no art. Some of it was being sold as acid.

It's lucky we now have a thread for discussing such abominations then really. A "fair few sheets" circulating in Bristol and the pyramid blotter mentioned by xTalK are still a long way from a flood though. But as ever I am quite happy to amend my opinion if/when I see the evidence for it.

 

[Ismene]

Pretty easy to tell the two apart even if they are putting it on blotters and selling it as acid - just leave it in your mouth for half an hour. You can instantly tell whether it's acid or 25c by the feeling it gives you.

 

[Shambles]

True, but most casual users would be unaware of the differences and as long as they were seeing swirls probably won't care what is causing them. The fact that you need to hold them under your tongue for long enough for NBOMe to even get into your system is a major issue with trying to pass 'em off as acid. Is the only real reason I've been able to come up with as to why we don't see the streets awash with the stuff. At least I certainly don't. I clearly move in the wrong circles.

 

[dan88]

I suspect there is a large amount on nbome, on blotter, but I doubt its being sold as acid. Mainly cuz acid is a pretty niche drug in itself. I've seen plenty of nbome blotter, but its usually been sold as such.

Your right ismene, it is pretty hard to overdose on nbome, if taken by blotter. I personally had a nasty experience with the 'snuff caps' which really left me thinking it wouldn't be hard for somebody to od on these. Indeed I probably wasn't far off myself. Off half a supposed 600ug cap. Evidently the nbome hadn't been mixed properly with the inert powder, but I can only see the rise in this drugs use as a bad thing

 

[knock]

i used to keep acid on my tongue/ in my mouth until the blotter disintegrated cos someone told me that was right, long before BL existed. whether street wisdom (or nonsense, my point is not that it's the right thing to do with acid, but that people taking "acid" might do it) like that is still being circulated I don't know. On the eyeball was the other, didn't appeal


oh, and acid being a niche drug, it's not niche at festivals, is it? that's what i'm worried about this year.

 

[Shambles]

I said most people who take acid don't take it that way, Knock. In a world where street "wisdom" in some places would still have you believe that acid needs to dissolve in your mouth, acid contains strychnine, acid lodges in your spine forever and can cause a flashback at any moment - most likely when you are crossing a busy road, acid makes you want to fly from upper storey windows, acid makes people think they are a glass of orange juice forever, acid changes your DNA and the DNA of any children you spawn, acid is effective absorbed through the skin... In such a world anything is possible. But is not something I've personally seen much of even in my enejumacated pre-intrawebz daze. But have no doubt such erroneous beliefs are still beliefed.

As mentioned, I will change my opinion about the ubiquitousness of NBOMe blotter sold as acid when I see the evidence for it. So far it doesn't tally with any of my experience. Although admittedly I am rather isolated and live in a weird, rural and above all local bubble and a strange intranetz forum full of actually edjumacated druggy folk so my experience may not count for much here.

 

[knock]

I've not seen much of the world...

Oi, stop being sarcy, my limited experience is just as valid as yours! :D

If you're not being sarcy, stop talking crap.

 

[Shambles]

I've seen enough of the world to be able to form an opinion on most things. Probably. But you've seen how much of the world I've had access to this last decade or so so know exactly what I mean :D

 

[Mailmonkey]

i used to keep acid on my tongue/ in my mouth until the blotter disintegrated cos someone told me that was right, long before BL existed. whether street wisdom (or nonsense, my point is not that it's the right thing to do with acid, but that people taking "acid" might do it) like that is still being circulated I don't know. On the eyeball was the other, didn't appeal

same, first time someone gave me a trip he told me to keep it in my mouth as long as possible, suck it don't chew it....

I "heard" of people putting it on their eyeballs, but never witnessed it and assumed it was an urban myth....would it even work?

I've got to admit, to the educated reader, Mike's article comes through with the right tone, but for the uneducated reader I think it would be seen as an anti-drugs....drugs kill m'kay article.

I was very aware when I was reading it that I, and many other BL'ers would not be the main readership, and so the majority would read it in a different way to us.

I'm gonna see if I can think of a mate who doesn't like drugs and get the to read it. See how it comes across to them. Haven't really got any mates who don't like drugs though.

My parents are blinkered and ignorant about drugs, I might see what my dad has to say about it. (The fucking twat voted UKIP in his council elections last week ) But I'll send him a link and ask his opinion.....He's as far from a BLer as it's possible to be, he thinks cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol, and makes a great deal about where his wine is from, how it's been stored in casks, how long has it been bottled.....I try to tell him if cannabis was legal people would be able to choose regions, strains and growers that give them what they are looking for ....just as he does with wine, but if wine was prohibited, he'd be buying home-brew hooch, possibly poisonous from some bloke down the road....

I'm genuinely interested in his opinion, he's always been anti-drugs (except alcohol) and he's never liked the fact that I make no secret of my drug use. He's stopped asking about it now as he knows he gets the truth from me about what I've been doing, and he'd rather not hear it.

Anyway this a bit rambling ket-fuelled post, but the point of getting my dad to read it is to see how it comes across to a UKIP voting financially comfortable pensioner...the point of Mike's article was to start trying to inform people that prohibition causes more harm than good (I think), if my dad even questions his own opinions ONCE, I'd say Mike's article has done some good.

My Dad has read the Daily Telegraph since he was about my age,he's in his late 60's now.


EDIT>>>>>>If anyone has read Mike's book and has a copy I'll swap it for a copy of Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre. Excellent.

 

[knock]

i'll be interested to hear your results, i'd try my mum and dad but it would just freak them out, they're on an even keel right now, best not to rock the boat!


might try and find some other grumpy old cunts to experiment on :D

 

[Mike_Power]

Oh, and thanks for returning - makes you unique amongst all journalists as far as I can tell so massive bonus points for that alone :D

Pee Ess: Please tell me the extensive use of the term "narcotics" wasn't your mistake. Such a schoolboy error

cheers. and yup, sub-editors change words that repeat. i use the word drugs/chemicals/compounds/substances/pills/powders/RCs etc.

 

[Mike_Power]

This was his conclusion but I suppose it looks better coming from Adam Winstock than me on a drug board right?

let me get this straight: i come on here, ask for contributions, am pretty much told to fuck off, and then when i use the words of an expert who uses a national newspaper to talk about the pleasures of drugs, that's somehow wrong?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/18/driver-drug-pleasure-dependence


talk me through that.

 

[knock]

"psychotropic" is, sadly, an underused term.

 

[Mike_Power]

to quote from adam's piece, in the guardian:

The three drugs that came out top share the capacity to broaden one's inner world and scope for emotional and spiritual attachment. LSD and magic mushrooms have no recorded drug-related deaths to their name, are used sparingly by most users, and virtually no one becomes dependent.

In the case of MDMA, there are some drug deaths each year, but some of the risk and harms are associated with uncertain dosing due to variable purity and pills containing other stimulants, multiple drug use and limited implementation of common sense safer-use strategies.

…

The government should not fear drug law reform. The results from this year's survey of the potential impact on drug use by current and non-users clearly shows that reducing drug penalties for small amounts of illegal drugs would, for the overwhelming majority, reduce stigma, improve discussion with families, who are the best placed to help and support individuals, and access help for their use.

Find me anything printed in mainstream media saying that in the last 12 months. You won't find it – and I know because I have been reading every drug stroy closely for 5 years as I reseacrhed my book.

Speaking of the Guardian and myself, there's no newspaper – or journalist – so supportive of the goals of most people here. I stand by my claim: 5-IT, the 25-series, and even 5-MAPB and dozens more RCs that sprang up in the mephedrone backdraft are all totally shit, unknown, toxic drugs that are more dangerous than MDMA, amphetamines, mescaline, cocaine, LSD and mushrooms put together. And the market will grow until contemporary prohibition ends.

I'll bet this as well:25I-NBOME will kill dozens more at festivals in the US and UK this summer, in acute, horrific circumstances.

And I'll hate to say I told you so.

 

[Ismene]

Find me anything printed in mainstream media saying that in the last 12 months. You won't find it – and I know because I have been reading every drug stroy closely for 5 years as I reseacrhed my book.

Go back a little furthur to an article printed in the Guardian about 10 years ago called "Make heroin legal". That set the standard as far as drug writing in mainstream media.

I'll bet this as well:25I-NBOME will kill dozens more at festivals in the US and UK this summer, in acute, horrific circumstances.

First, we don't know it's killed anybody yet -it may have done, but mephedrone was down to have killing 150 people back in 2009, all those turned out to be bollocks so I'm assuming that at least 99.9% of the deaths caused by Nbomes are the same.

I'll take that bet. But I want real evidence, not just "it was reported in the Sun..."