I was addicted to IV Dilaudid for a while and after multiple relapses I took the easy way out: Methadone. I have been on it since December. Started at 20, went up to 40, now at 25. feeling fine, a little sweaty here and there. What I'm wondering is, with drugs like Clonidine and maybe a couple valium when things get tough, is it possible to reduce my dose slow enough so that I don't get sick or overly depressed? Physical withdrawals were never as terrible for me as the mental withdrawals so those are what I'm primarily concerned with. I'm currently on 300 mg of Wellbutrin daily and might try go get on some other sort of anti depressant to help that work a little better. SO. What do you guys think? Is it possible to reduce my dose so slowly that I won't experience overwhelming withdrawal or depression?
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Methadone Detox: Can it be done somewhat painlessly?
- Thread starter mastab423
- Start date
I do not know as much about methadone maintenance and reduction as some other BL'ers, however I can say a few things that might help. Firstly, you have only been on methadone for a few months, your highest dose was 40 mg daily, and you have already dropped to 25 mg daily w/o significant discomfort (from the way it sounds). You should know that some face kicking methadone after being on it for much longer than you have, and though methadone wd's are no walk in the park, don't build it up in your mind that you have this especially terrible feat to face. More, you have managed to drop from your highest maintenance dose of 40 mg daily to 25 mg daily, which is a great accomplishment in reduction; in essence, you have already begun a taper of sorts. So, know that you have already put work into getting to your goal, and as I said, don't build it up to be impossible, because it is not. Even more on your side, you are on 25 mg daily, which is relatively low compared to MANY other maintenance doses. I guess what I am meaning to say is that, all in all, what you are facing could be a hell of a lot worse, but any opioid wd's are hellish and I do not mean to brush it off as not 'hard'. I am just trying to tell you what is 'good' about your situation, with respect to opioid addiction as a whole. Hell, you even managed to kick IV hydromorphone and get on a maintenance program. Give yourself credit for that. Just because you didn't kick opiates cold turkey doesn't mean you "took the easy way out", for I really don't feel that you have.
Now, for more talk of actual reduction in methadone dose to taper and eventually kick it altogether. I am not sure how far back your entire opiate addiction goes (i.e. how long you have been addicted to opiates), but if you managed to substitute, maintain, and begin taper via methadone drug therapy, and are not feeling that bad, I am going to guess that a slow reduction won't be very tough. When you do reduce your daily dose, you will likely feel a bit shitty, but if you do small reductions over time, I think you will manage fairly well. I say this because of what you have written in your post, including the part about dealing with physical wd's comparatively well. As for the psychological elements of wd's, there are a number of comfort drugs which could be employed to help you reduce, and eventually stop, the methadone with more subjective ease. Benzodiazepines can be of help, but I'd worry a bit about benzo's and methadone being taken together even though I know you are quite opioid-tolerant. Methadone is a weird opioid, and it is rather dangerous in terms of risk of overdose when being used more or less as directed, compared to other opioids. Methadone is associated with some risks of cardiac issues, including fatal ones, and has its reputation of being quite sedating physically because it does exert a good deal of CNS depression. Dosing methadone can also be a tricky, and potentially dangerous, thing because of the delayed onset of action, and the effects of chronic dosing versus acute dosing. All of that said, if you feel a small dose of PRN benzodiazepine would be okay, it is not as if it would be absurdly dangerous. The key words there, though, are SMALL DOSE, when it comes to a the benzo of choice. Besides the dangers I have mentioned having concern about with benzo's and methadone, I would only caution one more thing - make sure you have your benzo use well-controlled. Benzo's can be good crutches, but if you use them as such make sure you are using them when you need them, however you define that, but don't get into the habit of popping them constantly to make it easier on the whole, or benzo addiction is a very serious risk. With clonidine, I would be concerned, too, because of its effects on the heart, on blood pressure, on lucidity etc., and I would definitely be cautious about putting clonidine on top of any methadone, regardless of dose. Something about all of that just doesn't sit well with me. Now, when you are finally done with dosing any methadone, and start feeling the true absence of opioids, it is another story with benzo's, clonidine, and all of the comfort drugs for opioid wd's. But, even after the final kick, BE CAUTIOUS about benzo addiction, and even the lingering methadone's interaction with a drug such as clonidine. I would not emphasize all of these dangers if methadone were not such a dangerous opioid in the ways it is.
So, then, I would advise you to come up with a tentative taper plan for the methadone dose, reducing perhaps once every five days, once a week, once every ten days, once every two weeks, or at some such interval. The reason I say come up with a TENTATIVE plan is because of the fact that you might be able to cut the dose more easily, or less easily, than you initially think, and that cutting the dose will likely change as you continue the taper. Don't put yourself through agony, as a slow taper plan is likely best to get off and stay off with the most comfort. When you are completely off, whenever that might be, I'd suggest preparing for a longer period of methadone wd's, for it will be long even if mild due to methadone's nature and very long half-life. The lower your jumping off dose is when you jump off, the milder the wd's will likely be, if you got to that low jumping off dose gradually through a taper, but they will last for a bit of time even acutely. Still, they could, potentially, be relatively mild and aided by comfort drugs when needed. But, take it slow and steady to that point, keeping the end in sight, but also the present and immediate future in sight, too.
The short answer is yes; you can avoid unnecessary discomfort, but cannot avoid discomfort altogether. Like I said, there are others on here who know much more about methadone and kicking it and such, but I hope this has helped some. You have already made great progress, even if you don't feel it. Know your strength, be cautious and knowledgeable, and take it as it comes. Best of luck!
Now, for more talk of actual reduction in methadone dose to taper and eventually kick it altogether. I am not sure how far back your entire opiate addiction goes (i.e. how long you have been addicted to opiates), but if you managed to substitute, maintain, and begin taper via methadone drug therapy, and are not feeling that bad, I am going to guess that a slow reduction won't be very tough. When you do reduce your daily dose, you will likely feel a bit shitty, but if you do small reductions over time, I think you will manage fairly well. I say this because of what you have written in your post, including the part about dealing with physical wd's comparatively well. As for the psychological elements of wd's, there are a number of comfort drugs which could be employed to help you reduce, and eventually stop, the methadone with more subjective ease. Benzodiazepines can be of help, but I'd worry a bit about benzo's and methadone being taken together even though I know you are quite opioid-tolerant. Methadone is a weird opioid, and it is rather dangerous in terms of risk of overdose when being used more or less as directed, compared to other opioids. Methadone is associated with some risks of cardiac issues, including fatal ones, and has its reputation of being quite sedating physically because it does exert a good deal of CNS depression. Dosing methadone can also be a tricky, and potentially dangerous, thing because of the delayed onset of action, and the effects of chronic dosing versus acute dosing. All of that said, if you feel a small dose of PRN benzodiazepine would be okay, it is not as if it would be absurdly dangerous. The key words there, though, are SMALL DOSE, when it comes to a the benzo of choice. Besides the dangers I have mentioned having concern about with benzo's and methadone, I would only caution one more thing - make sure you have your benzo use well-controlled. Benzo's can be good crutches, but if you use them as such make sure you are using them when you need them, however you define that, but don't get into the habit of popping them constantly to make it easier on the whole, or benzo addiction is a very serious risk. With clonidine, I would be concerned, too, because of its effects on the heart, on blood pressure, on lucidity etc., and I would definitely be cautious about putting clonidine on top of any methadone, regardless of dose. Something about all of that just doesn't sit well with me. Now, when you are finally done with dosing any methadone, and start feeling the true absence of opioids, it is another story with benzo's, clonidine, and all of the comfort drugs for opioid wd's. But, even after the final kick, BE CAUTIOUS about benzo addiction, and even the lingering methadone's interaction with a drug such as clonidine. I would not emphasize all of these dangers if methadone were not such a dangerous opioid in the ways it is.
So, then, I would advise you to come up with a tentative taper plan for the methadone dose, reducing perhaps once every five days, once a week, once every ten days, once every two weeks, or at some such interval. The reason I say come up with a TENTATIVE plan is because of the fact that you might be able to cut the dose more easily, or less easily, than you initially think, and that cutting the dose will likely change as you continue the taper. Don't put yourself through agony, as a slow taper plan is likely best to get off and stay off with the most comfort. When you are completely off, whenever that might be, I'd suggest preparing for a longer period of methadone wd's, for it will be long even if mild due to methadone's nature and very long half-life. The lower your jumping off dose is when you jump off, the milder the wd's will likely be, if you got to that low jumping off dose gradually through a taper, but they will last for a bit of time even acutely. Still, they could, potentially, be relatively mild and aided by comfort drugs when needed. But, take it slow and steady to that point, keeping the end in sight, but also the present and immediate future in sight, too.
The short answer is yes; you can avoid unnecessary discomfort, but cannot avoid discomfort altogether. Like I said, there are others on here who know much more about methadone and kicking it and such, but I hope this has helped some. You have already made great progress, even if you don't feel it. Know your strength, be cautious and knowledgeable, and take it as it comes. Best of luck!
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
Not sure what "somewhat" painlessly means. There is no painless methadone withdrawal. Define "somewhat" 
If you have only been on it for a few months, are currently only taking 25mg/day, plan to taper it and have good comfort meds then it really shouldn't be too horrible in relative terms. Of course it's different for everyone, but deciding to get off it now is a very wise move as you will have a much easier time than someone who has been on it for years. But you want to be careful not to get dependent on the drugs you use to help ease your withdrawal. A methadone taper, subsequent withdrawal and PAWS last so long that if you are taking clonidine and Valium that whole time you will end up physically dependent on them. So be careful about that. Clonidine dependence isn't too bad, as far as I understand its WD is mostly elevated blood pressure and some insomnia, which should be alleviated by tapering off the clonidine. Valium dependence on the other hand can be severe and should be avoided.
One thing I would recommend is try not to taper the methadone TOO slowly, once you get down below a certain dose (exactly what that is varies from person to person) it can become like ripping off a bandaid in that doing it more slowly just prolongs the suffering. If you get down to a dose that simply won't hold you no matter how long you wait in between cuts or how small you make the cuts then I think it's worth it to just carry on with the taper as opposed to waiting months between each cut and cutting by like 0.5mg at a time in the hopes that if you just do it slowly enough you will somehow avoid pain. This might not happen to you since you've only been on methadone around 4 months but just wanted to explain if it does happen I feel it's better to just force oneself to keep tapering and get it over with.
Best of luck to you
If you have only been on it for a few months, are currently only taking 25mg/day, plan to taper it and have good comfort meds then it really shouldn't be too horrible in relative terms. Of course it's different for everyone, but deciding to get off it now is a very wise move as you will have a much easier time than someone who has been on it for years. But you want to be careful not to get dependent on the drugs you use to help ease your withdrawal. A methadone taper, subsequent withdrawal and PAWS last so long that if you are taking clonidine and Valium that whole time you will end up physically dependent on them. So be careful about that. Clonidine dependence isn't too bad, as far as I understand its WD is mostly elevated blood pressure and some insomnia, which should be alleviated by tapering off the clonidine. Valium dependence on the other hand can be severe and should be avoided.
One thing I would recommend is try not to taper the methadone TOO slowly, once you get down below a certain dose (exactly what that is varies from person to person) it can become like ripping off a bandaid in that doing it more slowly just prolongs the suffering. If you get down to a dose that simply won't hold you no matter how long you wait in between cuts or how small you make the cuts then I think it's worth it to just carry on with the taper as opposed to waiting months between each cut and cutting by like 0.5mg at a time in the hopes that if you just do it slowly enough you will somehow avoid pain. This might not happen to you since you've only been on methadone around 4 months but just wanted to explain if it does happen I feel it's better to just force oneself to keep tapering and get it over with.
Best of luck to you
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post guys! I really appreciate it and I love the advice you guys have given me. I've made it down to 20 mg completely painlessly. The benefits of reducing my dose are beginning to show and give me extra hope and motivation as well. I appreciate your encouragement Alex. I often find myself jumping onto the "Anti-Methadone" stigma, but when it comes down to it, Methadone is an amazing tool if used correctly, and a horrifying one when abused. When I went to the clinic, I would often overhear veterans telling the noobies to "Try to get your dose up as high as you can as fast as possible." Every week, the doctor would suggest I increase my dose. It was a serious battle to keep my dose as low as I did. It's unfortunate that a good amount of methadone clinics are more concerned with maintaining their patients (money in their pockets) than total recovery (a loss of money.) It's good to be reminded of the battles you've already overcome instead of the hurdles that lie ahead. Do you think that it could be helpful to switch to subs for a week or two after I've bottomed out my methadone dosage? I know I have to experience some sort of withdrawal one way or another, but I wonder if there's a way to switch between Buprenorphine and Methadone to minimize discomfort.
Again, I can't thank you enough for the encouragement and advice. I'll update as I make progress and would love your continued advice and support. Thanks guys.
Again, I can't thank you enough for the encouragement and advice. I'll update as I make progress and would love your continued advice and support. Thanks guys.
out of all the opiates id consider to be in the extremely potent category, meth is the easiest to come off due to the simple fact that u can literally taper down to .5mg before you detox.
Toz
Bluelighter
Of all the opiates I have quit, methadone was the easiest. Why? Because I tapered for months, 5mg at a time. I think all opiates can be detoxed from quite painlessly, provided you take your time doing so. It's extremely long half-life makes for easy tapering imo.
Pattybarnes
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 6
I gotta say, out of all of the methadone posts that i have read (100s probably), I feel like I relate to this one the most...
I started doing opiates about 3-4 years ago and only about 1.5 years ago did I start doing them regularly until I was doing 50-100mgs of Oxy a day. This isnt very high compared to alot of other people. I tried kicking on my own but it became apparent very quickly that i was going to need some help so i decided to see a doctor about methadone.
I started methadone about 1.5 months ago. I started at 20mg. It took the WDs away and i was in no pain at all so i decided to just stay with that dose. About 2 weeks ago i moved down to 17 mgs and i feel fine. Painless.
I too wonder how i will feel when i taper down to 1-5 mgs and then stop. I feel like it will be relatively painless. Can anyone give me any advice on this?
I feel like if i would have started methadone at 10mgs it would have been enough to make me not need to take oxys.
For me, it wasnt really as much the mental desire to take them once i was physically hooked. I have always had an extremely addictive personality but once i found myself physically addicted to Oxy the minimum dose of methadone that i could have taken to make the physical wds stop i feel would have been a good enough dose. I understand that i am different then alot of the people who are having issue on here.
I read people talking about the thomas recipe and all these other comfort drugs to help with methadone wds and it just makes me wonder what the point of taking the methadone is in the first place. When i was looking to kick oxys everywhere i looked gave the same exact advice about the benzos, clonidine, thomas recipe etc
By starting methadone and slowly tapering down to 1-5 mgs i thought that was to get around the withdrawls of the opiate your originally addicted too. Or is it to maintain a more productive lifestyle? My life has been no more productive on the methadone then it has been on oxys.
I dont know, can someone shed some light?
I started doing opiates about 3-4 years ago and only about 1.5 years ago did I start doing them regularly until I was doing 50-100mgs of Oxy a day. This isnt very high compared to alot of other people. I tried kicking on my own but it became apparent very quickly that i was going to need some help so i decided to see a doctor about methadone.
I started methadone about 1.5 months ago. I started at 20mg. It took the WDs away and i was in no pain at all so i decided to just stay with that dose. About 2 weeks ago i moved down to 17 mgs and i feel fine. Painless.
I too wonder how i will feel when i taper down to 1-5 mgs and then stop. I feel like it will be relatively painless. Can anyone give me any advice on this?
I feel like if i would have started methadone at 10mgs it would have been enough to make me not need to take oxys.
For me, it wasnt really as much the mental desire to take them once i was physically hooked. I have always had an extremely addictive personality but once i found myself physically addicted to Oxy the minimum dose of methadone that i could have taken to make the physical wds stop i feel would have been a good enough dose. I understand that i am different then alot of the people who are having issue on here.
I read people talking about the thomas recipe and all these other comfort drugs to help with methadone wds and it just makes me wonder what the point of taking the methadone is in the first place. When i was looking to kick oxys everywhere i looked gave the same exact advice about the benzos, clonidine, thomas recipe etc
By starting methadone and slowly tapering down to 1-5 mgs i thought that was to get around the withdrawls of the opiate your originally addicted too. Or is it to maintain a more productive lifestyle? My life has been no more productive on the methadone then it has been on oxys.
I dont know, can someone shed some light?
opiatekrzy
Bluelighter
feeling sweaty or hot flashes is a common side effect from methadone. Even if ur not in withdrawl, it is such a long acting drug, that reducing ur dose will be somewhat painless, our minds are powerful things to make us believe were hurting. I was on 130mg at the methadone clinic, they kicked me out, and tapered me 10mg decrease every 3 days. Honestly, it was a cake walk, I felt no noticeable or uncomfortable withdrawl symptoms, when got under 50mg, I started to get worried, but then again I think it was my mind telling me "OMG u were on 130, and down to ONLY 50mg, ur gonna be sick". HOnestly I thnk the real problem begins once u are down to ZERO MG.
If u go to a methadone clinic, u can choose to decrease as slow as u want, since it is in liquid form, u can decrease as little as 1mg a week or a month if u wish to do so....but I think the real problems will occur after ur off methadone, going thru mental cravings, PAWS..goodluck to you...my girlfriend was on 110mg of methadone, she goes down 3mg every 2 weeks, and feels no withdrawl
people give methadone a lot of bad rep," that it gets into your bones, muscles, and so saturated in u that u will go thru the worst withdrawl of ur life, and it lasts 3 months" I believe this to be bullshit, the withdrawl is why u feel like ur bones and muscles hurt, not because its embedded all in ur bones and muscles. I has a super long half life, tapering off of it slowly u wont even notice at all!!
If u go to a methadone clinic, u can choose to decrease as slow as u want, since it is in liquid form, u can decrease as little as 1mg a week or a month if u wish to do so....but I think the real problems will occur after ur off methadone, going thru mental cravings, PAWS..goodluck to you...my girlfriend was on 110mg of methadone, she goes down 3mg every 2 weeks, and feels no withdrawl
people give methadone a lot of bad rep," that it gets into your bones, muscles, and so saturated in u that u will go thru the worst withdrawl of ur life, and it lasts 3 months" I believe this to be bullshit, the withdrawl is why u feel like ur bones and muscles hurt, not because its embedded all in ur bones and muscles. I has a super long half life, tapering off of it slowly u wont even notice at all!!
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I've been off for about 10-12 days now. So it was almost 7 months I was on it. Tapered to like 20, then 15 for a while then probably a month taper down to 5mg with a couple days of taking like 40, because well, I'm addicted to opiates and its fun. I just stopped after 5mg. I went through about 15mg of xanax, taking no more than 2mg a day, mostly to sleep. It was honestly a cake walk. I still can't sleep very well, and I sweat a lot, but methadone withdrawal is supposed to be horrible. Its unbelievable how many emotions and bodily sensations/feelings I had been missing for the past 7 months. I'm really glad to be off, and it's really not that bad. Good luck