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Do you think it's possible to use opiates long-term without abusing them?

Longhauler

Longhauler

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From the age of 15 until I turned 40, I abused opiates and detoxed many, many times. Usually my sober time would last a only few weeks before I snorted a line of H or oxy... A few years ago I discovered kratom. I switched to kratom to cure my oxy wd, then I tapered the kratom slowly and finally got clean. For many years now, I managed to avoid physical addiction while still using kratom and other ''weak'' opiates a few times each week. On some weeks I do it every other day, on others only once during the week, but I almost always skip at least one day between doses.

Many opiate users seem to think that a controlled use is nearly impossible. Well, do you think I bullshit you? Why?
 
I don't know if it's possible, but surely i dream of it, as i still find a life with ZERO opiates unacceptable. It really makes me sad just to think about it.

I am really impressed that you have been able to use a few times a week without going back to daily use. I've never used kratom so i don't know if it plays a part, but after the years when i was an everyday user, i found that a once-a-week regime is the shortest i can handle. And to be honest, maybe it's already too much: IME, tolerance to the euphoric effects will grow anyway as months pass by, and i will begin to rely more and more on opiates mentally (even without using them) and be more depressed, until some shit happens (anything, really...) and i will begin to use everyday again. It's a fucking thin line.

Recently i have screwed my controlled use once again and got high everyday for like three months, and now after a short taper i've been clean for two week and i'm back to once-a-week use. It's not the first time something like this happens, so surely as you grow old alongside your habit, you are able to control your shit better: you become experienced, you don't make the same mistakes or become mad after these things as when you were a rookie, but i think that if i continue like this, my future life will be a constant keep-things-together/addiction/detox cycle. So i won't really avoid abuse, it will just become manageable, but of course it will still effect my entire life.
 
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IMO no. I have seen wayyyy to many friends/family fall to oxy/other opiate addictions. You may be able to not get physically addicted, but you're probably part of a pretty small percentage. I used opiates very occasionaly (mainly to come down from stims) but I didn't really find them euphoric. Anyways, I would say they are easily in the top 5 of most addictive substances.
 
My friend has been doing it for 7 years. I'd leave all my drugs with him and tell him he may have as much as he wants if he only keeps it safe for me. He has never been addicted to anything nor do I think he will ever be. It just doesn't fit him.

Months later I'd retreive them and a few pills or maybe half a gram of heroin was gone...

But yea he's probably the only person in the world I'd feel safe doing this with ;)
 
Well I don't want to ''impress'' anybody, just want to make it clear that it's very possible... Also, it required no particular ''effort'' on my part so I don't deserve any kind of merit for controlling my use.

I believe 4 things may explain why I managed to stay free of physical addiction for almost 6 years now:

- The fact that i don't do strong opiates anymore (not saying I wouldn't do a line of oxy if it was offered :|). Kratom doesn't get me ''high''... it sure improves my mood, gives me energy, etc., but I never feel intoxicated like on H or oxy. Eating kratom makes me feel good and seems to keep me out of depression, but since the effect is relatively weak euphoria-wise, I never seek it as I sought an oxy or H high, and I can wait much longer for my next ''fix''.
- Age and experience... I guess I acquired some discipline with time, and my EXTREMELY long and painful benzo taper, plus my 2 last opiate WDs, may have given me some practice at controlling my intake.
- The fact that on my opiate-free days, I use lyrica and weed for therapy and recreation 8)
- The fact that I'm in much better shape than I used to, eat better than before and periodically use other meds, such as rhodiola rosea and SJW, to control my depressive states.

All that being said, I don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE that I ever abuse and become physically dependent again, just less probable. I sure ain't no superman... I just think that I struck some kind of balance. Just wanted to let you know that it IS possible to use an opiate moderately, for a long time.

IMO, it's partly to avoid responsibility, and to deny their immaturity, that many drug abusers accuse the substance they abuse itself as the sole culprit of the abuse. That's why I can't stand the false ''disease'' theory pleasing the addict and reinforcing the ignorance of policy-makers criminalizing the very use of certain drugs. Nobody's born with the ''disease'' of addiction, and abuse (after some sober time, at least) IS curable. Sure, abstinence is MUCH safer for an ex-abuser, but it ain't the only solution.
 
I'm sure it's possible. But in my opinion it's not likely (but of course there's people that can do it.) I used opiates for a good 8 years or so. Most times I kept things in check, however every now and then I'd end up using everyday for a month or 2 straight, then go through withdrawal. Then I'd be like "okay I learned my lesson." I'd break for a bit, then I'd go back to using recreationally for a few months, and then end up on them every day again. This has been my cycle for those 8 years.
 
And HO, one thing IS possible for sure: it IS possible to avoid physical addiction for at least 6 years LOL =D

No but seriously, I did it guys... Will I manage to avoid addiction for the rest of my life, that I ain't absolutely sure...
 
There might be exceptions but overall I would say no. I could never control myself on opiates.
That doesn't mean every person will go nuts with them. Just going by my experiences and what I've seen.
 
Let's say this. I cured myself of benzos, absolutely and completely. I will never use them again willingly, period.

I managed to avoid physical addiction to opiates for the last 6 years. I don't feel invincible in this department, but I do feel that unless circumstances push me hard in this direction (say, if I find a great connect, etc.) I won't get caught again. I think I relapsed at least fifty times in my opiate addict career. Do I feel superior than opiate addicts? Certainly not, in fact I feel somehow lucky that kratom kind of calmed my urges, and I consider myself heavily dependent on kratom psychologically. I always considered, even when I was heavily dependent on opiates to physically function, that it was 80% my fault, not the substance. I never accepted the ''disease'' theory, even tho I believe that repeated exposure to opiates and other drugs of abuse ''spellbind'' the mind and diminish the independence of the will, if you will...

I don't see exactly what I would gain in telling you guys lies... What would be the point? Acquiring a good rep on BL??

I'm just a kratom enthusiast :D
 
Props to you bro for being able to control it. For me it's impossible. I think it's like this for me because I feel I'm an overall better person to be around when I'm high on opiates. I'm always in a good mood. My girl absolutely loves when I'm high but little does she know I'm actually high. I'm a lovey person on it and express my feelings much better plus the sex is mind blowinggggg lol. I know a lot of people say there sex drive takes a dive on opiates but mine does the exact opposite. I can't get enough. Ya it's a pain in the ass to actually nut but man can i fuck like an animal when high ;)
 
It depends on how we use the word addiction. Perhaps any patter of recreational drug use can be seen as addiction.
Using opiates once a month shows you're not addicted...not addicted to what? Doing it once a week? Yes sure, but you're still hooked through the bag into once a month...not addicted? Why you don't stop then? Because you are addicted.

Or maybe not...it's not for me to say...just sharing my thoughts.
Best wishes
 
Elven Warriorr said:
Hell no. It's extremley unlikely. There's a reason that opiates (such as heroin) are considered harder drugs, and alcohol isn't. Most people who try out alcohol don't become alcoholics, while most people who try out harder drugs become addicts. The addiction process is much quicker with harder drugs than with alcohol. Many people aren't even at a risk for alcohol addiction (like people who have a glass of alcohol on the holidays, or even people who get drunk at parties), while most people who try out harder drugs will usually become addicts.

The physical addiction process is even more severe and quicker with harder drugs than it is with alcohol. A baby cannot be born physically addicted to alcohol, but the same is not true for harder drugs.

There's a reason opiates are considered harder drugs. To answer the OP, the answer is almost certainly no. Yes, it's hypothethically possible, but it's extremley unlikely.
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Really, at first when I read your post yesterday, you pissed me off... Then I relaxed and reflected. I can't be mad at people not believing me! Because even if my intent is not to brag about it, I understand that I may come across as a lousy full of shit mythomaniac... I spent a good part of the night thinking about what I could reply to make you think twice :?, but I realize it's probably impossible to convince skeptics over the internet...

BTW, your comparison with the physical addiction of alcohol is lousy: sure, a baby can't technically be born addicted to alcohol, fuck he'll be born retarded if the mother was a heavy drinker... whereas a newborn addicted to opiates will likely endure a lot of pain, yet won't be otherwise mentally or physically affected by the situation once detoxed. So your example only shows the relative safety of being addicted to opiates, compared to being an alcoholic, when pregnant 8) It is well-known that the use of pharmaceutical opiates instead of cut street dope, and not injecting, is a lot less damaging to the body than alcoholism... Hey, I'm not trying to condone the use and/or abuse of opiates in a safe manner, only want to put things in a larger perspective a bit.

What I do is not easy, I know, and it wasn't always easy for me either. Hell, it's still not always easy not to use when I know I shouldn't, but I'm telling the truth when I tell you guys that for the last six years, I managed to avoid p-h-y-s-i-c-a-l addiction. The last time I took a full-week break, a month ago, I suffered no insomnia, no chills, no anxiety, no nothing... It still was a long week, so I do admit that I'm psychologically addicted. Again, I use other meds, like pregabalin and herbal and pharmaceutical antidepressants, that may help a lot.. Did you know that many studies confirmed the induction of opioid neuropeptides by rhodiola? Maybe it, along with pregabalin, does help quite a bit in making me feel alright on my opioid-free days! Don't you think? Whatever... Maybe if you could do what I do for a few months, you wouldn't be so antagonizing...
 
Longworthb said:
Props to you bro for being able to control it. For me it's impossible. I think it's like this for me because I feel I'm an overall better person to be around when I'm high on opiates. I'm always in a good mood. My girl absolutely loves when I'm high but little does she know I'm actually high. I'm a lovey person on it and express my feelings much better plus the sex is mind blowinggggg lol. I know a lot of people say there sex drive takes a dive on opiates but mine does the exact opposite. I can't get enough. Ya it's a pain in the ass to actually nut but man can i fuck like an animal when high ;)
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Maybe some day you'll change your pattern of use AND your opiate DOC, like I did, and you'll be able to use recreationally without physical addiction. I never thought it was impossible, so maybe that's why I can do it after thirty years or so of relatively safe use (I never injected, even if I used and abused all of them at one time or another - H, Oxy, hydrocodone, codeine, tramadol, oxymorphone (rarely), hydromorphone (often), morphine, methadone (ODed, very nearly died)...)

Whatever, I wish you the very best of luck in your opiate career. I do NOT condone the abuse, not even the recreational use of opiates! It is dangerous and may devastate your life big fucking time. I never was stupid with opiates, but I still made bad mistakes that nearly killed me, and other mistakes that made me loose precious people. It is impossible NOT to make any mistakes when you embark on an opiate career. I really am lucky to be alive today, even if I never injected, considering the lethal benzo-opiate mixes I did at times... I would not want my child to embark on such a career - even if I'm still totally against criminalization of users. And I do encourage, when I can, safe methods of administration, for those who feel like they need the so-called the invisible blanket... I don't think I'll ever stop completely, I'm not even sure I'll manage to avoid harder stuff and physical addiction forever... But I'm such a pig-head that I'm willing to try :) Moreover, I'm not even intimidated by the physical aspect of detoxing anymore (if it should happen! lol) Cheers!
 
Derschieber said:
It depends on how we use the word addiction. Perhaps any patter of recreational drug use can be seen as addiction.
Using opiates once a month shows you're not addicted...not addicted to what? Doing it once a week? Yes sure, but you're still hooked through the bag into once a month...not addicted? Why you don't stop then? Because you are addicted.

Or maybe not...it's not for me to say...just sharing my thoughts.
Best wishes
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Thanks for sharing these humble and honest thoughts! I DO admit that I mentally need opiates in my life. I am not physically addicted now, and my pattern of use doesn't really create familial or financial problems anymore, but frankly, sometimes I think that if I had never tried codeine that first time, I would be better off now... It's been a bumpy road, to say the least. I wasn't always very peaceful and at peace 8(

Wishing you a great day!
 
i think kratom is an exception, i can use it without withdrawals but if i even use codeine for a few days now then i throw myself into withdrawal for a day or two then feel extreme fatigue for like a week. Magically, if i take kratom during those times all symtoms disappear. Kratom doesn't really do anything for me other than give me a hint of euphoria and take away the PAWS and pain that opiates have caused me yet i still find it extremely useful. It might be a different story if i had a FST i could use whenever i want, it's that gross powder that controls my use.

Hydromorphone is my DOC but i started on codeine and have used it for years. Once i start using codeine a few times a week i end up getting stuck either using it to stay functional or i have to stop and face the shitty few days of withdrawal from it. Nothing like a morphine withdrawal but it still sucks.

i'd say it's certainly possible to use opiates long term without abusing them but you're going to need a never ending supply anyway because tolerance just builds and builds, even if you're not abusing it. That's the problem, you're always going to run out at some point and repeat the same old cycle.
 
RobotRipping said:
Kratom doesn't really do anything for me other than give me a hint of euphoria and take away the PAWS and pain that opiates have caused me yet i still find it extremely useful. (...)

i'd say it's certainly possible to use opiates long term without abusing them but you're going to need a never ending supply anyway because tolerance just builds and builds, even if you're not abusing it. That's the problem, you're always going to run out at some point and repeat the same old cycle.
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I love your appreciation of kratom! I basically agree with you: kratom doesn't give me the same ''high'' as Oxy, or even codeine. It is more of an antidepressant, pain-killing, no-jitters stimulant for me than an opiate per se. It does, however, succeed in keeping me out of temptation for stronger stuff. Kratom SATISFIES me and seems to be able to keep me out of trouble so far.

I don't agree with your last statement, cuz my tolerance almost did not increase over the years. Sure, if I wait a week, the effect is noticeably stronger for the same dose. But I specifically skip days and sometimes a full week in order to avoid tolerance - and so, physical addiction - issues.

Thanks for your comments :)
 
i suppose you treat tolerance differently than most then. i will just keep doubling the dose to get a lesser effect until i either run out of supplies or money, in which case, i take my tolerance breaks. I can take big breaks from opiates and within a few days be back to my former high doses. For me, i was high all day every day so long as i had drugs or money, i couldn't skip a day and definitely not a week; i'm sure tolerance flat lines at some point, i've never hit that point though.

i find kratom kind of similar to dextroamphetamine for some reason, just that smooth stimulation and focus. Kratom's effects are more subtle but definitely remind me more of a stimulant than an opiate, regardless of dose. Perhaps that's why it treats opiate cravings and PAWS so well.
 
For a number of years I have contemplated growing some opium poppies...I have a friend in another state who told me about his experiments...said he grew some and tried it...since then I've thought about doing the same...even bought some seeds to see if they will sprout...yea, they will grow...but I never did it...still, every now and then the thought comes to mind. It'll be easy to do where I live...grow any amount easily. But I resist this idea periodically.

Maybe we can say I am addicted, even I never used opiates before...every now and again, I have to resist...I know how stupid this concept sounds, but where's the difference...addicted to wanting to grow and try opium...lol

Probably best I don't give in.
 
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