Toothpaste, Fluoride, and your brain

[winterman]

I've hear rumors that fluoride has effects on the prefrontal cortex of the brain; like it has the potential to block specific chemicals/frequencies that flow through it. This section of the brain effects how we make decisions whether good or bad, and basically how we plan/monitor our complex cognitive behaviors in personality and social expressions. It functions by the way we determine consequences and the best of causes by our actions.
So I come to think of these cheap toothpaste brands that don't care but put fluoride in their tooth cleaning products. I tired the natural alternative which is more expensive, but I instantly recognized the difference; it feels so much better physically and mentally.

Yes I made a thread about toothpaste, say something about it.

 

[rangrz]

Based on everything in modern science, both theory and experiment, there is no reason to believe what you said about fluoride was, in any meaningful sense, "true".

Theory issues: Why would it specifically affect the prefrontal cortex? Solvated chemicals come VERY quickly into equilibrium in terms of their distribution. The same a pinch of sugar dissolved into a cup of water does not just stay in one part of the glass... Why would it block any chemicals or "frequencies"? Fluoride is not really a ligand for any receptor type associated with neurotransmitters. So, it can't be a competitive antagonist or anything like that. "Frequencies" What does that even mean? But in any case, a) ions and stuff can't "absorb" electric charges moving in a conductor (like your brain) they can only absorb energy carried by photons (be they "real" photons like used in Fourier transform infra-red photospectroscopy or "virtual" photons like in nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. Other, more exotic things like neutron activation spectroscopy are irrelevant to this discussion) b) even so, the absorption spectra for F^- ions does not overlap with any frequencies found on EEG type "brainwave" scans.
Nor does something as truly basic and simple as solvated atomic ion seem like it could cause such subtle and specific behavioral changes. It's really going to be more of a systemic and primarily physical effect. Similar solvated ions, when there are not enough or too many, tend to cause issues like cramping, dizziness, myoclonus and tremor, cardiac arrhythmia, respiratory failure, etc. In any case, they have wide ranging, systemic, physical effects.

Empirical/based on evidence from actual experiment and observation.
Acute fluoride toxicity is mainly gastrointestinal distress, but it can cause other electrolyte (i.e. other dissolved ion) imbalances in high doses and lead to renal failure and cardiac arrest. This is rarely encountered outside of industrial accidents involving hydrofluoric acid. You obviously don't have this issue. It also causes extremely severe burn injuries to tissues and that is usually more a pressing issue than the toxicity itself. Chronic toxicity is primarily skeletal issues, it's rather uncommon and readily diagnosed if you have a radiograph of any bones done.
Oh and also like A LOT of clinical trials have shown it to be extremely effective in reducing tooth decay prevalence.

 

[akautonomics]

" Sodium fluoride (NaF) is the most common source of fluoride, but stannous fluoride (SnF2), olaflur (an organic salt of fluoride), and sodium monofluorophosphate (Na2PO3F) are also used"
from Wikipedia

will those dissolve into ions in CSF?
Forget systemic toxicity, he's talking about specific action in the brain
I don't imagine chronic buildup of it could be a problem unless it is accumulating in a gland rather than bone?

I figure that if this is actually a thing, it's more chronic (i.e. putting fluoride in water/toothpaste, things people ingest every day) and it's a govt conspiracy of mind control. If the government is actually controlled by a super sapient technologically advanced species. They might be able to discover frequencies or chemicals affecting the intricate functions of the cortex that we have not yet identified.

If the government is actually just human politicians though, things like the FDA are probably legit and the levels of fluoride in ur water and tooth paste are probably negligible to cause anything physiological of clinical significance (or even that you would notice by switching to natural pastes. attribute that to placebo effect.. you were expecting it to happen.)

 

[ricardo08]

Last I checked Sodium Fluoride was listed as Schedule II poison under the Poisons Act 1972 in the UK. Is that in anyway significant? Shit, I don't know.

 

[rangrz]

Methanol is toxic too, but you produce from metabolism of artificial sweetener. Hydrogen Cyanide is poisonous, but it occurs in apple seeds. Uranium is toxic, so hopefully you don't eat stone ground bread, since granite has uranium typically. Radium is in Brazil nuts.

The difference? None of those have any beneficial effects and the doses are not tightly controlled.

Extra protip: a lot of mineral waters and well water have more fluoride than tap water. Usually more arsenic too...

 

[ricardo08]

Well that's reassuring I suppose. The whole idea that added sodium fluoride in our tap water was dangerous kind of lost all it's credibility with me when a bunch of pages from alex jones' forum popped up on google.

 

[jam uh weezy]

I don't understand why some people are so die-hard about justifying fluoride's addition to tap water. Is methanol, hydrogen cyanide, and uranium added to public drinking water? I may be wrong, but last I checked, the studies justifying fluoride's benefit for tooth decay are based on contact with teeth, not internal consumption. Yea, it is found in natural water sources, but at what PPM compared to tap water? How many other countries in the word add fluoride to their tap water?

OP: I don't think fluoridated toothpaste is much of an issue, the issue is if you drink municipal tap water. Who is opposed to fluoridation? some bid names there. Big names support it as well, i'm sure. but the fact that it is added to water WITHOUT public consent is somewhat unnerving. This decision is usually made on a more local level, for instance: the city council of the city right above the one i reside in has chosen NOT to fluoridate water, while the one I am in has done so, both without asking the city's inhabitants.

I'm not here to say that "hitler fluoridated the water for mind control" or any shit like that, i think those types of unprovable arguments are only discrediting. But learning about fluoride's source is somewhat disturbing.

Vitamin C is healthy for immune system, so let's add it to tap water! I'm joking of course, because i get vitamin c from the food i eat. just like the toothpaste i use has fluoride in it....so i don't need to drink the shit.

extra protip: alot of major bottled-water brands are simply filtered municipal water.

Well that's reassuring I suppose. The whole idea that added sodium fluoride in our tap water was dangerous kind of lost all it's credibility with me when a bunch of pages from alex jones' forum popped up on google.

so essentially, you are still letting alex jones make a decision for you.

 

[F1n1shed]

I keep reading conflicting information on this. Most of the credible research says it is toxic in many ways, and not needed. But then you read in low doses it is good for your teeth in high doses blah blah. I hate conflicting information, but if i were to make a guess. Use it with your tooth paste but why the FUCK does it need to be spread through out our water. There are so many other vitamins and minerals that are beneficial to us, why just choose fluoride and flood it in our water....

 

[dimensiontripping]

Flouride is a neuro-toxin for children and flourosis is extremely common now. Flouride is a totally unnecessary addition to the water and is ultimately dangerous for your health. There is research suggesting that is calcifies the pineal gland. Now if this is a conspiracy, putting flouride in the water seems to be "dumbing down" the general population while serving a weapon in a spiritual war on mankind. I personally use a water filter that filters 90% of the flouride out and use non flouride toothpaste. I also avoid sugars, refined flours and processed foods at all cost and I know my diet is acting as an important component to not needing flouride in my water. Flouride may serve a purpose for those who are consuming MASSIVE amounts of sugar and eating processed flours everyday.

 

[steve022]

I've hear rumors that fluoride has effects on the prefrontal cortex of the brain; like it has the potential to block specific chemicals/frequencies that flow through it. This section of the brain effects how we make decisions whether good or bad, and basically how we plan/monitor our complex cognitive behaviors in personality and social expressions. It functions by the way we determine consequences and the best of causes by our actions.
So I come to think of these cheap toothpaste brands that don't care but put fluoride in their tooth cleaning products. I tired the natural alternative which is more expensive, but I instantly recognized the difference; it feels so much better physically and mentally.

Yes I made a thread about toothpaste, say something about it.

I have made attempts at reducing my flouride intake as well and I agree that it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

[thujone]

the flouride hubbub is sensationalism, however, the antifungal triclosan that is found in Colgate toothpastes has been linked to adverse biological effects, strongly enough that the FDA acknowledges a potential risk from overexposure.

 

[bit_pattern]

so essentially, you are still letting alex jones make a decision for you.

I think it's an excellent criteria for quickly deciding whether something is complete bunkum - another good indicator would be seeing websites titled "fluoride alert" and not, say, the FDA, or CSIRO, or the NAS, the CDC or any other reputable source of information.

just like the toothpaste i use has fluoride in it....so i don't need to drink the shit.

Most people brush once, maybe twice a day, fluoride is topical so by it being in the water it gives you a boost of sorts in the twelve to twenty four hours when your not brushing your teeth. And the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so to speak. In regions where water is not fluoridated the is an appreciably higher rate of tooth decay, regardless of the brushing habits of the people who live there, han in regions where water is fluoridated. Also, fluoridation has the greatest benefit for people of lower socio-economic status who can't afford the same level of dental care as people of higher status, making it one of the more equitable public health initiatives embarked upon.

I have made attempts at reducing my flouride intake as well and I agree that it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

That's called confirmation bias.

There is research suggesting that is calcifies the pineal gland.

Yes but so does calcium and phosphorus.

 

[What 23]

I've read goji berries help restore gland function. There are claims it can help to decalicify the pineal, but I don't remember any science to it. They do increase HGH production...

 

[bit_pattern]

I've read goji berries help restore gland function. There are claims it can help to decalicify the pineal, but I don't remember any science to it. They do increase HGH production...

Do you believe everything you read?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say - based on a quick review of search terms on Google and Google Scholar - that the calcification of the pineal gland CAN'T be reversed (and certainly not by fucking goji berries) because the only people talking about such a phenomenon are batshit crazy loons.

Indeed, the only reference do decalcification I can find in the literature involve removing the gland from the brain after death and soaking it in formic acid.

But, hey, keep on eating those goji berries - they might not be doing, well, anything for your health but at least helping to make someone, somewhere quite rich. No one every went broke overestimating the gullibility of people on the internet

 

[thujone]

goji berries are pretty delicious though...

 

[What 23]

Never did I imply that I believed what I read, or what was claimed. I even said I didn't remember seeing any science in support of it. If you want to correct me or provide insight, good! But leave your sarcastic attitude out of it.

As for them being a healthy addition to ones diet, there are a number of reasons they might be.

I also read, a claim, that the region in China where these are grown and eaten daily has many more centenarians than the rest of the country. But that might take some checking to believe.

Can you dispute that they stimulate the production of HGH?

 

[bit_pattern]

goji berries are pretty delicious though...

Perhaps, but that's not what people pay the big bucks for though.

Never did I imply that I believed what I read, or what was claimed. I even said I didn't remember seeing any science in support of it. If you want to correct me or provide insight, good! But leave your sarcastic attitude out of it.

Then why did you say it? Oh, I know - you were JAQing Off.

As for them being a healthy addition to ones diet, there are a number of reasons they might be.

Apart from proving the usual nutritional benefits of any other berry then none of it has any scientific and/or medical basis to it

I also read, a claim, that the region in China where these are grown and eaten daily has many more centenarians than the rest of the country. But that might take some checking to believe.

Buuuut, you'll uncritically repeat here anyway. You should learn the difference between correlation and causation - I'm sure there's some kind of common phrase that describes the difference.

Can you dispute that they stimulate the production of HGH?

No but LOT'S of foods which don't cost exorbitant amounts because they're all exotic-y sounding do that too! Pineapple, broad beans, eggs, yoghurt etc etc etc. All a shit load cheaper than some mystical berry from Himalayas that been dried and cured between the thighs of a Tibetan monk 8)

 

[What 23]

They're really not that expensive. Maybe I'm used to shelling out lots of money for organic food though. I get 12 oz for 10-12 bucks. Considering I can eat them I'd pay 20. Though, I did stop buying them because dried fruit sucks for the teeth. Soaking them helps with that but I'm impatient. They also contain atropine which dries me up- another reason I stopped.

I'm not qualified to argue with you if this berry is or isn't better than certain other things, honestly, but I don't think you are either. If price is the main concern by dry weight they may be about a third or 50% more expensive than blueberries.

Edit: No... They're less expensive than some. At Nuts.com they're about a dollar less per pound.

Edit: 8 not 12 oz.

 

[bit_pattern]

They're really not that expensive. Maybe I'm used to shelling out lots of money for organic food though. I get 12 oz for 10-12 bucks. Considering I can eat them I'd pay 20. Though, I did stop buying them because dried fruit sucks for the teeth. Soaking them helps with that but I'm impatient. They also contain atropine which dries me up- another reason I stopped.

A 350g egg costs about $0.20
A 350g piece of pineapple costs about $2
350g of broad beans costs about $1.50

etc etc etc

Plus you can eat this shit fresh rather than having the life and probably most of the benefit dried out of it.

I'm not qualified to argue with you if this berry is or isn't better than certain other things, honestly, but I don't think you are either.

I understand that you're clearly not qualified enough to think critically and Google shit for yourself but I most certainly am.

 

[What 23]

Oh wow, you can Google shit.

Listen... If you want to start a thread about the advantages of different foods I may contribute. But I'd rather not here. I didn't mean for what I said in passing to blow up like you always seem to make things do.

Thinking critically? All you do is criticize. You say correlation doesn't equal causation and then you seem to jump the gun like to say it isn't a causative factor. It might be. Another might be the higher altitudes.

Compared to other organic berries (blue), organic gojis are actually less expensive through some sources (by dry weight).