Substance Legalization Discussion.

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

ETA: Pagey and people: legalized doesn't mean totally unregulated/anyone can get it!! And I STRONGLY doubt that heroin use would skyrocket if it were legalized and there is evidence to the contrary, considering that countries have legalized various drugs have declining rates of use. [/hr]

I realise that but the OP mentioned needing to get a 'drug license' which sounds like something most people could achieve fairly easily.

I was thinking of it in the same way as Pagey, if it only took getting a license to acquire, it sounds like it would be pretty simple to get. I just see it being too easy for people to get and with it being legal, people would think about it in a different light/think of it as less harmful/addictive than it really is. I see many people trying it now that it's legalized and forming a habit, which would be detrimental and skyrocket use.

If it were legalized for medicinal use that would be a much different situation.

 

[neversickanymore]

ETA: Pagey and people: legalized doesn't mean totally unregulated/anyone can get it!! And I STRONGLY doubt that heroin use would skyrocket if it were legalized and there is evidence to the contrary, considering that countries have legalized or decriminalized various drugs have declining rates of use. One of the reasons I wanted to try heroin was because it was illegal and there was so much hype and stigma surrounding it. And no one seems to be responding to the OP's ideas about harm reduction training, real honest education about the risks, easy access to HR supplies and Narcan, etc.[/hr]

Agree with this 100%

 

[oxyschottin]

Decrim. IMO throwing an addict in jail just provides more connections and a stigma that is difficult to share. I don't believe there is much medical value compared to other opiates to due to the amount of euphoria with the pain relief. From a medical standpoint one could use pharms as prescribed Experience less euphoria ( less chance of addiction) and get pain relief, instead if using heroin experience euphoria and pain relief and find the euphoria being the main premis of there use..

If that makes sense

 

[Pagey]

True, opioids aren't an entirely seperate category, but they do have more physical dependence than a lot of drugs. People absolutely don't have good self-control when it comes to heroin, but I truly don't think legalization would worsen that situation at all. What do you envision as an alternative to the current situation with drugs like heroin then? Surely you can't think it's fine the way it is

Well, no, I'm indeed not big on the current situation but...to be honest I haven't given it much thought because seeing as it's unfortunately just not a realistic fantasy, I don't really dwell on it.
I think heroin should remain illegal, except for medicinal purposes like in the UK. I know that sounds really hypocritical coming from a heroin user but I feel like people should be 'pushed' from it as much as possible (well, maybe not, but they shouldn't be 'encouraged' to try it like they would be if it were readily available), and if they choose to use anyway then that's their responsibility.
However I also think the laws regarding what happens to heroin users need to change. Dealing/trafficking I'm not talking about as that's a whole other matter and I don't hae much respect for dealers, at all. But heroin users need to stop being treated as the scum of the earth and the penalties/legal consequences need to be lessened IMO.

I was thinking of it in the same way as Pagey, if it only took getting a license to acquire, it sounds like it would be pretty simple to get. I just see it being too easy for people to get and with it being legal, people would think about it in a different light/think of it as less harmful/addictive than it really is. I see many people trying it now that it's legalized and forming a habit, which would be detrimental and skyrocket use.

If it were legalized for medicinal use that would be a much different situation.

Basically what I was thinking.

 

[boomer11]

Again, thanks for input everybody. I'll try to respond to each comment in order.

Decriminalization of Marijuana is something that has proven to help some aspects of a community.
Decriminalization or legalization of heroin and other opiates would be a disaster.
Think of how many deaths would occur.. Not a good vision imo.

Again, I disagree with this statement. I think if it was dispensed in standard doses so the user knows exactly how much they are injecting, there would be less ODs. Also I naloxone would be cheap/given away so all users would have it incase of OD.

Why are heroin and morphine more dangerous when IV'ed than other drugs?
IV cocaine is considered by a lot of people to be way more addictive than IV heroin (I know I keep mentioning coke, but it's just the easiest example that comes to mind).

I'm not sure if you were talking to me or RD about the 'if heroin were legal everyone would want to do it' point...I feel like you're talking to me though so I should just make clear that I didn't mean that. It's more that everyone who tries it and likes it, will continue doing it. And most people who try it like it.
The difference with, say, cigs, is that most people have smoked at least one cigarette in their life, be it only out of curiosity. Lots of them decided not to continue for health concerns, money concerns, etc etc. But the number of people who try heroin just once and walk away from it is very, very small indeed. And if everyone could have access to it I'm sure a very large number of people would wanna try it out just to see how it feels.
And yeah, if you reaaaally wanted a drug you wouldn't care if it were legal or not, but I know a ton of people who'd gladly try pretty much any drug on the face of the planet if it were readily available and legal. They just don't want to to the point of going through the system as it is.

I agree a new approach is necessary. I think it would need to be thought out a LOT though. Like, a lot. And I still don't think opies should be singled out. Especially considering that they make people so much more tame (while on them) than the current legal drug that is alcohol, for instance.
And I'm saying all this as a heroin addict who's taken plenty of the drugs you mentioned as well.

Again I'm just assuming here, but I'm guessing that in almost all cases, opiates are the first IVed drug someone uses, so usually people IVing coke are also using opiates. So if you could deter someone from becoming addicted to opiates, you would have far less people IVing cocaine. IME, powder cocaine isn't very addictive. Sure, when your on it you want more, but once its gone, just sleep it off and you wake up without thinking about it (until you have a few drinks next weekend lol).

There would be a sort of barrier to obtaining heroin, as you'd have to go through a class, and hear from many addicts about the detrimental effects it can have on your life. Again, I'm not sure how effective this would be; ask yourself, if you could go back in time and talk to your old self the day before you first tried opiates, and tell yourself all the negative effects its had on your life, would you listen? The problem with anti drug propoganda today is its all done by government workers who have never done drugs, so people don't even buy it for a second. The other day I saw an anti smoking commercial featuring a guy who had to amputate his limbs... an extremely rare syndrome which I don't think would scare anyone away from it (1 in a million chance, fuck it!)

And I think the stigma would remain, which would keep people from wanting to try it. Alcohol has almost no stigma these days, and I think it should because its one of the worst drugs. Cigs on the other hand do carry a stigma (to some people) and it does deter use.

This is a really tough question and one I've given some thought to as a former heroin addict.

I mean, one option is to go with a model like in some European countries where one can get legally prescribed heroin (although this seems to be becoming less and less common) if you are already addicted and haven't been able to quit through the usual methods (detox, methadone, etc). But in practice only a small fraction of heroin users are prescribed the drug and it does little, if anything, to stop the illegal drug trade. For example in London there are maybe around 100 people prescribed heroin, yet some estimates of the number of heroin users in the London area have been as high as 50,000-100,000, with at least 1000 new heroin addicts each year. However a lot of the problems may be because the prescription system is poorly implemented, a lot of which I believe is due to pressure from the US. Still, even a well-implemented more easily accessible heroin prescription program would not solve the problems that come with illicit heroin use for new users or users who don't meet the requirements, unless you went with a program with very little requirements where physical dependence wasn't even a prerequisite.

I like your idea of an approach that emphasizes harm reduction and recovery, while making heroin available in order to reduce many of the adverse consequences of it being illegal. However, there are still some potential issues with a formalized licensing process. I don't know if a lot of heroin users would like the idea of being on a government list of registered heroin users. And how would people be prevented from just selling their heroin to others? I think the whole thing with methadone programs in the US forcing people to go into for daily supervised ingestion is demeaning and adversely impacts the lives of methadone patients, and it would seem even less practical for heroin since the vast majority of people can't just use heroin once a day if they are physically dependent. So I don't like the idea of people being forced to only use their heroin under supervision at a clinic, but I also don't like the idea of people just getting a bunch of heroin to take home that they can then cut and sell on the black market. Personally I think I'd prefer the possibility of diversion over extremely strict rules a la methadone though.

How to integrate recovery...? I would say that might be very difficult in the US (I'm assuming that is where you live and are referring to? BL is an international forum), because drug companies don't care about people, they are sociopathic entities. If a pharmaceutical company gets a license to produce heroin, and the clinics/pharmacies/wherever they sell it are for-profit, then they would have no real interest in helping anyone get off of it. There are such enormous problems already with opioid maintenance programs, including (among many other things) people being deceived about dependence liability and people being encouraged to stay on methadone/Suboxone forever. I think that things would have to radically change.

If we are coming up with some utopian situation where anything is possible, I would say that a good start would be that people who use drugs like heroin should be treated with respect and compassion and there should be a huge support network to help them in many aspects of their lives, which at the same time is not forced upon them against their will (not rules like "going to the specific government approved meetings 3 times a week is a requirement in order to get your drugs"). This would be very costly initially and would require an individualized approach. If we had the ability to do something like this we should have the ability to reduce a lot of the problems which cause people to become addicted to opiates (and/or stay that way), and reduce a lot of the harm that comes with it, in the first place.

I'm sorry, I'm probably not being that helpful. I am just pessimistic about ANY form of legal heroin use EVER happening in the US, let alone a form I would personally approve of.

I could talk about this subject all day, just going around in circles. I do believe though that the perfect should not be the enemy of the good and we really need something other than methadone and Suboxone being the only options for opiate addicts. I would be in favour of pretty much any form of legal access to heroin, morphine or hydromorphone, even if it was limited to people who have a serious physical dependence who did not find methadone effective. Not that people should be forced to go on methadone in order to eventually get prescribed a shorter-acting more effective opioid that has much less severe and much shorter-lasting withdrawals. I really think any of those drugs would be far better options than methadone if people were able to use them safely and legally.

Truly encouraging recovery, even without any form of legalized opiate use, is something that I believe will require major changes to society, politics, and the way opiate addicts are viewed/treated.

Ok I'll shut up for now

PS - I don't live in the US, I live in Canada, but I highly doubt it's going to happen here any time soon either, there is so much backlash to a simple study of 25 people being prescribed heroin. But the US? Never.

---

ETA: Pagey and people: legalized doesn't mean totally unregulated/anyone can get it!! And I STRONGLY doubt that heroin use would skyrocket if it were legalized and there is evidence to the contrary, considering that countries have legalized or decriminalized various drugs have declining rates of use. One of the reasons I wanted to try heroin was because it was illegal and there was so much hype and stigma surrounding it. And no one seems to be responding to the OP's ideas about harm reduction training, real honest education about the risks, easy access to HR supplies and Narcan, etc.

Thank you for your input! Don't feel like your rambling, I'm interested to hear everything you have to say. BTW I'm also from Canada, thought it would show up under my name but I guess not.

And I know that most users wouldn't want to be on a gov list, but they wouldn't really have a choice. In this model the black market would be destroyed and the only place to get "cheap" high quality opiates would be through a government facility. And you would be able to sell to other people, in the same way people sell it right now with prohibition. Drugs would be sold in small quantities to deter irresponsible binging (would need to be tested or deeply thought out, but I would guess enough for 4 shots would be allowed to be sold per day, I'm assuming that's enough to stave off withdrawal. It's not a perfect system and some people would be able to cheat it but it would be somewhat effective for the most part I think.

I would keep big pharma out of the equation, because you are right that they are sociopathic. I would keep it all within the government, who has a stake in having a productive and healthy public, especially with free healthcare as in Canada. All the "profit" would go towards things like education, drug research, and community improvement initiatives, not the bottom line of a fortune 500 company.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get clean, and how long were you on for?
And I'd like to hear anything else you have to say so if your up to it, ramble away.

You're thinking if heroin as it currently is. Illegal it is considered a different class of drugs, but if it were legal people would think of it differently. If you had been brought up in a world where heroin was legal you'd have a very different view on it.

Again I have to disagree. I've tried tons of other illegal drugs, but have chosen to stay away from certain addictive ones. I don't classify drugs as illegal or legal. I look at their negative effects and addiction potential and decide if I would want to try it. Obviously not everyone thinks that way, but just from the dialog we're having here, where people who use/are addicted are saying it should never be legal is evidence that it is bad news. I don't think it would ever lose its stigma, and if it were to be made legal people would be even more educated about it deterred from trying it.

EDIT:
NOTE: Legal doesn't mean encouraged. The goal would be the EXACT same as it is now under prohibition; to reduce and prevent drug use. There would be no marketing or anything like that like you see with alcohol. Before someone has access to it they have to hear from real people giving their honest advise to not do it because its not worth it... that type of thing.

 

[boomer11]

I realise that but the OP mentioned needing to get a 'drug license' which sounds like something most people could achieve fairly easily. Apologies if I misunderstood.
Honestly I'm not really getting into the legalisation debate as such, I'm just trying to say that heroin shouldn't be considered in a category seperate from other drugs - but that we should also bear in mind that people don't have as much self-control as we'd like to think they do

Btw OP sorry if it sounds ilke I'm picking on you or something, I really don't mean it that way and as I said, I think this is quite a cool project, it's just the heroin vs. other drugs debate is one I tend to get passionate about haha.

Again, I only put it there because it seems to have, by far, the highest ratio or addicts : users, so would need the most control. Legalizing weed or MDMA would cause much less problems because theres 0 chance of getting physically addicted.

I don't take anything personally, I just want to hear different perspectives and appreciate yours.

 

[Abject]

I absolutely believe all drugs should be decriminalised/legalised.
Being on a HR website I can't fathom supporting an opposing perspective.

Here's a quote from one of my favourite mods

Enriching drug lords, treating regular members of the public like criminals, and neglecting drug abuse victims, far exceeds the damage done if the drugs were legal.

This is a point that cannot be overstated nor repeated often enough in contexts such as these. I have found myself facepalming and indexthumbnosebridging more times than during the Star Wars prequel trilogy when participating in or listening to debates re. the merits of drug decriminalization/legalization (D/L) vs those of prohibition for this reason alone. An expected increase in mean per capita usage (which is, of course, dubious to begin with) and volume of consumption are typically offered as deterrents to D/L, but the principle dilemma that is so often neglected is the one summarized above. The issue isn't whether one variable or another is significantly reduced - it's a matter of 1) How well the suggested policy's benefits stack up to its deficiencies and costs; 2) To what extent said policy's sociopolitical justification and implementation is in keeping with collective interests and current social theory; and 3) The actual plausibility of this policy's implementation in the first place, i.e., its relationship to consensus reality. If one considers these criteria to be effective metrics of legislative merit, the issue is unthinkably simple.

As mentioned by L2R above, the WOD is maintained on the behest of dubious historical tradition, rigid sociocultural attitudes, and, most importantly, the political cowardice of our leaders. Who has need for conspiracies when this all-powerful axis of idiocy can be readily cited for blame?

- P A

 

[Pagey]

Again I'm just assuming here, but I'm guessing that in almost all cases, opiates are the first IVed drug someone uses, so usually people IVing coke are also using opiates. So if you could deter someone from becoming addicted to opiates, you would have far less people IVing cocaine. IME, powder cocaine isn't very addictive. Sure, when your on it you want more, but once its gone, just sleep it off and you wake up without thinking about it (until you have a few drinks next weekend lol).

There would be a sort of barrier to obtaining heroin, as you'd have to go through a class, and hear from many addicts about the detrimental effects it can have on your life. Again, I'm not sure how effective this would be; ask yourself, if you could go back in time and talk to your old self the day before you first tried opiates, and tell yourself all the negative effects its had on your life, would you listen? The problem with anti drug propoganda today is its all done by government workers who have never done drugs, so people don't even buy it for a second. The other day I saw an anti smoking commercial featuring a guy who had to amputate his limbs... an extremely rare syndrome which I don't think would scare anyone away from it (1 in a million chance, fuck it!)

Maybe, I've honestly got no idea about that so I'm not gonna answer it to avoid saying something wrong.
As for powder cocaine...well there are definitely way more people who manage to use it recreationally and 'responsibly' than heroin, but there are also a lot of people who get sucked into it. Also addictive potential aside, people on coke do so much more shit and are so much more likely to harm themselves or others than people on heroin just because it's such an egocentric and aggressive drug. Whereas heroin is as chill as you can get.

I agree with you about the anti-drug propaganda. I think the problem is that the scare tacticts used today are too much. I mean - before I tried heroin I knew it had to feel amazing (or why would so many people be ready to kill for it?) and you've got the government and ads everywhere telling you only this negative stuff about it so it just comes across as bullshit. But the thing is I knew all that stuff, and I'd heard stories on here from other addicts, and I still did it. And lots of people did before me, and lots of people did after. Which is why I don't think heroin should be legalised (again, medicinal purposes aside). But similar things happen with other drugs, like meth for instance. That's all I'm trying to say.

And I think the stigma would remain, which would keep people from wanting to try it. Alcohol has almost no stigma these days, and I think it should because its one of the worst drugs. Cigs on the other hand do carry a stigma (to some people) and it does deter use.

I disagree. Look at the shit alcohol makes people do - if it were illegal I'm sure it would carry a ton of stigma. And cigarettes do, a bit, but millions and millions of people still smoke.
If heroin were legal there might still be a bit of a stigma but with time, it owuld go down a lot. I think.

Again I have to disagree. I've tried tons of other illegal drugs, but have chosen to stay away from certain addictive ones. I don't classify drugs as illegal or legal. I look at their negative effects and addiction potential and decide if I would want to try it. Obviously not everyone thinks that way, but just from the dialog we're having here, where people who use/are addicted are saying it should never be legal is evidence that it is bad news. I don't think it would ever lose its stigma, and if it were to be made legal people would be even more educated about it deterred from trying it.

The thing is, that's you - and it sounds like you've been smart and responsible with your drug use so far but you can't expect everyone to be.

Again, I only put it there because it seems to have, by far, the highest ratio or addicts : users, so would need the most control. Legalizing weed or MDMA would cause much less problems because theres 0 chance of getting physically addicted.

I don't take anything personally, I just want to hear different perspectives and appreciate yours.

Oh lol, I'm not fighting legalisation of weed or MDMA. By all means, those drugs should be legalised.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is - yes, I do agree that in general opiates seem to have a higher potential for addiction than any other class of drugs, and they certainly did for me. I mean I would probably sermon someone looking to get high on codeine because that's what got me started down the slippery slope. But you've also got to remember that there's a shitload of other very addictive drugs out there, many of which are much more damaging to the body than opiates, and many of which would probably be more damaging to the functioning of society if legal and available.

 

[RedRum OG]

If it was legal overdose would be much less common, as well as abscesses and infections of all kinds, because of quality regulation

As to if more people would use, it's anybody's guess. But if you use weed as an example, legalization does not increase use, especially in younger people

 

[boomer11]

Alcohol has a much lower risk of addiction though. Basically everyone drinks through highschool and beyond but a very small percentage of people become addicted, which is why it doesn't have that much of a stigma. I agree with you that people who are drunk are a nuissance and bound to FSU and do things they regret, and heroin produces a much calmer high which might almost be the opposite. But the odds of alcohol taking control of your (which is obviously still a possibility) appears to be far less than the odds of heroin taking you over.

I can't believe most people here are for prohibition when a) it didn't stop you from becoming an addict and b) makes the life of an addict infinitly harder by producing a low quality (and uncertain) at a hugely inflated price.

Now this is a complicated question, but wouldn't you life be/have been better if you had free/extremely cheap heroin that you could use to maintain yourself on, instead of spending tons (all?) of money on inflated heroin?? Of course this brings up the issue that if you have it for free all the time why would you ever stop....

 

[Pagey]

Oh I agree. Alcohol's definitely got a far lower addictive potential than heroin.
The thing is the stigma comes largely from the illegality too. If it were legal for a long enough stretch of time, it might still be considered a dangerous drug, but it wouldn't be looked at like it is today.

As I said, I know it sounds hypocritical for me to be anti heroin legalisation. But honestly if I could get heroin easily, legally and for free right now it would be wonderful at first but would end horribly. It would turn me into an apathetic, emotionless, empty shell. Yeah a lot of the issues I've faced so far regarding my use are related to potential legal & money problems, but if I could get it like you've postulated I'd probably be using it 24/7 - and when tolerance just never stops going up, then what?
I've been doing a great job quitting it and I'd never be able to in your situation. I'd still be that person who shuts out everyone from her life and doesn't do anything at all but lie in bed and get high, and I'd remain that person.
'Why would you ever stop'? Because you'd just stop feeling it after a while. There's only so much you can up your dose with tolerance. Honestly I'm scared to think what I and a ton of other heroin addicts would become if we could have all the heroin we wanted.

 

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

I can't believe most people here are for prohibition when a) it didn't stop you from becoming an addict and b) makes the life of an addict infinitly harder by producing a low quality (and uncertain) at a hugely inflated price.

I think you are looking at this wrong. We are not for prohibition, we are for harm minimization. You simply cannot give people such easy access to a powerful opioid and think it's going to do any good. You can educate people all you want but that's not going to stop them from making bad decisions.

As I said, I know it sounds hypocritical for me to be anti heroin legalisation. But honestly if I could get heroin easily, legally and for free right now it would be wonderful at first but would end horribly. It would turn me into an apathetic, emotionless, empty shell. Yeah a lot of the issues I've faced so far regarding my use are related to potential legal & money problems, but if I could get it like you've postulated I'd probably be using it 24/7 - and when tolerance just never stops going up, then what?
I've been doing a great job quitting it and I'd never be able to in your situation. I'd still be that person who shuts out everyone from her life and doesn't do anything at all but lie in bed and get high, and I'd remain that person.
'Why would you ever stop'? Because you'd just stop feeling it after a while. There's only so much you can up your dose with tolerance. Honestly I'm scared to think what I and a ton of other heroin addicts would become if we could have all the heroin we wanted.

It's not hypocritical of you Pagey, you're just being realistic.

 

[bagochina]

So my question is: How would you go about legalizing opiates?

I wouldn't, there is absolutely no reason why heroin should be legalized. I would also wish to have pharmaceutical opiates remain as they are, regulated by the FDA. If its not broken dont fix it.

Obviously opiod antagonists would be sold/given away to reduce OD deaths.

That already happens, there are multiple places around here to get strong antagonists for free. Does it help to reduce deaths? Maybe, very slightly though. Police departments around here are starting to pass measures that would allow them to carry OD reversal drugs in their cars. Now this makes a lot of sense seeing as how they are first responders and seconds matter.

how would you integrate recovery?

Free and easily accessible.

 

[Serotonin101]

In response to tolerance issues, Swiss did a study for the tolerance cap and its around 4g daily of pure diamorphine.

Back on topic: I was an IV user for a few years and destroyed my life with it. Should it be legalized in my eyes? You bet your ass it should be. Harm reduction at its finest really. I wont regurgitate the benefits the OP posted. Just because alcoholics exist doesn't make alcohol illegal. Just because drunk drivers kill people doesn't make every car come equipped with a breathalyzer. Just because cigarettes are a big contributer to many cancers and health problems doesn't make them illegal (I'm a 2pack a day smoker still). Prohibition caused many issues, just look back to alcohol prohibition in the US. Also Portugal seems to be doing alright. If heroin became legal, affordable, and easily accessable like alcohol would I go back to shooting dope? Not a chance.
This topic and the many like it have been beat to death in Drugs In the Media.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I wouldn't, there is absolutely no reason why heroin should be legalized. I would also wish to have pharmaceutical opiates remain as they are, regulated by the FDA. If its not broken dont fix it.

How can you possibly say the War on Drugs is not broken???

That already happens, there are multiple places around here to get strong antagonists for free. Does it help to reduce deaths? Maybe, very slightly though.

Maybe where you live, but naloxone is still not very easily accessible in many places in North America. 10 of the 13 US states with the highest rates of opioid overdose fatalities do not have any community-based opioid overdose prevention program that distributes naloxone.

There have been a number of studies done showing that distributing naloxone absolutely DOES reduce overdose deaths. For example the CDC reported that US programs for drug users prescribing take-home doses of naloxone and training on its utilization have reversed over 10,000 reported opioid overdoses (that's just the officially reported ones). And that's with pretty limited distribution.

I absolutely believe all drugs should be decriminalised/legalised.
Being on a HR website I can't fathom supporting an opposing perspective.

This is how I feel too. The harm from prohibition is just too great. It's pretty shocking to me that so many people on here don't support the idea of SOME form of regulation, legalization or decriminalization when it comes to opioids, even at least a very strict form like prescription to long-term addicts.

I think if it was dispensed in standard doses so the user knows exactly how much they are injecting, there would be less ODs.

Definitely. A lot of overdoses are due to the fact that street heroin is of unknown purity. That is how I overdosed, by doing the exact same quantity as usual and it turned out to be a stronger batch. After that I always did a small test shot but I had to learn the hard way. No Bluelight back then

In Vancouver we have a supervised injection site where people can inject pre-obtained illegal drugs under the supervision of nurses, so obviously purity and quantity aren't controlled, and some people still OD there, BUT THEY LIVE. It receives about 1000 visits a day. There has never been a fatal overdose. People who overdose inside receive medical care rapidly and even the fatal overdose rates in the surrounding area have dropped by 35%. Studies have also found the supervised injection site reduces adverse health risks of IV use and increases use of detox, addiction and recovery services.

If something like that can make such a difference, imagine what bigger changes could do.

There have also been studies that found prescribing heroin to addicts to be more effective in reducing the harm from drug use and improving people's lives, and more cost-effective (in terms of financial impact on society as a whole) than methadone.

ask yourself, if you could go back in time and talk to your old self the day before you first tried opiates, and tell yourself all the negative effects its had on your life, would you listen?

Honestly, I really think I would, if it were someone like me (and not, say, someone who the cops or courts occasionally force to go into high schools who I couldn't relate to and just said the typical "drugs are bad they ruined my life" thing). I really think truth when it comes to drugs is powerful. I see it in action every day on this forum.

I'm also from Canada, thought it would show up under my name but I guess not.

Oh, maybe it's because you are new to the forum or something

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get clean, and how long were you on for?

I used IV heroin for around 12 years. Somewhere in the middle of that I went on methadone, which obviously did not stop me from using heroin. I ended up on methadone for around 10 years. I absolutely regret ever going on methadone and it was much harder physically to quit than heroin (not to mention it was never enjoyable to me and didn't have any beneficial effect or "high"/mood elevation for me aside from alleviating withdrawal symptoms for a while. I eventually found an excellent compassionate doctor who supported my decision to get off methadone and prescribed a morphine taper and some non-opioid "comfort" meds to help with withdrawal. If that had been available when I was using heroin I believe I would have been able to quit much sooner. The biggest thing that enabled me to quit heroin (and eventually all opioids) was having someone in my life who loved/supported me unconditionally and didn't judge me. I can tell you more about my story if you want.

Legal doesn't mean encouraged. The goal would be the EXACT same as it is now under prohibition; to reduce and prevent drug use. There would be no marketing or anything like that like you see with alcohol. Before someone has access to it they have to hear from real people giving their honest advise to not do it because its not worth it... that type of thing.

I was just going to make that point. There are more options other than just total prohibition and totally unregulated free easy to get heroin!

 

[bagochina]

How can you possibly say the War on Drugs is not broken???

How can you possibly say heroin should be legalized? The war on some drugs is not broken, heroin being one of them. What good would come out of legalizing heroin?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

How can you possibly say heroin should be legalized? The war on some drugs is not broken, heroin being one of them. What good would come out of legalizing heroin?

I can't even begin to comprehend how anyone could think the War on Drugs is not broken. Even politicians who support it don't believe that. Someone going to prison for 7 years for using heroin is helping who exactly? If you don't support legalization that's fine, but to say that nothing needs to change is mind-boggling to me. It is outside my realm of understanding. Sorry.

As for what good could come out of legalization, have you been reading all the posts in this thread? Reducing crime? Reducing deaths? Reducing all sorts of harm from drug use to individuals and society? Potentially reducing drug use itself?

 

[bagochina]

We're talking about heroin not pot, legalizing pot makes sense, heroin doesn't. That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

[Bill]

Thought you'd be on the other side of the fence, seedless

 

[boomer11]

I could argue about how the War on Drugs has ruined millions of lives and cost trillions of dollars world wide, and barely accomplished anything, but that's really not why I came here. Anyone who thinks the war isn't morally wrong on the basic level of telling people what they can and can't put in their body should google news "war on drugs" to see thousands of articles going in depth on all the pain and suffering its brought on (nobody writes about why we should continue the drug war, literally no one). Or watch Breaking the Taboo, narrated by Morgan Freeman about ending the drug war, or The House I Live In which is a documentary about how the drug war ruins lives in America. I really think your on the wrong side of the issue here.

Not to say ending the prohibition might not incur some costs, but they would be so minor compared to what we endure under prohibition. Fighting a war against people willingly putting something in their body does not make sense.

I believe some sort of legalization of opiates should occur. Again, I didn't say it has to be heroin... from what I've read morphine is slightly less addictive so thats a possibility, but I'm not sure if that would make a difference.

Thanks again swimmingdancer, I can tell you have the same vision as me. Any more detail you'd like to go into I'd love to hear... or if you've already posted it somewhere just send me the link. And anything else you can think to add to a world without drug prohibition, like how to promote harm reduction, and influence people to try to get off of opiates without forcing them to really do anything. Obviously there wont be a "1 solution fits all" but I'm sure you've seen what does work for alot of people and what doesn't. Would you have been able to live a more productive life as an addict if you were given your maintenance doses for free? Like been able to hold down a job easier and such... I've read reports of doctors being addicted to morphine and having stellar careers (as long as they have brown eyes to hide their pupils). This seems to me to be an obvious thing to do, perhaps limiting addicts to low maintenance doses.. what are your thoughts?